Relationship in the gutter.

[mayrag86]

Look, I am educated. I have read about religion. I do not think more reading will persuade me, and I think it would be a waste of time.

Our relationship is not only based on sex. As I have said, I am willing to cut out the sex. The reason I am reluctant has nothing to do with what I want, it has everything to do with what I believe she wants. I think she wants to have sex, and I am afraid she might take it the wrong way if I try to refuse her. I am not bragging about the sex, I am simply explaining why I think she enjoys it, and why I think it is making her happy.

And yes, I am her first lover, but she is not my first. It took some time before we had sex. We made sure it was based on love and genuin affection, and this made it so much better in my opinion. I am sure you would agree. This is also some of the reason I am reluctant to give it up, as she did make the decision to have sex before she lost her faith. It seems to me that it took a lot for her to give up her virginity, and she has talked about marriage. I do not want her to think I am rejecting her as her lover, because I am afraid she might think she made a mistake in sleeping with me in the sense that she might think I have been taking advantage of her. I have not. If I did, I would have pushed her, and I didn’t.

I might be wrong about the sex, and maybe I will cut it out after trying some other things.

I think you should talk to her openly about what you just said. Tell her that you now see that she was right in her beliefs and that you want to honor them, even if they are not yours so that would include cutting out the sex until you guys can get married. Patience is a big part of love so tell her that you will have all the patience in the world to wait for her and be chaste for her. If that isn’t romantic I don’t know what is.

 

[kfinstad]

… I am not a catholic. In fact, I’m an atheist/agnostic, … I think I’ve gradually won her over to my way of thinking, but unfortunatly, she has not adopted my positive way of thinking about a life without God. It seems she has lost faith, and not only in God, but in life as well.
… I feel that I have destroyed her, and that our relationship will be over. Part of the reason I fell in love with her was because she was full of life. … I have been thinking about trying to make her believe again, … Maybe this is the last chance for our relationship, … Any advice on this, or some other way to fix things, would be greatly appreciated.

You are looking at a problem, of something standing in the way of loving her, and it is atheism. She may not be looking at Atheism, as a problem standing in the way of loving you, but if she is understanding, that you are no longer loving her, because of Atheism, then she might look to you for an answer, about not only her happiness, but yours as well. You and she are to be admired for the intimacy the two of you have established, that has allowed such an occurrence of faith, to be challenged to such an extent, as to bow before whom is loved; now, love is remaining victorious. The brilliance of the move, may be up to you; however, love is what is guiding you. In whom, or what, will you place your trust, and in whom, or what, is she placing hers? The only weakness I find on your part, is in your lack of acceptance, of who she as a person, has been in your life. In whatever state you find her, now, though you find it unacceptable–it is encouraging, that you understand her. Read the Bible to her.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

The contraceptives may be making her depressed. They may be playing with her hormones. And they are also against the teachings of her church. Adding to the guilt. Wow. You’ve really made her do lots of bad things. Just to please you. By the way, women using contraceptives get pregnant all the time.

Do NOT marry her. You are not marriage material as you are now. And her family will not accept you as you are and it will be a disaster. You are both too young and too immature.

Adding one more mistake to the whole pile of mistakes will not fix this.

It’s not my moral code she’s worried about violating. It’s her own. The one HER family helped instill.

I’m not in this issue.

Stop sleeping with her. How many times do you have to be told this.

 

[Norseman82]

Look, if someone is emotionally invested in something to the degree my girlfriend obviosly were, although I didn’t know the extent of it at the time, it isn’t that strange that she is struggling with losing that. That has nothing to do with the truth of the claims she used to be emotionally invested in. Therefore, this has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. So I do not agree with your analysis of the issue.

Now you are making me want to get in the octagon with you.

Are you that blind to what YOU did to her? YOU, the paragon of “you can be happy without God?” YOU corrupt her, and you think it is strange? Did YOU not initially post of the negative consequences of what has happened. Are you that clueless? It is NOT strange at ALL!!! If you destroyed away an inheritance from a loved one, would you not be all depressed over it? What she has thrown away is her eternal inheritance.

