Relationship in the gutter.

[StillWondering]

You are right, I don’t understand all of it, but that doesn’t matter. I understand how she could be conflicted in this way even though I do not understand why the catholic view is the way it is.

Hello Persuader, I am writing to you as a Catholic that has walked in your girlfriend’s shoes, in some ways. I am a male Catholic who had a profound relationship with God, went dry for seven years, then returned with firmer feet than ever.

It’s very late right now and I should be asleep but I just need to respond because my heart would not let me rest after seeing your thread. I read over the first two pages and the last page, so I may have missed some details.

Before anything, I would tell you that I recognize your deep sacrificial love for her. This is going to be your asset in renewing her and bringing her to life. The truth is that you cannot do it alone, only the Holy Spirit can. But He can work through your hands with or without your faith. What He ask for your part is to be patient, loving, and bear all of your girlfriend’s wraith. I hope you are willing to make the commitment for her sake. This is not far from Catholic teaching. As a Catholic, the man is to serve the woman completely even unto death. I do not know if your commitment goes thus far, but a loving commitment that will not give up is at least what you need. All this for her sake.

Earlier, Kindness gave both sides of understanding the Catholic mindset and the secular mindset very well. I understand you read what Kindness already wrote. I wanted to add to it with direct advice.

You are already planning to volunteer with her and talk intellect with her. You already encourage her to see a priest. Have you been to the spiritual direction sessions with her? Have you honestly spoken to the priest? Did you ever clarified to the priest that you are only concern about her well-being, irregardless of what the priest feels about you? That you still respect the priest and that is why you are here, but you need to priest to be willing to let you into her spiritual direction because you care about her? That you want to show her that you are guided by honest love. These are core good human values. And for a Catholic, only good things come from God; with this you should be on the priest good side.

Now there are other things you can do. You can ask her what is bothering her. And pause, don’t answer from your own secular understanding. Try to answer from a Catholic point of view. Ask her what she would have said to you if you ask her the same question. This is no time to have you ego out. It is not about how smart either of you are, but about getting to the core questions and finding out what does she understand. If she does not have answers to her questions, you go and research it for her. This site is a good start for the research, any topic she has, type it in on the search box under the faith tab. In addition you can search in the “Ask an Apologist” forum. Stick with the faith tab articles, also known here as tracks, and the “Ask an Apologist” forums for her questions. They will provide the core. Next make sure you and her have a Catechism of the Catholic Church and a good quality bible within reach. For the intellectual, the Catechism is great. It covers the spectrum of Catholic teaching and is very deep. It may seem to only say a little about each topic, but that would be a surface reading. It’s one of the most concise read you can have – each paragraph is completely dense.

So that covers the priest and her volunteering services as well as mental questions she has. Now the second to last part is the sexual relationship aspects. First, I do understand the issue of Sex has been brought up a few times. This is my clear and direct advice for you. Tell her, somewhere along these lines and in honest tone, *I do not understand the Catholic teachings on sex. But I do understand it is considered important. So honey, dear, darling, who is very precious to me, and whom I wish no harm to ever come, I am willing to ease up on having sex. I am offering no pressure either way. Sometimes I may get too excited. Sometimes you may get too excited. But I am worried about you and care about you. So as long as I can handle myself, you call the shots on when and if we have sex. * This does not force anything on her and allows her to make her own moral decisions. This is very important in my personal experience. If she was hearing God’s whispers when she had sex, and she still had sex because of the relationship and her feelings for you, it hurts! It would hurt her so greatly. She might say I’m wrong here or she might cry and say it’s so true. Either way, if God was talking to her and she blocked it out, it gets harder and harder to listen to God. Then when you stop feeling God is talking to you, how do you know God is real anymore!

