Rejecting the faith...in part

[Sair]

This is a question that I’ve occasionally considered, and one that holds considerable significance for me, since it relates quite strongly to my own journey away from Christian faith.

I’ve seen it mentioned, often in passing, on other threads that some people who identify - and genuinely consider themselves - as Catholic (or, presumably, other denominations/faiths as well) still disagree with some of the doctrines of their particular religion, some of which may be quite fundamental.

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Sorry, can’t help you there. I have no issue with any of the church’s teachings that I’m aware of.

I do have a question though. What disagreements led you to abandon the faith?

 

[Gorgias]

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

I can’t say I speak for any who disagree with the Church but retain the name ‘Catholic’, since that’s not my experience.

From a purely doctrinal perspective, though, I’d say that this is an accurate portrayal. Once baptized, you can’t “undo” baptism; that is, once a Catholic, always a Catholic. Now, it is possible to fall away from the practice of the faith – so, while I would assert that you can’t say “I’m not Catholic anymore”, you can accurately say, “I don’t believe in Catholicism anymore” or “I’m not a practicing Catholic anymore”…

 

[Don_Jackson]

I think too often we equate “the faith” with canon law, dogma, precepts, etc., instead of with Christianity.

I have several disagreements with the Church, but still consider myself to be very Catholic.

My contention is, disagreement with the Church is not an issue, acting out that disagreement is.

For instance:

I disagree that not attending Mass on every Sunday is a sin. I do, however, attend Mass on every Sunday (or Saturday vigil if Sunday is a problem). But I do not see attendance at Sunday Mass as an OBLIGATION, I rather see it as a privilege.

Again, while I would not act out against the precepts or laws of the church, I do not allows agree with them. In many cases, they remind me of the hundreds of man made laws that the Pharisees, although well intended, burdened their own people with.

I agree with my Lord who says his yoke is light!

Peace and all good!

 

[robwar]

This is a question that I’ve occasionally considered, and one that holds considerable significance for me, since it relates quite strongly to my own journey away from Christian faith.

I’ve seen it mentioned, often in passing, on other threads that some people who identify - and genuinely consider themselves - as Catholic (or, presumably, other denominations/faiths as well) still disagree with some of the doctrines of their particular religion, some of which may be quite fundamental.

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

concerning the things that you disagree with, have you studied not just what the church teaching is but why? Since there are things you disagree with, have you:

1. prayed for more understanding and help to understand and/or agree with
2. made an effort to study and learn and listen to why the Church may teach this.
   You need to give yourself time to learn and understand, it is a journey and all of us are at different levels on that journey. Give yourself some time instead of just thinking “i don’t agree or believe in this and that is the end”. You are in my prayers. Pray for knowledge and understanding.

 

[interestedman]

This is a question that I’ve occasionally considered, and one that holds considerable significance for me, since it relates quite strongly to my own journey away from Christian faith.

I’ve seen it mentioned, often in passing, on other threads that some people who identify - and genuinely consider themselves - as Catholic (or, presumably, other denominations/faiths as well) still disagree with some of the doctrines of their particular religion, some of which may be quite fundamental.

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

I think that there are a LOT of Catholics that disagree with fundamental teachings of the church. In fact I would say that most people that identify themselves as Catholic don’t agree with some fundamental teachings. I read a poll that said that more than half of Catholics support gay marriage.

I think that there are a few reasons why these people still identify themselves as Catholic. One is tradition. My friend one time told me that his views aligned more with certain protestant churches but would never become a protestant because his “grandfather would turn in his grave.” Another reason why people stick with Catholicism despite disagreeing with the church is because it is their best option. They think “well I disagree with some teachings, but I agree with most of it and it is the best fit for me.”

So those are really the two reasons people stick with Catholicism even though they have problems with some of the teachings.

 

[babs57]

I would have to agree with Don that disagreeing with certain doctrines is different than disobeying those laws that the church puts into effect because of them.

It has been my experience (in my LONG journey back home) that every doctrine that I used to disagree with, (all of those that led me away from the church in the first place), now that I have studied and understand them, I agree with.

These were such diverse topics as the necessity of going to Mass, to birth control. In both of these instances, (especially the birth control issue), I am now dealing with some very profound regret. If I had let go of my arrogance, and put some trust in (and respect for) the magisterium (and 2000 years of some of the greatest minds and holiest people that have ever lived IMHO), well… I certainly wouldn’t feel so stupid now.!

