Rejecting the Motu Proprio....at Steubenville?

  • Thread starter Thread starter DustinsDad
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I was accepted (and almost went) to FUS… I have to say I am glad I am not there to witness this mess…

😦
 
As a current student, I want to reiterate the fact that at FUS there is always a very reverent attitude in the Mass, a solemn demeanor, and very rarely does anybody step outside the rubrics–and it is always a student who ‘doesn’t know any better,’ not the school, who is the perpetrator.

I have learned a great deal since being at FUS. I used to hold hands during the Our Father (my parish at home practices this, unfortunately, and I was raised to do it), but I learned from FUS Masses that this is wrong. I learned that ‘rock music’ is not the proper music to have in the Liturgy, and I’ve learned a great deal more.

Unfortunately, when people hear “Charismatic,” they immediately think “abuse”…this is not the case. I am not myself a Charismatic Catholic, but I find nothing offensive in the FUS Masses. I will admit that there are some parishes that claim to be Charismatic, and sing in tongues during the consecration, as well as many other abuses. This, however, is most certainly not the case at Franciscan. While some students come from poorly catechized backgrounds, the University quickly teaches them the rubrics. If they don’t learn by the time they graduate, they either chose to stay ignorant or are just plain oblivious. Sad either way, but not the school’s fault.

Peace in Christ,
 
KephasAugustine said:
As a current student, I want to reiterate the fact that at FUS there is always a very reverent attitude in the Mass, a solemn demeanor, and very rarely does anybody step outside the rubrics–and it is always a student who ‘doesn’t know any better,’ not the school, who is the perpetrator.

I have learned a great deal since being at FUS. I used to hold hands during the Our Father (my parish at home practices this, unfortunately, and I was raised to do it), but I learned from FUS Masses that this is wrong. I learned that ‘rock music’ is not the proper music to have in the Liturgy, and I’ve learned a great deal more.

Unfortunately, when people hear “Charismatic,” they immediately think “abuse”…this is not the case. I am not myself a Charismatic Catholic, but I find nothing offensive in the FUS Masses. I will admit that there are some parishes that claim to be Charismatic, and sing in tongues during the consecration, as well as many other abuses. This, however, is most certainly not the case at Franciscan. While some students come from poorly catechized backgrounds, the University quickly teaches them the rubrics. If they don’t learn by the time they graduate, they either chose to stay ignorant or are just plain oblivious. Sad either way, but not the school’s fault.

Peace in Christ,
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying this point.

Also thanks for indicating that some abuses might take place in other settings. I was very surprised to hear other posters dismiss the Mass offered at all charismatic sites as quite unacceptable. I’ve never attended one but I tend to think of charismatics as very devout people and I’d be saddened to think abuses are rampant among them.
 
Is there a difference between Charismatics and those who believe in having charismatic elements during mass?
 
KephasAugustine said:
What do you mean by “Charismatic elements?”
Click to expand...
I was speculating as to whether there are Catholics who subscribe to Charismatic beliefs (e.g., speaking in tongues, prophesy, healing), but would object to such things being done during mass.
 
As a former student of FUS as well there are some things that I am not really into (the Festivals of Praise) but attending Franciscan I never felt that there was a lack of respect for the Church.

There are other superb Theology professors there too besides just Dr. Hahn. Dr. Regis Martin is one of them. Fr. Bramwell used to be another.

I can’t imagine having a TLM in the chapel (which is definitely unable to convert to being useful) or the gym. I would rather a million times over attend it at St. Peters where I could attend a TLM that was done in a correct way not in haphazard way. As a student I never had a problem finding a ride to St. Peters if I wanted to go to that mass, and now that the university is offering a shuttle it will be easier.
 
lucybeebee said:
I was speculating as to whether there are Catholics who subscribe to Charismatic beliefs (e.g., speaking in tongues, prophesy, healing), but would object to such things being done during mass.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I am one 🙂 I have witnessed speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, prophesy, and so forth. However, I do not feel these have a proper place in the Mass.

Somebody above mentioned Festivals of Praise, or “FOPs.” I raise my hands and stomp my feet singing praises to the Lamb just as much as the next Charismatic at these, and love the sporadic harmonies of various people singing in tongues (though I have not been given this gift). I have been slain in the Spirit on one occasion. However, a FOP is for loud praise and expression of independent worship–the Liturgy is a very different thing. There should be a more solemn demeanor and a strict adherence to the rubrics set forth by Mother Church (as there is at FUS, save for the ignorant few).

I hope this clears some stuff up, and doesn’t confuse you further
 
The only thing that needs to be cleared up here is that the charismatic movement is taking on a focus in the Church and at this school which is taking people away from the Church. This protestant worship is blinding people to the truth.
 
I am wondering if this isn’t going to just have to play out as a bit of a waiting game.