Lastly, your own romantic relationship. You already supported her on her spiritual discernment, her understanding of Catholic teachings, and her sex life (which to any Catholic that is raised Catholic knows it is intricately entwined with marriage). Now you gotta also pamper her. Take her out ice-skating, bowling, dances. Anything your girl likes. Show her that you love her. You are probably doing this already, but at this point you are worried and could be behind on the romance. Step it up, but do not break the bank or go into debt =). God is love, the real love, not our wishy-washy and secular love – the love that chooses to stand by and be strong. We gotta do what we can with what we have. And that would be the love we are able to show. Our love may not be infinite or total sacrifice, but it is love. And showing her love will be the nourishment for all of the above to work.

I am telling you this as a friend, you may or may not ever meet. But a friend with experience form the other perspective.

 

[whatevergirl]

I had edited my previous post to get rid of the negativity, but after reading the following, the gloves simply have to be dropped, because you simply are not “getting it”:

Well, one posiive thing I can say for you is that you probably will not develop colon cancer anytime in the near future, considering that you have your head stuck so far up your rear end you can simply open your eyes to give yourself your own colonoscomy.

A MISTAKE? SIMPLY HUMAN to MAKE MISTAKES? A mistake that just “happened” to your girlfriend?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?

Do you have ANY concept of what you did?

Killing a person’s faith is a pretty BIG “mistake”. And it didn’t just “happen” to her; YOU did it to her.

Are you evil? Well, if you are not evil, you certainly are cooperating with it. And you will continue to be cooperating with it until you stop rationalizing what you have done and what you are continuing to do.

No one kills another person’s faith without that person’s permission. I’m not saying that the OP had no skin in this game, but it sounds like she was having problems before they met, then she left the faith, and now the problems are compounded. No one deserves that much power to say that he/she destroyed someone’s faith. Just my two cents.

 

[whatevergirl]

In spite of a lot of “hate”, thanks for all the advice, it has been really helpful. I will try a few things now, and see where it goes. Maybe I might need some more advice later on, I hope you will be forthcoming then also

***You know, I think it might be a good idea for you to make an appt with a priest…ALONE. Just to talk about the whole situation. Just ask for his objective yet spiritual opinion. I think this would help you to see where she is coming from. Priests have dealt with all kinds of situations, yours not being the worst they have ever seen. They are probably used to situations like this involving people who have left the faith, after dating someone who was a non-believer. They are also used to discussing with people, when they are having a crisis of faith. It happens. Your gf is experiencing the side effects for lack of a better word, of what life without faith is like. For us believers, a life without God is perilous. It’s scary. Rightfully so! I can’t imagine my life without God. It’s a frightening thought. So, your gf, in some ways, might come out stronger for this experience, clinging to her faith evermore, since she now sees life from both sides.

Just my two cents…set up a time to speak with a priest on your own…He won’t scold you, trust me. They are there to HELP, and he might tell you a few things that you don’t want to hear, but that is part of the helping process. I will keep you both in my prayers. ***

 

[whatevergirl]

Look, I have already said that I urged her to talk to her priest. I have done that already. But she is saying that she doesn’t believe it anymore. She says that her feeling of God, or her relationship with God, is gone.

I hear you on the sex, and I will try to explain to her why we should stop that for a while. But I will wait until she has been to see a psychiatrist, just to be sure she can handle it. I don’t know if I want to marry her, and I don’t know how long I could wait without any sex before I would really struggle. She is a great temptation, and difficult to resist. Could we do stuff not involing penetration? Would stuff like that be OK?

Hi again Persuader…No, it wouldn’t be okay to do other things sexually with her. No sex before marriage, oral, intercourse, nothing…that is Christian teaching.

This is why I teach my kids not to date people who don’t believe in what they do. Not because I want to teach them to be snobs…not because I want them to judge others…but because of this very situation that you find yourself in. You are hurting, also. I see that. I feel for you, too. But, in the end, your beliefs are dramatically different from what your gf’s beliefs once were. It is very very hard to have a harmonious relationship, when one person doesn’t believe what the other does, morally, etc. Not impossible, but very very hard. People who ‘make it work,’ I wonder how they do it, honestly. I just think it would be very hard to be a devout Catholic and have no one to share that with, in a relationship. What a lonely place. That could be why she walked away from it all, because she saw the debating and strife it was causing between you both. But, at the end of the day, things got worse for her…and you…and thus, your relationship. When God is removed from a person’s life, no one wins.