Yes, she made a choice, but you are the tempter. You are the BAD COMPANION that served as the occasion of sin. You wanted advice on how to repair damage, we gave it to you, but you don’t like it and instead you seem to be washing your hands of the damage you have done.

I have to get to bed now and get up for work. I’m probably not the only one (liberanosamalo probably does too). I can only simply say a prayer tonight that the scales fall from your eyes.

 

[Persuader]

There you go again, measuring the world by your own emotions. I guess when you don’t have a God, your own feelings become your own changing, flawed determinant of what is good or bad. My view of you is based on the fact that you are a cliche and one that never ends well for the innocent girl taken in by the lies.

Just because we disagree about morals and the like doesn’t mean you’re a what? I never used the B word. But hey… deep down maybe you have a clue how this looks to the world that does follow a moral code other than what they want at the moment they want it.

When nations disagree about morals and the like, we end up with the Holocaust, genocide, forced migrations and forced famines. Morals matter. You just don’t like that some of us don’t like your code. Your code allows you to do whatever you want, apparently. And only when it makes YOU feel bad do you start worrying.

By the way, I don’t measure countries and their value by HDI indices or any other so-called relevant tests.

Christ said man does not live by bread alone. I don’t measure a man by his bank account or the car he drives either. But I do notice when he goes through people’s lives creating pain, sorrow, dissension, loss, depression and other things. Yes, you’re a human wrecking ball. The worst kind… you don’t destroy strangers. You destroy people you claim to love.

By the way, I’ve seen atheistic countries do that to the world… inflicting pain, damage, carnage, mass murder, famines…

Stop sleeping with her. Now. She might wake up and see you for the user you are who patiently manipulated her into bed. No, you didn’t force her. You persuaded her. Your name really is indicative of your whole attitude. You persuaded her to do many things that weren’t in her best interest. Like the serpent in the garden persuaded Eve to disobey God.

You’re smooth. Just like the snake in the garden.

I don’t want this to become a discussion about the nature of morality or how well atheistic contries are doing. Anyone with half a brain can see that the scandinavian contries, for example, takes care of it’s citizens in a much more humane way than the US, for example. And the clear evidence shows this.

However, that is not the issue here. The issue is how to make my gf happy, and if possible, make me happy too!

I didn’t manipualte her. You call me a cliche, even though you do not know me. You accuse me of just caring about my own feelings, and my own wishes, even though I have repeatedly said I am willing to let her go if that made her happy again. It seems to me, you are not reading what I am writing. You have just decided I am this type of person, and you want to condemn me for it. Is that the way of Jesus?

 

[mayrag86]

She is using contraceptives, so she will not get pregnant. I loved her, she loved me, we wanted each other, so we had sex. I think that is fine. It might be that she doesn’t, although I doubt it, and as I said I will think about giving up sex with her.

You say it would be fine if we were married. Does that mean you think I should propose? She might very well say yes, but I think we are a bit young.

If you think you’re too young for kids and/or marriage then you are too young for sex because that is the consequence of sex- birth control or not. Its a reality. I know countless women who were on birth control and it failed.

 

[monicatholic]

I’m reposting.

It seems to me that it took a lot for her to give up her virginity, and she has talked about marriage.

it took so much, she’s currently a depleted, despairing, depressed young woman. that’s how much it took. that’s how much it cost her. all of her faith, her relationship with her loving family, her peace of mind, her joy of living, her sense of hope.

the following capsulate what she lost when she lost her Faith-- if you believe these statements of faith, hope and love are insignificant to a person-- less important than say, heredity, sleep patterns, or diet-- then you are desperately WRONG. even if your girlfriend doesn’t know the precise words to these prayers, the sentiment has been burned into her heart through the astonishing grace of baptism, and through the powerful love of her family and their teaching and example.

this is what she gave up with her virginity, in order to more deeply bond with you. please read them carefully. are you worth it, Pursuader? no offense, P, but NOTHING is worth losing this. NOTHING. that’s why her heart is broken.

