Relationship and sin, what to do?

[strugglingalong]

Rom 6:1-14. Read it, pray it, meditate on it. Read commentaries on it. The key to overcoming habitual sin is realizing who you are.

JSA

Amen, blackrobe. Amen.

I think for all of us, to overcome sin, we need to know who we are in Christ - that we’re children of God, reborn, renewed, no longer having to live under the chains of sin and death, serving satan. We are the beloved of God, Who loves us and wants to give us good gifts in His grace. Christ, the Victor, is for us!

“For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.”

Each day is a new day to take up our cross and follow Christ, to live in Him and to allow Him to live in us; a new day to live is the new creation and as a true, genuine child of the living God.

Thank you! I am going to reflect on it and use it as meditation for prayer.

Christ’s peace to you.

 

[rwoehmke]

From the tenor of your posts I am concluding that you are an idealistic young man who believes with God’s grace you can prevail against sin. You can, but one needs to recognize that good intentions and ideals are not enough. Indeed the “spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” In addition to prayer and the sacraments you must take action. God cannot help you unless you do something to radically change the dynamics of your relationship. If you aren’t going to break up for a while you absolutely must never allow yourselves to be alone together in private places or say in a dark theater. Like a person addicted to masturbation you have both become addicted to sexual acts that may not be allowed even in marriage. It is a bondage and slavery to sin which will not be easily overcome. You are not strange. You are not angels. You are human and must act accordingly

 

[jrabs]

I would agree accept…he has only spoke with me once, for one hour and has only spoken with my girlfriend twice, for a total of maybe 3 hours. How well can one know someone in 1-4 hours? He hasn’t been our spiritual director for long.

I realize through your posts that you were not keen on what your Spiritual Adviser suggested. You listened, and heard, though do not completely “buy” into what he said because he has no history with you.

Perhaps he does not need history as you think. I am just suggesting that maybe he is used to counseling broken relationships, difficult marriages, engaged couples that have difficulties - and from what he hears in your’s, he can extrapolate your potential future happiness.

Who’s to know what will happen in the future? But please do not discount the advice this man has provided and the insight he has given you. He may see or hear things based on your limited contact that you cannot clearly see.

This may be the blessing you have been waiting for - but just cannot see it yet.

This is not really the time to shop for an opinion that you favor. Like shopping for a Spiritual Adviser until he tells you what you want to hear.

God does work in odd ways that we cannot understand. Listen and let the Spirit have a chance to work.

 

[strugglingalong]

I realize through your posts that you were not keen on what your Spiritual Adviser suggested. You listened, and heard, though do not completely “buy” into what he said because he has no history with you.

Perhaps he does not need history as you think. I am just suggesting that maybe he is used to counseling broken relationships, difficult marriages, engaged couples that have difficulties - and from what he hears in your’s, he can extrapolate your potential future happiness.

Who’s to know what will happen in the future? But please do not discount the advice this man has provided and the insight he has given you. He may see or hear things based on your limited contact that you cannot clearly see.

This may be the blessing you have been waiting for - but just cannot see it yet.

This is not really the time to shop for an opinion that you favor. Like shopping for a Spiritual Adviser until he tells you what you want to hear.

God does work in odd ways that we cannot understand. Listen and let the Spirit have a chance to work.

I’m not shopping for an opinion I like. I was soliciting feedback and opinions of others to see what other Catholics think. I have my own heart and mind and will to choose.

And, as I said, he can’t know too well how to apply it to us since he doesn’t know us that well. How can someone know whether you can change or not after a few hours? Maybe. Maybe not.

Christ’s peace to you.