I still believe that there are other things at play here, with your gf. I just pray that she comes back to the faith. You know that old saying, let someone go, and if they come back…then it was meant to be…if they don’t, then it wasn’t. I think you’re at one of those crossroads now. It might be time to let go and see what happens. Wish her well…and seek out a priest as I recommended above, to get a broader sense of what’s at play here.

God bless. *

 

[Just_Lurking]

Some other things to consider:

It sounds like she has lost not only her faith, but her family and her faith community as well. If she had a close family, the current struggle with them is going to be very painful for her. If she drew a lot of support from her fellow Catholics, who are now being cut off from her because of her changed beliefs, then she may be drifting alone in the wind, which will definitely affect her mood.

If so, you should look for ways to reconnect her with her family and Catholic friends. Additionally, if you have atheist friends who look out for and care about each other, you should try to get her to bond with them as well. If you know of any other atheists who had a difficult or painful conversion from Christianity, get her to talk with them about the struggles she is going through.

Faith is a gift from God. I don’t think there is a magic wand that you can wave and give it back to her. But you can still help her on her life’s journey, and hope that one day she will have that gift again.

 

[prodigalson12]

She has read those arguments. Look, she is not an idiot. English is my third language, so maybe you got the wrong idea about the intellectual level we’re at. As stated earlier, we are both good university students.

I have already said that I am willing to do almost anything to help her regain her happiness, even turning her towards God again. However, I don’t believe in God, so trying to scare me is stupid. I am willing to help her, but I am doing it for her, not because I’m afraid of consequences to myself.

So you are going to tell me that you managed to acquire every single logical argument against non belief in God that has ever existed on the planet? That is quite the feat, how did you manage that one?

Almost anything, more like “some things as long as it doesn’t take too much effort”.

It wasn’t a scare tactic, it was a warning, take heed of it, people rarely get these types of warnings from me, I tend to sit back and watch them crash and burn and am in no way surprised when they are standing in utter bewilderment as to what happened and is happening to them, trust me on this one, you really don’t want to go toe to toe with the All Mighty, he can make his presence known in a very big way…

 

[Jwlynas]

I read four pages of this before literally swearing out loud in disbelief. I am not generally a fan of it, but some issues need some decent punctuation.

There seems to be one or two people handling this correctly, with consideration and poise,. the rest seem happy to just condemn the poor man and his girlfriend to misery.

I can understand you are upset, I understand that persuader has seemingly harmed the belief of one of your flock, but he is not the person you should be issuing anything too… The girl clearly needs support, love and care, and you think that getting rid of the person she loves enough to reconsider her faith for should leave her?

…It boggles the mind.

Persuader. help the girl through this crisis. Either she goes back to her faith, and more power to her for it for there are few loves as pure as that of God’s, or she doesn’t, in which case she’ll need love and support from the place we poor atheists have to get it from. Earthly figures. Its not undying, its not totally without issue, but its there when we need it most, and it can hold us as we cry, kiss us as we smile and look into our eyes when it says it loves us.

Don’t leave her because of guilt, especially not if its being forced on you by people who have forgot that sometimes earthly figures are as important as otherworldly ones.

 

[newbetx]

Persuader,

I don’t know if I can help, but I can say that there are many here that are willing to help you (and her) if you try to understand. Sometimes some posters don’t have the best bed side manner, if you KWIM. That doesn’t make them “wrong” and you “right.” There is much to learn from all of our experiences. Some may apply, some may not. Sometimes it might take years for the realization that what someone said did apply and exactly how.

I, too, am a convert. Although never an anti-Christian, I certainly did not perform as a good Christian. As such I took a few seemingly strong in their faith Catholic women where they should not have gone. I didn’t understand at the time and didn’t for quite a few years until I finally woke up to the faith and started to pursue it.

