Hi catharina,
Brennan, thanks for the clarification - and naturally, I still disagree. It might have been Father’s experience in surveying the scene of “Pentecostalism” in the Church (a term, frankly, that is unfamiliar to me) but I do think it has to remain clear that the Charismatic movement within the RC Church is quite legitimate. That there can be errors, wrong adaptations and excesses among Charismatics is as certain as the fact that there can be the same among those who adhere to NO or TLM Masses.
I don’t know that Fr. Hardon would call the charismatic movement illegitimate. He just seems to think that overall the charismatic movement will not be good for the Church, simply because it tends to replace traditional mysticism with a spirituality colored by Pentecostalism (see his article for an explanation of Pentecostalism). And he gives reasons why people may be turning to a different spirituality (one reason being that the traditional means of sanctification were almost entirely dropped after Vatican II).
Yes it is. And on the surface of what you are saying I totally agree with you. However I want to make it clear that I doubt the authenticity of “speaking in tongues” but how “speaking in tongues” is being currently applied to “babel talk” for lack of a better word.
Brennan, I do understand the term Pentecostalism, simply I’d never heard it used in reference to any movement within the Catholic Church. I appreciate your thoughts. Thanks for sharing them.
Really, I can do no more than to quote Paul again:
There are two different kinds of “tongues” mentioned in the Bible; the kind that happened at Pentecost, with the Apostles being able to speak and understand every language of the whole world, and also the kind that is mentioned in I Corinthians 14, which is the “babble” kind; the language of the Angels. St. Paul is saying that this kind (the “babble” kind) should be reserved for private use, or at times when someone with the gift of interpretation can explain the meaning. Obiviously, it should never be used at Mass, and those who use it at Mass are not using this gift appropriately. But there is nothing the matter with using it as part of one’s private devotions, or in a gathering of likewise-gifted persons, where an interpretation can be given of this language, or where it can be used in kind of a devotional manner, in a way that is appropriate.
Exactly - and St. Paul makes it very clear. We cannot negate something as “not a gift” when we have no idea if it is one or not. Thank you so much for adding to this exchange.
Hi catharina,
Maybe you’re correct in your guess. Since I was raised with awareness of it, maybe I tend to think such learning within the Church is free for the taking if one’s motivated to learn about it.
I personally don’t think the charismatic movement is nearly as prominent in the Catholic Church as it was when it began. I don’t have the statistics, but a few things to make note of:
I think this “question” has been answered as the local parish that the University is part of offers the Mass in the Extraordinary Form.
Yes.
A TLM or a Latin Novus Ordo? There is a big difference. The last Latin mass on campus was a Latin NO.Oh and PS. Since everyone is so interested, there is a TLM on the FUS campus today at 4PM. It will be packed. Like last time. Like every time.
Someone told me TLM, and that’s all I’ve heard. The person in question would know the difference. Still, the school does do LNO, and maybe the person was mistaken. I guess I’ll find out at 4.
I would be shocked if it were a TLM. The university has never offered a TLM on campus (at least since the new mass was promulgated), and those in charge have patently refused in writing to allow one. There is no announcement on their website, no announcement in any of the Facebook groups dedicated to bringing the TLM to campus, and I have heard no one mention it.