Those that waited so long for the MP, might have to wait a little longer to have the TLM at all the locations and times they wish…

In the mean time, the mass at St. Peters and the shuttle thereto might be the easiest way to get the ball rolling. So long as it becomes known that the among the student body there is a “known quantity” of folks who wish for that liturgy, and they are observed faithfully attending, FUS will come around.

Five years ago, did any of us think we would be where we are today? A little prayer and patience may be in order.
 
Maybe the Holy Spirit is leading the people at Steubenville to build a church where any mass of the Catholic Church could be celebrated?
 
latinmass said:
this school which is taking people away from the Church.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure where you get off saying that.

FUS celebrates three Masses on weekdays, one on Saturday, and four on Sunday–ALL of these Masses adhere strictly to the rubrics of the Liturgy. The school is one of the top catechetical institutes in the world. Top theologians and catechists, and Pope John Paul II himself have endorsed and spoken fondly of the school. Taking people away from the Church? Hardly.

In the Peace of Christ,
 
KephasAugustine said:
I’m not sure where you get off saying that.

FUS celebrates three Masses on weekdays, one on Saturday, and four on Sunday–ALL of these Masses adhere strictly to the rubrics of the Liturgy. The school is one of the top catechetical institutes in the world. Top theologians and catechists, and Pope John Paul II himself have endorsed and spoken fondly of the school. Taking people away from the Church? Hardly.

In the Peace of Christ,
Click to expand...
I cannot personally speak of the school itself, but I have some experience around the Charismatic movement, and it certainly does seem to lead away from the Church. Most of the people I have known who have been involved in even a moderately serious manner with it have been extremely vocal about the relative non-importance of Catholicism and the traditions of that faith, and usually speak very defensively about the relative importance of other traditions. It is the Charismatics I know who insist on singing entirely Protestant music, as it is more “relevant” or “worshipful.” They regularly complain about the “dry” Catholic Masses and contrast them with the “spirit-filled” Protestant praise fests, and in response insist on massive liturgical abuse in order to approximate that sensation.

The constant focus on non-catholic spirituality and theology definitely lead people away from the Church in the sense that they distract from the truth and encourage spiritual attention outside of her. Fundamentally, this is a protestant spiritual movement, and a minority one at that, which has been grafted into the Church in a very artificial way. And while it is going on, to a degree, within the Church itself, it simply plants a seed of dissent and discomfort with the true traditions of the faith. And in the time I have been exposed to this movement, I have met nobody who has been brought to a deeper life in the Church by it, except sometimes by finally being so repulsed by it as to search for the truth elsewhere.

Patrick
 
cothrige said:
I cannot personally speak of the school itself, but I have some experience around the Charismatic movement, and it certainly does seem to lead away from the Church. Most of the people I have known who have been involved in even a moderately serious manner with it have been extremely vocal about the relative non-importance of Catholicism and the traditions of that faith, and usually speak very defensively about the relative importance of other traditions. It is the Charismatics I know who insist on singing entirely Protestant music, as it is more “relevant” or “worshipful.” They regularly complain about the “dry” Catholic Masses and contrast them with the “spirit-filled” Protestant praise fests, and in response insist on massive liturgical abuse in order to approximate that sensation.

The constant focus on non-catholic spirituality and theology definitely lead people away from the Church in the sense that they distract from the truth and encourage spiritual attention outside of her. Fundamentally, this is a protestant spiritual movement, and a minority one at that, which has been grafted into the Church in a very artificial way. And while it is going on, to a degree, within the Church itself, it simply plants a seed of dissent and discomfort with the true traditions of the faith. And in the time I have been exposed to this movement, I have met nobody who has been brought to a deeper life in the Church by it, except sometimes by finally being so repulsed by it as to search for the truth elsewhere.

Patrick
Click to expand...
And I wonder how much the dropping of so many traditions after Vatican II helped encourage people to look to other movements and/or spiritualities to compensate. Aftter all, man cannot live on correct doctrine alone, but needs the depth and warmth of liturgical and other traditions to help bond his soul to the Church. And to enable him to grow in Christ.
 
catharina said:
Thanks for clarifying this point.

Also thanks for indicating that some abuses might take place in other settings. I was very surprised to hear other posters dismiss the Mass offered at all charismatic sites as quite unacceptable. I’ve never attended one but I tend to think of charismatics as very devout people and I’d be saddened to think abuses are rampant among them.
Click to expand...
Then be saddened because there are, Believe me there are.
 
Jerry-Jet said:
Maybe the Holy Spirit is leading the people at Steubenville to build a church where any mass of the Catholic Church could be celebrated?
Click to expand...
Well, point of fact is Steubenville has such a church, it is St. Peter’s. FUS on the other hand does not. My daughter, a graduate of FUS says that there has been much talk of a new chapel being built. I just am unclear where that could be done the student body is almost exclusively people from far away so they almost all live on campus in the dorms. When my daughter was there they purchased a motel and turned it into the dorm for the seminarians.