Act of Faith

O my God, I firmly believe
that you are one God in three divine Persons,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I believe that your divine Son became man
and died for our sins and that he will come
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe these and all the truths
which the Holy Catholic Church teaches
because you have revealed them
who are eternal truth and wisdom,
who can neither deceive nor be deceived.
In this faith I intend to live and die.Amen.

Act of Hope

O Lord God,
I hope by your grace for the pardon
of all my sins
and after life here to gain eternal happiness
because you have promised it
who are infinitely powerful, faithful, kind,
and merciful.
In this hope I intend to live and die.
Amen.

Act of Love

O Lord God, I love you above all things
and I love my neighbor for your sake
because you are the highest, infinite and perfect
good, worthy of all my love.
In this love I intend to live and die.
Amen.

pursuader, your responses to esp. liber, i.e., “what you think of me…” etc are frighteningly self centered. what Lib thinks of you is not the single point in any of his/her posts. what s/he thinks of what you’ve done-- based both on Lib’s interior faith and on the cold hard outcome-- that is the point.

the actions and the tragic outcome-- that is the point.

you may be educated sir, butcha ain’t smart if you can’t grasp that.

pursuader, if one is sorry for sinful actions, here is what she might say:

O my God,
I am heartily sorry for
having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins,
because I dread the loss of heaven,
and the pains of hell;
but most of all because
they offend Thee, my God,
Who are all good and
deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve,
with the help of Thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life.

here, i am asking Jesus Mother Mary to intercede for your girlfriends return to her faith. and for your conversion to Her Son, Jesus, Who is God become man for our sakes:

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Amen.

 

[Norseman82]

Is that the way of Jesus?

Jesus also said that anyone who scandalizes a little one would be better off to be thrown into the sea with a giant millstone around their neck to drown.

Jesus is not always the “fluffy duffy” God that modern secular culture makes Him out to be. He can be dead serious. Don’t trivialize that.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

I don’t want this to become a discussion about the nature of morality or how well atheistic contries are doing. Anyone with half a brain can see that the scandinavian contries, for example, takes care of it’s citizens in a much more humane way than the US, for example. And the clear evidence shows this.

However, that is not the issue here. The issue is how to make my gf happy, and if possible, make me happy too!

I didn’t manipualte her. You call me a cliche, even though you do not know me. You accuse me of just caring about my own feelings, and my own wishes, even though I have repeatedly said I am willing to let her go if that made her happy again. It seems to me, you are not reading what I am writing. You have just decided I am this type of person, and you want to condemn me for it. Is that the way of Jesus?

Don’t get me started on how well countries take care of their citizens and how “humane” creeping euthanasia is.

When there is no God, the measure of a human’s dignity becomes how productive they are or what they can do for you.

Kind of like your viewpoint put in practice on an individual level. Your view of morality is the only one that matters to you. Not the one she was raised in. So you trampled her boundaries, argued against her faith, won her over (your words) to your Godless point of view. But you did it nicely so you’re sure you’re a nice guy. But you disregarded her real dignity and freedom and in the end you aren’t really taking care of her. Kind of like some atheistic countries.

Because with you she’s less free, less happy and less connected to the things that mattered to her before you came along. You did not replace what she had with anything better than your own atheistic me-first point of view. You took something of value and replaced it with sex.

And because she doesn’t have anything to compare that (or you) to, she thinks she has something wonderful. She doesn’t know what sex is like in a marriage with a man truly committed to her, who shares her faith, who honors her family (not who takes their virgin daughter, deflowers her, and wonders why they’re hostile) and who honors her. Because really, deep down, she’s a girl who is shacking with a guy. And that is not how she was raised. She was raised to know that if a guy really valued her, he would marry her.

Yes, you are a cliche. Dime a dozen. Young guy with all the answers, comes across a virgin. Convinces her to give herself away. Doesn’t even know what he doesn’t know because his head is filled with what he thinks, not what is objective reality.

And what would Jesus say? He said, Woe to you who scandalize one of these little ones. It would have been better for that man had he never been born!

I have read every word you wrote. All I come away with is that you came to a forum full of Catholics who have tried to explain to you the seriousness of what you did to an innocent Catholic girl. And you are arguing with us that our views are not valid, and the only concession you will make is that if all your other ideas don’t work in fixing the problem you created, you might surrender the orgasms someday.