 

[St_Francis]

I would have to agree with Don that disagreeing with certain doctrines is different than disobeying those laws that the church puts into effect because of them.

It has been my experience (in my LONG journey back home) that every doctrine that I used to disagree with, (all of those that led me away from the church in the first place), now that I have studied and understand them, I agree with.

These were such diverse topics as the necessity of going to Mass, to birth control. In both of these instances, (especially the birth control issue), I am now dealing with some very profound regret. If I had let go of my arrogance, and put some trust in (and respect for) the magisterium (and 2000 years of some of the greatest minds and holiest people that have ever lived IMHO), well… I certainly wouldn’t feel so stupid now.!

Me too!

 

[St_Francis]

This is a question that I’ve occasionally considered, and one that holds considerable significance for me, since it relates quite strongly to my own journey away from Christian faith.

I’ve seen it mentioned, often in passing, on other threads that some people who identify - and genuinely consider themselves - as Catholic (or, presumably, other denominations/faiths as well) still disagree with some of the doctrines of their particular religion, some of which may be quite fundamental.

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

I think the answer is all of the above, and possibly a few more. Each person has his or her own reason for staying in the Church while disagreeing with some of the teachings. Some may stay for one of the reasons you listed, others for another, some a combination.

Some people are actually struggling with those teachings and will work their way through to understanding and acceptance.

 

[Gorgias]

I think that there are a LOT of Catholics that disagree with fundamental teachings of the church. In fact I would say that most people that identify themselves as Catholic don’t agree with some fundamental teachings. I read a poll that said that more than half of Catholics support gay marriage.

Hmm… I’m not certain that I would categorize the Church’s teachings on the morality of marriage as one of the core “fundamental teachings of the Church”. In terms of “core teachings”, I’d say that these would be more along the lines of: the Trinity; Jesus’ passion, death, & resurrection; the Eucharist; justification & salvation; and eschatology.

So, while I’d agree with you that there are many Catholics today who are poorly catechized, and as a result, disagree with what they think the Church is saying regarding some facets of its teachings, I’d disagree that there’s a fundamental disconnect between the Church and its members…

 

[ricmat]

This is a question that I’ve occasionally considered, and one that holds considerable significance for me, since it relates quite strongly to my own journey away from Christian faith.

I’ve seen it mentioned, often in passing, on other threads that some people who identify - and genuinely consider themselves - as Catholic (or, presumably, other denominations/faiths as well) still disagree with some of the doctrines of their particular religion, some of which may be quite fundamental.

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

In summary, here’s the way I think about it

God is infinitely smarter than I am.
God loves me more than I love myself.
God tells us what to do, for our own good. And left us a living church to keep us up to date.
God gave us free will so that we can freely choose to do good, rather than being forced.

If I hear something that the church teaches, and disagree with it, I figure it’s because:
I’m not as smart as God.
I don’t love myself as much as God does.
I don’t understand what the teaching says or means. And maybe I never can.

So I choose to absolutely trust in God’s goodness, and accept it, and obey the teaching even though I don’t understand it. Rather then tell God that he’s wrong.

The most fundamental sin at the beginning of time was a sin of disobedience, due to a lack of trust in God’s goodness.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

From a purely doctrinal perspective, though, I’d say that this is an accurate portrayal. Once baptized, you can’t “undo” baptism; that is, once a Catholic, always a Catholic.

But doesn’t that dilute what it means to be a Catholic? From the outside looking it to me the implications of the above is that it would dilute the meaning of “Catholic” to referring to any one that had certain Catholic experiences regardless of where the person is in life now or what religion/faith she currently embraces.

 

[dmelosi]

But doesn’t that dilute what it means to be a Catholic? From the outside looking it to me the implications of the above is that it would dilute the meaning of “Catholic” to referring to any one that had certain Catholic experiences regardless of where the person is in life now or what religion/faith she currently embraces.

Perhaps now you might understand what it means to be on a spiritual journey and that the more you understand and know the our faith, the more obligated you are to follow it. Everyone is in a different place in their spiritual journey. We believe that the effort a person makes in following their faith to the best of their ability is how they are judged. Many people use the best of their ability part to excuse how they follow their faith.