RE: Charismatic being Protestant, we should bring this to a different thread but my understanding is it started way before Vat. 2. It was endorsed by more than one Pope too. Like any movement, it can be hijacked by some. My personal experience is that those involved are more into praise of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - they are very devoted to Mary and her Son (definitely not protestant). It is from them that I really learned the usage of “body, blood, soul and divinity” in the Eucharist (I just always said, “Jesus is fully present” without clarifying it, this just gave me words to explain to non-Catholics and uneducated Catholics that were clearer).

If the school, FUS, is drawing people away from HMC then explain why my daughter has several friends who went there for the educational program and came out as converts (not Charismatics btw, just orthodox Catholics)? My daughter’s best friend from here joined her there for the education she could get and the fact that it is a small school compared to a State University. She went in fear that everyone would make fun of her because she wasn’t Catholic and that they would try to convert her, well they did but they used the method St. Francis is purported to advocate, “Preach always, use words when necessary”. In other words, actions is what got her asking questions and the students were able to answer them for her and, lo and behold, here she is now, an orthodox Catholic still learning her faith and asking me and her mil (the two most knowledgeable people she knows about the faith and if we can’t answer her we do send her to her Priest who will answer her) married to a practicing Catholic and pregnant with her second child (btw, they practice NFP and want lots of children!) She is not Charismatic nor is her husband but she is faithful.

Brenda V.
 
palmas85 said:
Then be saddened because there are, Believe me there are.
Click to expand...
I’d rather rejoice at what KephasAugustine has said:
"FUS celebrates three Masses on weekdays, one on Saturday, and four on Sunday–ALL of these Masses adhere strictly to the rubrics of the Liturgy. The school is one of the top catechetical institutes in the world. Top theologians and catechists, and Pope John Paul II himself have endorsed and spoken fondly of the school."
 
Brenda_V said:
Well, point of fact is Steubenville has such a church, it is St. Peter’s. FUS on the other hand does not. My daughter, a graduate of FUS says that there has been much talk of a new chapel being built. I just am unclear where that could be done the student body is almost exclusively people from far away so they almost all live on campus in the dorms. When my daughter was there they purchased a motel and turned it into the dorm for the seminarians.

RE: Charismatic being Protestant, we should bring this to a different thread but my understanding is it started way before Vat. 2. It was endorsed by more than one Pope too. Like any movement, it can be hijacked by some. My personal experience is that those involved are more into praise of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - they are very devoted to Mary and her Son (definitely not protestant). It is from them that I really learned the usage of “body, blood, soul and divinity” in the Eucharist (I just always said, “Jesus is fully present” without clarifying it, this just gave me words to explain to non-Catholics and uneducated Catholics that were clearer).

If the school, FUS, is drawing people away from HMC then explain why my daughter has several friends who went there for the educational program and came out as converts (not Charismatics btw, just orthodox Catholics)? My daughter’s best friend from here joined her there for the education she could get and the fact that it is a small school compared to a State University. She went in fear that everyone would make fun of her because she wasn’t Catholic and that they would try to convert her, well they did but they used the method St. Francis is purported to advocate, “Preach always, use words when necessary”. In other words, actions is what got her asking questions and the students were able to answer them for her and, lo and behold, here she is now, an orthodox Catholic still learning her faith and asking me and her mil (the two most knowledgeable people she knows about the faith and if we can’t answer her we do send her to her Priest who will answer her) married to a practicing Catholic and pregnant with her second child (btw, they practice NFP and want lots of children!) She is not Charismatic nor is her husband but she is faithful.

Brenda V.
Click to expand...
Beautiful post, Brenda. I’m glad to be able to repeat it here!
 
For all who think that Franciscan should have a TLM on campus and want to see a new church, perhaps y’all should donate some funds to the school to build one.

I knew many devout Catholics while attending Franciscan and I really hate these threads that imply that Fransiscan isn’t in line with the Church which couldn’t be farther from the truth.
 
maria29 said:
For all who think that Franciscan should have a TLM on campus and want to see a new church, perhaps y’all should donate some funds to the school to build one.
Click to expand...
:yup:
maria29 said:
I knew many devout Catholics while attending Franciscan and I really hate these threads that imply that Fransiscan isn’t in line with the Church which couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Click to expand...
I can only speak from second hand on this as it was my daughter, and much of our money, went to Franciscan.😛

My daughter also gets upset when she sees some of these posts and actually encouraged me to write the one I did. It took me two days and many deleted posts before I finally wrote and sent it.

Brenda V.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top