What an unselfish guy!

You did an injustice to the girl, to her family and to her future husband. Whether you think you did something wrong if you burn down someone’s house has no effect on whether it was wrong or whether they are homeless now.

We’ve pointed out over and over where you skidded off the rails. And you keep wanting to go down that path.

I have to work tomorrow (today). Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

 

[Persuader]

I’m reposting.

it took so much, she’s currently a depleted, despairing, depressed young woman. that’s how much it took. that’s how much it cost her. all of her faith, her relationship with her loving family, her peace of mind, her joy of living, her sense of hope.

the following capsulate what she lost when she lost her Faith-- if you believe these statements of faith, hope and love are insignificant to a person-- less important than say, heredity, sleep patterns, or diet-- then you are desperately WRONG. even if your girlfriend doesn’t know the precise words to these prayers, the sentiment has been burned into her heart through the astonishing grace of baptism, and through the powerful love of her family and their teaching and example.

this is what she gave up with her virginity, in order to more deeply bond with you. please read them carefully. are you worth it, Pursuader? no offense, P, but NOTHING is worth losing this. NOTHING. that’s why her heart is broken.

Act of Faith

O my God, I firmly believe
that you are one God in three divine Persons,
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
I believe that your divine Son became man
and died for our sins and that he will come
to judge the living and the dead.
I believe these and all the truths
which the Holy Catholic Church teaches
because you have revealed them
who are eternal truth and wisdom,
who can neither deceive nor be deceived.
In this faith I intend to live and die.Amen.

Act of Hope

O Lord God,
I hope by your grace for the pardon
of all my sins
and after life here to gain eternal happiness
because you have promised it
who are infinitely powerful, faithful, kind,
and merciful.
In this hope I intend to live and die.
Amen.

Act of Love

O Lord God, I love you above all things
and I love my neighbor for your sake
because you are the highest, infinite and perfect
good, worthy of all my love.
In this love I intend to live and die.
Amen.

pursuader, your responses to esp. liber, i.e., “what you think of me…” etc are frighteningly self centered. what Lib thinks of you is not the single point in any of his/her posts. what s/he thinks of what you’ve done-- based both on Lib’s interior faith and on the cold hard outcome-- that is the point.

the actions and the tragic outcome-- that is the point.

you may be educated sir, butcha ain’t smart if you can’t grasp that.

pursuader, if one is sorry for sinful actions, here is what she might say:

O my God,
I am heartily sorry for
having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins,
because I dread the loss of heaven,
and the pains of hell;
but most of all because
they offend Thee, my God,
Who are all good and
deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve,
with the help of Thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life.

here, i am asking Jesus Mother Mary to intercede for your girlfriends return to her faith. and for your conversion to Her Son, Jesus, Who is God become man for our sakes:

Remember, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession was left unaided.
Inspired by this confidence, I fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, my mother; to thee do I come, before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me.

Amen.

I understand that your views of me is not the single point, but I do not see why so many of you feel the need to condemn me. How is that helping me deal with this issue?

You are right, I do not know what it means to lose faith in God. I have never really believed it in the first place. I do, however, know what loss means, and I think you can see that if you read what I have said. I am willing to leave her alone. I am willing to stop having sex. If that were the only way to make her happy again, I would do it.

But I cannot change the past, and I cannot change the way I think and feel about what is right. I can’t change my fundamental views just because somebody tells me to, or because somebody wants me to. That would be a lie, and I am not a liar.

 

[Persuader]

I think you should talk to her openly about what you just said. Tell her that you now see that she was right in her beliefs and that you want to honor them, even if they are not yours so that would include cutting out the sex until you guys can get married. Patience is a big part of love so tell her that you will have all the patience in the world to wait for her and be chaste for her. If that isn’t romantic I don’t know what is.

I have told her that I think she should believe in God again, since not doing it makes her so unhappy. Problem is, she doesn’t. She have told me that she can’t force herself to believe in something she doesn’t, and I completely sympathize with that.