 

[Gorgias]

But doesn’t that dilute what it means to be a Catholic? From the outside looking it to me the implications of the above is that it would dilute the meaning of “Catholic” to referring to any one that had certain Catholic experiences regardless of where the person is in life now or what religion/faith she currently embraces.

I don’t think so. Being Catholic doesn’t mean “I’ve got everything figured out”, or even “I’m a good little religious robot”; rather, it means “I find value and truth in the Church, and am willing to grow in my faith” (even if this willingness is implicit and not explicitly stated – a “this is stupid!” made in the context of sticking around is very different than a “this is stupid” made in the context of walking away from the Church)…!

 

[J_Peterson]

I think the answer is all of the above, and possibly a few more. Each person has his or her own reason for staying in the Church while disagreeing with some of the teachings. Some may stay for one of the reasons you listed, others for another, some a combination.

Some people are actually struggling with those teachings and will work their way through to understanding and acceptance.

Struggle is the key word here. As long as we struggle we know God is with us (even if we constantly fall). I disagree here and there but there is no replacement for the Church. The Eucharist, confession, the mystical tradition, Mary, and better books ( ) are a few of the reasons I stay with the Church. I am constantly drawn deeper, even if I’m kicking and resisting now and again.

I prayed about the things I don’t agree with or understand because I have thought about leaving a couple times. I believe God’s answer came to me while praying the rosary one evening: “Be still and know that I am God”

 

[JDaniel]

I think too often we equate “the faith” with canon law, dogma, precepts, etc., instead of with Christianity.

I have several disagreements with the Church, but still consider myself to be very Catholic.

My contention is, disagreement with the Church is not an issue, acting out that disagreement is.

For instance:

I disagree that not attending Mass on every Sunday is a sin. I do, however, attend Mass on every Sunday (or Saturday vigil if Sunday is a problem). But I do not see attendance at Sunday Mass as an OBLIGATION, I rather see it as a privilege.

Don:

So . . . when one of the Ten Commandments was “Remember, keep holy the Sabbath,” God didn’t really mean that. Instead, what he meant was, “Remember, if you, according to your exquisite whim, want to keep holy the Sabbath,” then do so. Otherwise, don’t worry about it?

(I can’t say that I’ve never embraced that, because I have. Much to my chagrin.)

 

[Gorgias]

But doesn’t that dilute what it means to be a Catholic?

One other thing just occurred to me: if it weren’t this way, then that would dilute what it means to be baptized…!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

One other thing just occurred to me: if it weren’t this way, then that would dilute what it means to be baptized…!

Perhaps now you might understand what it means to be on a spiritual journey and that the more you understand and know the our faith…]

Thanks for the explanations!

 

[Sair]

I don’t think so. Being Catholic doesn’t mean “I’ve got everything figured out”, or even “I’m a good little religious robot”; rather, it means “I find value and truth in the Church, and am willing to grow in my faith” (even if this willingness is implicit and not explicitly stated – a “this is stupid!” made in the context of sticking around is very different than a “this is stupid” made in the context of walking away from the Church)…!

I think that an adult and considered approach to any faith or philosophy of life involves the kind of commitment you mention - a willingness to explore and embrace, even if you find yourself questioning particular ideas or practices. Even if you take to a certain teaching with a good deal of scepticism, it’s still possible to say to yourself, “Well, perhaps if I make an honest attempt to follow this, it will make more sense than it does at face value.”

 

[fhansen]

One of the major reasons I left the Church is that I could not justify claiming to be a Catholic when I deeply disagreed with some of the specific teachings of the faith.

That’s why I left as a youth.

My question, then, is: Why do those who openly disagree with certain doctrines persist in identifying themselves as Catholic, or as whatever faith they claim? Is it a matter of tradition, family, identity, lack of awareness of the centrality or the implications of certain teachings, or even some deeply-held desire to actually make the content of the faith conform to their own ideas? Or something else entirely?

I think all of the above are reasons some people stay. I never loved being Catholic for the sake of being Catholic. If it sounds a bit ironic, there seem to be lots of traditional conservatives and traditional liberals out there, or maybe just in-betweeners. But I could never bother with something as radical as faith unless I truly believed, which came about after much searching.