 

[strugglingalong]

From the tenor of your posts I am concluding that you are an idealistic young man who believes with God’s grace you can prevail against sin. You can, but one needs to recognize that good intentions and ideals are not enough. Indeed the “spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.” In addition to prayer and the sacraments you must take action. God cannot help you unless you do something to radically change the dynamics of your relationship. If you aren’t going to break up for a while you absolutely must never allow yourselves to be alone together in private places or say in a dark theater. Like a person addicted to masturbation you have both become addicted to sexual acts that may not be allowed even in marriage. It is a bondage and slavery to sin which will not be easily overcome. You are not strange. You are not angels. You are human and must act accordingly

Thank you. I agree. Notice that above, numerous times, I stated that we’d have to make radical changes in the way we live our relationship. I’ve never denied it and in fact I know it is a major thing that would have to occur. I am idealistic and hopeful, yet I know I am responsible. I must change. My life must change.

I agree. Thank you for the encouragement to change.

Christ’s peace to you.

 

[jrabs]

I’m not shopping for an opinion I like.

And, as I said, he can’t know too well how to apply it to us since he doesn’t know us that well. How can someone know whether you can change or not after a few hours? Maybe. Maybe not.

Christ’s peace to you.

I apologize for suggesting you where going to shop for an opinion you favored. You did mention St Theresa of Jesus as your example of someone having multiple spiritual advisers.

However let’s not over look the more important factor that possibly he has seen and counseled many many people and relationships to be able to pick out commonalities and problematic behavior, etc. It’s the same as a priest counseling a married couple - he does not need to be married to know how to guide this couple.

Just because the adviser has no in-depth history with you does not mean his words don’t have validity.

 

[Norseman82]

I know if we stayed together it means radical changes in our relationship: not spending time alone in private areas, not showing much physical affection, our prayer lives need to be really strong and vibrant, sacramental life, etc. I’m willing to do anything to be holy and pleasing to God out of love for Him.

Look at it another way. You would have to make changes whether you stay with her or break up with her and date someone else.

Sure, we expect God to speak through our spiritual director yet he is fallible. Not everything he says or counsels is the definitive decision and words of God to us. Thus many saints have said a bad spiritual director is dangerous. St. Teresa of Jesus had a few spiritual directors until she had a good one. .

There is an advantage to having more than one advisor, especially if they are from differnet orders. If multiple advisors all come to the same conclusion, then in all likelihood what they are saying is true. It’s like going to a different doctor for a “second opinion”.

One thing I would add: when seeking/discerning “God’s will”, please realize that God gave us free will (see Sirach 15), so don’t expect God to micromanage every decision you make, otherwise you will be causing traffic problems when you stop your car in order to pray a novena on whether to take the express lanes or the locals. Concentrate first on the “avoiding sin” aspect of God’s will - which I’m sure is 99% of the battle for all of us anyway!

 

[FaithHopeLove7]

It sounds to me like you are trying to find people who will tell you what you want to hear (I know you said you’re not shopping, but in situations like this everyone wants to find those who will reassure us and tell us what makes us feel better). Not all couples who have habits of habitual sexual sin need to break up (although MOST should), but if you truely want to do “whatever it takes” you should listen to your spiritual director. At least for the time being. I’m not saying that God won’t lead you back to each other but for the sake of your souls right now, you should not be together. Sexual sin is very harmful to souls, and the most beautiful part is that you clearly want to rid your life of this. Any act of sexual impurity before marriage is not an act of love. If you love this girl you should sacrifice your desire to be with her for the sake of your souls. I know this is exactly what you do NOT want to do. You want to stay with her and fix these problems together. But a true lover will sacrifice his own desires, for his salvation’s sake, for his love’s sake, and for the good of whatever relationship you may have together in the future, and work to heal these problems ON HIS OWN. You said it was habitual, so I am inclined to believe this has happened more than one or two times. For that reason, because it keeps happening, you are not good for each other. I know you’re probably thinking “but we are so good for each other,” but because you continually put each other’s souls at risk, that one flaw in an otherwise perfect relationship is worth separation. I’m sorry if my reply doesn’t make you happy. It is a JOY, no matter how awful you are feeling, to see a young man willing to give up the woman he loves in order to defeat satan at his game of impurity. Our society is penetrated from the inside out with sexual immorality, and though we may fall, our victory is in not giving in. God bless you.