I will consider telling her these things about the sex, but as I said, this is something we both enjoy very much, so I will exhaust some other avenues first. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

You are a liar. You wrote the language of forever committed love on her with your body and you were not married and committed to her.

You don’t even seem to appreciate the gravity of sex beyond the pleasure you get out of it. Catholicism teaches that it is holy and a means of God’s grace and the way life is continued in the context of marriage. Outside of marriage it is a presumptive taking of something that doesn’t belong to you. It is a theft. It kills her relationship with God.

You won’t change your fundamental views just because someone wants you to. But you wanted your girlfriend to. What a one-sided relationship. So you’ve made her miserable. No, you can’t undo the past. We’re angry because you keep justifying what you’ve done, you show no humility or appreciation for what you’re doing to this girl, and you ignore the advice we’ve given you.

You don’t know what faith is. Not necessarily your fault. It’s a gift from God. The one you don’t believe in. It can also be a fragile thing. It can be weakened by life and struggle. We do not have the right to undermine or mess with someone’s faith and try to talk them out of their love of God. You didn’t value something so you treated it as if it wasn’t valuable in her life. Again, your whole life is measured by what YOU value and what YOU feel.

If certain Scandinavian countries built cars based on what a mechanic FELT or BELIEVED, and not by objective standards of physics and design, no one would buy them.

We Catholics live by objective standards that keep us from conducting our lives based on feelings at a particular moment. You took your girlfriend from that into a sinful life with you based on your emotions and her emotions. And now her emotions have nothing to fasten to because you helped convince her there is no God.

You convinced her of an untruth. That is why we condemn you. You lied to her. You told her there was no God. Doesn’t matter if you don’t think there was no God. If you told her there was no gravity and she could jump off a building, you would be just as wrong if she took your word for it and paid the price.

 

[Persuader]

You are looking at a problem, of something standing in the way of loving her, and it is atheism. She may not be looking at Atheism, as a problem standing in the way of loving you, but if she is understanding, that you are no longer loving her, because of Atheism, then she might look to you for an answer, about not only her happiness, but yours as well. You and she are to be admired for the intimacy the two of you have established, that has allowed such an occurrence of faith, to be challenged to such an extent, as to bow before whom is loved; now, love is remaining victorious. The brilliance of the move, may be up to you; however, love is what is guiding you. In whom, or what, will you place your trust, and in whom, or what, is she placing hers? The only weakness I find on your part, is in your lack of acceptance, of who she as a person, has been in your life. In whatever state you find her, now, though you find it unacceptable–it is encouraging, that you understand her. Read the Bible to her.

Thank you for acknowledging our connection. Maybe I will read the Bible to her, but I think she would see my disbelief. She would not believe I was real, and I wouldn’t be, because I don’t believe it.

 

[nicreap]

I didn’t manipualte her. You call me a cliche, even though you do not know me. You accuse me of just caring about my own feelings, and my own wishes, even though I have repeatedly said I am willing to let her go if that made her happy again. It seems to me, you are not reading what I am writing. You have just decided I am this type of person, and you want to condemn me for it. Is that the way of Jesus?

Here is the thing, what you are telling us and what you say you will do contradict. You say you love her and will do whatever it takes to help her return to the person she was, but then you say you won’t stop doing what you enjoy. Yes, she might physically enjoy it, but as a child of God, it is driving her farther and farther from him. So is the use of contraception, they are both serious sins, and alienate us from God. You say you want her to find her faith and become the person she was. That is IMPOSSIBLE as long as she continues to use contraception and sleep with you. For her to have a valid confession and be reunited to God, she has to make an active attempt to avoid sin, a.k.a. premarital sex, and contraception, otherwise her bond with God isn’t fixed.

I have read what you wrote, and they are right you don’t seem to get it. You can’t try and help her regain her faith from an aethiestic view, you have to understand her faith, and what her faith really is and means to her, and act through that avenue to help her. She has been taught premarital sex and contraception is wrong, and deep down she still believes it. She has been raised under the teaching that love isn’t a feeling or an emotion, that it is willing to do anything for those you love, even to be beaten ridiculed and be hung on a cross. You say you love her and want what is best for her, then look at this through the eyes of the Catholic beliefs, you don’t have to convert or try to, but you have to understand her world. Just because premarital sex and contraception is ok with your morality, it isn’t compatible with hers. It has to stop, reading books with her, or making her go to a therapist aren’t going to help, if you keep leading her into actions that are drawing her away from God, and the source of her happiness, and life. If you really loved her, you wouldn’t sit there arguing about how to keep having sex with her. You would acknowledge her beliefs are different than your own, and that all of the people here, who have amassed countless years, living as Catholics and studying and deepening our understanding of the faith, which is her faith as well, know more on this matter then you. Yes, they have gotten frustrated and seeing your responses I can see why. But the fact of the matter is, you need to get her to go meet with a priest for confession, and spiritual direction. And the priest will tell her what we have all been telling you, she needs to stop having sex and using contraception.

If you are willing to let her go, and love her that much, as you claim you do. Advise her to listen to her parents, go to confession and begin meeting with a priest for guidance. Then take a step back and let her work through things. Once she has figured things out, then see if she would like to continue in a CHASTE, otherwise it will all happen again, relationship with you. You said it yourself, you are causing a lot of tension between her and her family, Remove yourself from the equation for a while, and that tension is gone, and they can try and help her.

This wasn’t written in a condescending tone, only my analyses of what you have said, and how you have responded, reiterating what other have said.

I am going to say Divine Mercy Chaplets so the Lord will pour out His Mercy on both of you.

God bless, and try to listen what the people on here are trying to tell you.

 

[Persuader]

Don’t get me started on how well countries take care of their citizens and how “humane” creeping euthanasia is.

When there is no God, the measure of a human’s dignity becomes how productive they are or what they can do for you.

Kind of like your viewpoint put in practice on an individual level. Your view of morality is the only one that matters to you. Not the one she was raised in. So you trampled her boundaries, argued against her faith, won her over (your words) to your Godless point of view. But you did it nicely so you’re sure you’re a nice guy. But you disregarded her real dignity and freedom and in the end you aren’t really taking care of her. Kind of like some atheistic countries.

Because with you she’s less free, less happy and less connected to the things that mattered to her before you came along. You did not replace what she had with anything better than your own atheistic me-first point of view. You took something of value and replaced it with sex.

And because she doesn’t have anything to compare that (or you) to, she thinks she has something wonderful. She doesn’t know what sex is like in a marriage with a man truly committed to her, who shares her faith, who honors her family (not who takes their virgin daughter, deflowers her, and wonders why they’re hostile) and who honors her. Because really, deep down, she’s a girl who is shacking with a guy. And that is not how she was raised. She was raised to know that if a guy really valued her, he would marry her.

Yes, you are a cliche. Dime a dozen. Young guy with all the answers, comes across a virgin. Convinces her to give herself away. Doesn’t even know what he doesn’t know because his head is filled with what he thinks, not what is objective reality.

And what would Jesus say? He said, Woe to you who scandalize one of these little ones. It would have been better for that man had he never been born!

I have read every word you wrote. All I come away with is that you came to a forum full of Catholics who have tried to explain to you the seriousness of what you did to an innocent Catholic girl. And you are arguing with us that our views are not valid, and the only concession you will make is that if all your other ideas don’t work in fixing the problem you created, you might surrender the orgasms someday.

What an unselfish guy!

You did an injustice to the girl, to her family and to her future husband. Whether you think you did something wrong if you burn down someone’s house has no effect on whether it was wrong or whether they are homeless now.

We’ve pointed out over and over where you skidded off the rails. And you keep wanting to go down that path.

I have to work tomorrow (today). Maybe someone else can explain it to you.

You are just abusing now, I think. Not really anything to help me in this post. I understand that what has happened is serious. I have admitted I do not know what i means to lose faith in God, so I probably do not understand what she feels. I am only trying to do what is best for her at this point, and I have listened to your advice.

Granted, I have decided to try the advice with less dramatic consequences first. Maybe that makes me a coward, although I do not think I am a coward just because I want to be with a girl that I love with all my heart, and that I want to show her that when we make love.