 

[lcalise]

Not all couples who have habits of habitual sexual sin need to break up (although MOST should), but if you truely want to do “whatever it takes” you should listen to your spiritual director.

Wow, you must have been in a very unique situation to be so sure of yourself with that statement. I mean, I get the whole “avoid the near occasion of sin”, but come on! What’s going to happen with the next relationship? I mean, if a girl isn’t sexually attractive to you (the only sure fire way to not be tempted) what’s the point in being in a relationship at all?

Any act of sexual impurity before marriage is not an act of love.

Objectively, that’s true. But just because you engage in impure acts doesn’t mean you do not love the person! Any real love has passion… impure acts are just a misdirected or perverted passion. Granted, the further entrenched you are in sexual sin the harder it is for you to discern real love, but I doub any one here has yet to fully master his passions.

But a true lover will sacrifice his own desires, for his salvation’s sake, for his love’s sake, and for the good of whatever relationship you may have together in the future, and work to heal these problems ON HIS OWN.

What??? Dude, one of the points of a loving relationship (even pre-marriage) is to learn how to help eachother through troubles. And what if he does go out and fix himself “on his own”. What of her? Doesn’t he have some obligation to help her through a struggle? And how can you tell if you’ve healed yourself if you never put yourself in a situation to know?

Ok, I’m not in a pleasant mood to begin with, so to the poster of this message, I’m sorry if I’m hard on you. But, honestly, I think that post was sanctimonius garbage. Perhaps you were lucky enough to be raised with an unshakable moral fiber, find someone with that same moral fiber, and have a strong enough will to never fall into temptation. Praise God, if that’s the case! For the rest of us, that situation doesn’t present itself too often.

To the original poster, I’ve been there. Personally, no matter what age you are, often that kind of sin is just a manifestation of immaturity, especially since you’re not going “all the way”. I know that’s what it was for us. We had just an incredible chemistry (physical, emotional, spiritual) and, not being mature in our lives or our faith, it’s so easy to let your passions take over. Self-mastery is a life long journey, so don’t get too down on yourself if it’s a struggle. We got to a point where we could break that habit (and yes, it’s before marriage/sex )

Now, having said that, you have to find that deep sense of regret. Avoiding the locations, situations, etc. is all fine and good, but without that deep felt remorse, it’s just a shallow patch job. You need the other person to inspire you to want to do right spiritually by them. Granted, that desire doesn’t always translate into action (it’s not a magic cure), but it absolutely has to be there. Let your desire to help the other person guide you and you’ll have a shot.

From my own experience, our relationship was the best thing in my life even while we were engaging in impure acts. But, had we never found out how to be pure, it would never have been this absolutely, totally and amazingly wonderful thing. Sexual sins before marriage is the equivalent of throwing a diamond in the mud. Sure, if you pick it up, you might be able to tell it’s a diamond (or not), but you’ll never be sure nor will you be able to appreciate its beauty until you scrape all that excess away. My two cents

 

[jrabs]

Wow, you must have been in a very unique situation to be so sure of yourself with that statement. I mean, I get the whole “avoid the near occasion of sin”, but come on! What’s going to happen with the next relationship?

Icalise, there is nothing outrageous about FaithHopeLove7’s statement. If the OP does not gain control (with the grace of God) of his sexual sins and venture on the path of purity, then the next relationship may also fall to the sin.

Objectively, that’s true. But just because you engage in impure acts doesn’t mean you do not love the person! Any real love has passion… impure acts are just a misdirected or perverted passion.

A chat with your priest would undoubtedly reveal the truth about love - genuine love and not lust. Genuine love means you desire and will assist in helping your loved ones get to heaven. Sexual sins are merely selfish in nature meant to satisfy the physical desires of man. That does not mean humans need to fall to those desires. We are called to be children of God and rise above our physical desires.

This is a battle between spirit and physical. The 2 are often competing and often in disagreement. It’s called a sacrifice.

Granted, the further entrenched you are in sexual sin the harder it is for you to discern real love, but I doubt any one here has yet to fully master his passions.