 

[nicreap]

Granted, I have decided to try the advice with less dramatic consequences first. Maybe that makes me a coward, although I do not think I am a coward just because I want to be with a girl that I love with all my heart, and that I want to show her that when we make love.

Sorry, you made an error here. When you have sex with her you are not in her eyes, the eyes of a born and raised child of Christ showing you love her. Regardless of whatever physical pleasure she recieves. All you are showing her is that you don’t love her enough to wait, to do what she has been taught was right. Whether openly or not, you have been putting pressure on her to have sex, and she finally went against her teachings and beliefs, to make you happy. And it is making her miserable, True joy and happiness, extend far deeper than mere emotions or moments of euphoria. Her joy is gone, that is apparent in the fact she can’t stand the works of charity that once brought her life. All you show by having sex with her, is that you care more about your pleasure than what she believes. If you love her, make the sacrafice of true love, and stop having sex, stop tearing apart her relationship with God. When she saw God in the world, and he was present in her life, she had a deeper joy than you can ever give her, so help her regain that, and stop keeping her from it

 

[flyingfish]

You are just abusing now, I think. Not really anything to help me in this post. I understand that what has happened is serious. I have admitted I do not know what i means to lose faith in God, so I probably do not understand what she feels. I am only trying to do what is best for her at this point, and I have listened to your advice.

Granted, I have decided to try the advice with less dramatic consequences first. Maybe that makes me a coward, although I do not think I am a coward just because I want to be with a girl that I love with all my heart, and that I want to show her that when we make love.

I think your approach is good, if she seems depressed and thinks that life has no meaning drastic changes are probably a bad idea.

A person in her situation needs as much stability and security as she can get.

When did all this happen by the way? How long has it been since she felt so depressed? How has this been progressing over time?

 

[Persuader]

You are a liar. You wrote the language of forever committed love on her with your body and you were not married and committed to her.

You don’t even seem to appreciate the gravity of sex beyond the pleasure you get out of it. Catholicism teaches that it is holy and a means of God’s grace and the way life is continued in the context of marriage. Outside of marriage it is a presumptive taking of something that doesn’t belong to you. It is a theft. It kills her relationship with God.

You won’t change your fundamental views just because someone wants you to. But you wanted your girlfriend to. What a one-sided relationship. So you’ve made her miserable. No, you can’t undo the past. We’re angry because you keep justifying what you’ve done, you show no humility or appreciation for what you’re doing to this girl, and you ignore the advice we’ve given you.

You don’t know what faith is. Not necessarily your fault. It’s a gift from God. The one you don’t believe in. It can also be a fragile thing. It can be weakened by life and struggle. We do not have the right to undermine or mess with someone’s faith and try to talk them out of their love of God. You didn’t value something so you treated it as if it wasn’t valuable in her life. Again, your whole life is measured by what YOU value and what YOU feel.

If certain Scandinavian countries built cars based on what a mechanic FELT or BELIEVED, and not by objective standards of physics and design, no one would buy them.

We Catholics live by objective standards that keep us from conducting our lives based on feelings at a particular moment. You took your girlfriend from that into a sinful life with you based on your emotions and her emotions. And now her emotions have nothing to fasten to because you helped convince her there is no God.

You convinced her of an untruth. That is why we condemn you. You lied to her. You told her there was no God. Doesn’t matter if you don’t think there was no God. If you told her there was no gravity and she could jump off a building, you would be just as wrong if she took your word for it and paid the price.

No, I did not want her to change. I told you that already. You know nothing of my morals, and implying I act purely on emotion, is just speculation on your part. I didn’t lie to her. I do not believe there is a God. The only way for me to lie to her, is to say I do believe. That would be a lie, because it would be the opposite of what I believe.

Sure, I was at least a strong contricuting factor to her losing her faith. And yes, according to the catholic faith, I have lead her into a sinful life. But I do respect her. And I did respect her religion, therefore I didn’t push her. We had sex after I showed her my deepest fears and deepest hopes, and she did the same to me. At that point she told me I was the most beautiful person she knew, that she thought I was the right guy, and that she loved me so much that it would be OK to be with me in a sexual way. When she offered herself in this way, what was I suppose to do? Refuse her because of some moral codes I don’t even believe in myself. I couldn’t do that.

 

[flyingfish]

Sorry, you made an error here. When you have sex with her you are not in her eyes, the eyes of a born and raised child of Christ showing you love her. Regardless of whatever physical pleasure she recieves. All you are showing her is that you don’t love her enough to wait, to do what she has been taught was right. Whether openly or not, you have been putting pressure on her to have sex, and she finally went against her teachings and beliefs, to make you happy. And it is making her miserable, True joy and happiness, extend far deeper than mere emotions or moments of euphoria. Her joy is gone, that is apparent in the fact she can’t stand the works of charity that once brought her life. All you show by having sex with her, is that you care more about your pleasure than what she believes. If you love her, make the sacrafice of true love, and stop having sex, stop tearing apart her relationship with God. When she saw God in the world, and he was present in her life, she had a deeper joy than you can ever give her, so help her regain that, and stop keeping her from it

Why is there such a huge focus on whether they should be having sex or not? This girl is possibly depressed, possibly going through an existential crisis, why is all the focus on sex?

Premarital sex is obviously against Catholic teaching, but why is it the main issue here? Do you think that if they stop having sex her existential issues and possible mental health issues with resolve?

 

[Persuader]

Here is the thing, what you are telling us and what you say you will do contradict. You say you love her and will do whatever it takes to help her return to the person she was, but then you say you won’t stop doing what you enjoy. Yes, she might physically enjoy it, but as a child of God, it is driving her farther and farther from him. So is the use of contraception, they are both serious sins, and alienate us from God. You say you want her to find her faith and become the person she was. That is IMPOSSIBLE as long as she continues to use contraception and sleep with you. For her to have a valid confession and be reunited to God, she has to make an active attempt to avoid sin, a.k.a. premarital sex, and contraception, otherwise her bond with God isn’t fixed.

I have read what you wrote, and they are right you don’t seem to get it. You can’t try and help her regain her faith from an aethiestic view, you have to understand her faith, and what her faith really is and means to her, and act through that avenue to help her. She has been taught premarital sex and contraception is wrong, and deep down she still believes it. She has been raised under the teaching that love isn’t a feeling or an emotion, that it is willing to do anything for those you love, even to be beaten ridiculed and be hung on a cross. You say you love her and want what is best for her, then look at this through the eyes of the Catholic beliefs, you don’t have to convert or try to, but you have to understand her world. Just because premarital sex and contraception is ok with your morality, it isn’t compatible with hers. It has to stop, reading books with her, or making her go to a therapist aren’t going to help, if you keep leading her into actions that are drawing her away from God, and the source of her happiness, and life. If you really loved her, you wouldn’t sit there arguing about how to keep having sex with her. You would acknowledge her beliefs are different than your own, and that all of the people here, who have amassed countless years, living as Catholics and studying and deepening our understanding of the faith, which is her faith as well, know more on this matter then you. Yes, they have gotten frustrated and seeing your responses I can see why. But the fact of the matter is, you need to get her to go meet with a priest for confession, and spiritual direction. And the priest will tell her what we have all been telling you, she needs to stop having sex and using contraception.

If you are willing to let her go, and love her that much, as you claim you do. Advise her to listen to her parents, go to confession and begin meeting with a priest for guidance. Then take a step back and let her work through things. Once she has figured things out, then see if she would like to continue in a CHASTE, otherwise it will all happen again, relationship with you. You said it yourself, you are causing a lot of tension between her and her family, Remove yourself from the equation for a while, and that tension is gone, and they can try and help her.

This wasn’t written in a condescending tone, only my analyses of what you have said, and how you have responded, reiterating what other have said.

I am going to say Divine Mercy Chaplets so the Lord will pour out His Mercy on both of you.

God bless, and try to listen what the people on here are trying to tell you.

I am listening. I have said many times now that I am willing to cut the sex, even willing to leave her. I have already urged her to talk to her family, and to counsel with whomever she deems appropriate. I understand that we are different, and you have helped me understand the catholic mind, so asking for help here has been worth it. Thanks for the advice.