Yes, it is very hard to master - and we cannot do this on our own - but God supplies grace to those who seek it. And we can fail - however it is harder to fail when we are distancing ourselves from the situations that enable sexual sins.

And what if he does go out and fix himself “on his own”. And how can you tell if you’ve healed yourself if you never put yourself in a situation to know?

We are of little good to others when we are broken. Sometimes what is required is time alone to repair your own soul and get yourself back in check with God - to be able to hear God’s will. One cannot hear God’s will with excess noise.

Perhaps you were lucky enough to be raised with an unshakable moral fiber, find someone with that same moral fiber, and have a strong enough will to never fall into temptation. Praise God, if that’s the case! For the rest of us, that situation doesn’t present itself too often.

You see though, it can. None of us are better at it than everyone else. However some have taken the time to let God work and listen to His tiny little voice. God desires us to come to Him and He gives grace to so many.

Sexual sins before marriage is the equivalent of throwing a diamond in the mud.

Bad analogy. Potentially ending in hell is not equivalent to anything.

 

[Potato1]

Ok maybe I am the only one here that missed this. but are you using birth controll? You would risk a baby born out of wedlock before you would get married? because you want to appear holy. Wow. good luck with NFP later!! that requires some heavy duty self controll. Sounds like there is more than one character issue here.

 

[strugglingalong]

Ok maybe I am the only one here that missed this. but are you using birth controll? You would risk a baby born out of wedlock before you would get married? because you want to appear holy. Wow. good luck with NFP later!! that requires some heavy duty self controll. Sounds like there is more than one character issue here.

No, no birth control. We’d never use it and, as I said, we’re not actively engaging in intercourse.

Christ’s peace to you.

 

[strugglingalong]

There’ve been a few posts and I can’t reply to all the objections. There is one point I want to make, though.

I think there is a distinction between those raised in perfect Catholic families who have never done wrong and those who have not had that great upbringing. I wish I did! But my life has had alot of failures and sins. In high school I rebelled alot against God and wanted nothing to do with Him and did alot of bad. Thanks be to God He brought me back! I do think it makes a difference because some people who have had this sort of ideal upbringing are probably those who would advise me to break up with her instead of making changes to never do it again. It is entirely possible - and I can’t see a single reason why not - that I could end up in a different relationship, if I were to end this one, which could end up the same way. Then what? At some point I have to learn how to be chaste and pure in a relationship. As someone else pointed out, I’ll always be attracted to the woman I am with obviously. So the temptation will be there. I need to do what God is calling me to do and live my life in such a way so that I won’t do anything impure or otherwise, that is an offense against God as well as my girlfriend. I just don’t see how breaking up with solve it really. Maybe for this relationship but not necessarily for me.

As for the idea that some people think I am shopping for an opinion I like, so be it. I truly do think that even if everyone disagreed with me, and I truly was convicted that God was saying something else to be, I’d follow God. I am looking for counsel from active, faithful Catholics - not for someone else to make my decision. It is my decision, one which I will give an account to before God.

As Icalise said, I agree that just because someone may engage in sexually immoral acts - which, those acts, do not reveal love and they are lustful, selfish, not-loving acts - that does not mean there is no love in their hearts for each other. It may mean their love is yet immature or yet disordered, but I do think there can still be love even if lust has clouded it. Objective sexually immoral acts outside of marriage, which heinous and a tremendous offense to God, do not mean there is no love whatsoever between two people. And I do agree with all John Paul II says in L&R, by the way, so I agree these acts are not loving in themselves. But I think, outside of these acts, there can be love. But that love will be marred and contorted by the acts of lust. So it requires fleeing from the immoral acts so that the love can show itself and be pure and true. Actually I think John Paul II says something like this in L&R, that even while there is acts of sexual immorality it does not de facto show that no love exists at all between the persons, even though that act is NOT an act of love.

Oh well, enough for now. Thanks again to everyone for sharing their thoughts and convictions!

Christ’s peace to you all.