I don’t know if you can ever understand a person with faith in God. As I won’t be able to comprehend how you can not see God in everything around you. There are books about ex-Athiests and ex-Catholics and on and on. I don’t know if reading a book can change your mind or if posting here will, but my experience is this.

Time after time, when I entered a good relationship, I found myself in the company of a Catholic woman. And until the last, I left them wondering why the relationship didn’t turn out as they had hoped it would (like their parent’s relationship, most likely.) Finally, with the last woman, I got the feeling that God was tapping me on the shoulder, saying. HINT HINT! And I started looking into the faith. And found it very compelling. This from a very anti-organized religion kinda guy.

When I first got here at CAF there was a lot of discussion about the importance (or not) of sharing a common faith. As time went on, I read with horror of the marriages ruined by conflicts of faith. To be fair, there are many here happily enjoying what we call a “mixed marriage.” I’m glad that I married a fellow Catholic so that the basic “rules of life” can be easily arbitrated. It makes things so much easier than those that have built in conflicts.

So here is my less than professional assessment. She had faith. She feels strongly that her partner and her have a similar set of values. She’s with you and her faith conflicts with her circumstances. Faith can always be questioned. From the death of a parent/child to sickness or even a sense of fairness. So to blame this on anyone in particular is not productive. I don’t blame you, BTW, but even I may have had something to do with your girlfriend’s loss of faith in some round about way. I mean, if we aren’t supporting each other, aren’t we, in a way, undermining such support?

I assume you have faith of some sort. Maybe not in God, but in yourself. Your abilities. The strength of human compassion. You have faith (meaning you can’t prove, but you “know” it exists) in something. I thank you for having some faith in us here on CAF for at least wanting to help you (and her).

Imagine finding a source that “proves” all that you believed was a lie. How would you feel? Now what will be the source of your future decisions if what you understood is “false?” How can you sort reality from lies? Really, I can imagine how confused and helpless she feels.

But on a side note, many people over history have been told to renounce their faith or die. Many choose death. Seems odd, doesn’t it? These are martyrs. Others “die” because they don’t choose death, but maybe always wished they had. Judas, killed himself, but he didn’t have to. Others, re-convert, as many here on CAF have. But faith in something is very much a part of people’s lives.

As for you, I don’t know. You seem like a very nice, normal guy to me. You have feelings of love, show responsibility, and caring for another. I am very glad that you love her and want the best for her. That is a very admirable characteristic. Many in your situation would have just dumped her. I hope you and she get the help you need. I really do. I don’t know what your future holds. No one does. If you would care, look up the posts for “Agnostic” here and follow her story. Seems many of the conversion stories I’ve heard are long and deliberate or swift and obvious. I don’t know, but this girl just may have been your “tapping on the shoulder.”

Peace to you. I “know” God loves you and her and always will.

 

[Pro-Life_Teen]

I can understand you are upset, I understand that persuader has seemingly harmed the belief of one of your flock, but he is not the person you should be issuing anything too… The girl clearly needs support, love and care, and you think that getting rid of the person she loves enough to reconsider her faith for should leave her?

He caused her to lose her faith, which is a big issue. At minimum he was a catalyst to this. She does need support and love- and while he can give this, he shouldn’t be sleeping with her to do so.

Persuader. help the girl through this crisis. Either she goes back to her faith, and more power to her for it for there are few loves as pure as that of God’s, or she doesn’t, in which case she’ll need love and support from the place we poor atheists have to get it from. Earthly figures. Its not undying, its not totally without issue, but its there when we need it most, and it can hold us as we cry, kiss us as we smile and look into our eyes when it says it loves us.

I disagree. Her staying an atheist isn’t an option. It’s killing her inside because she can’t figure out what’s right anymore. He by all means should help her, but in the correct manner. Sleeping with her is not the correct answer.

Don’t leave her because of guilt, especially not if its being forced on you by people who have forgot that sometimes earthly figures are as important as otherworldly ones.

While earthly figures are important, NOTHING is more important than God.

 

[TOP]

No one kills another person’s faith without that person’s permission. I’m not saying that the OP had no skin in this game, but it sounds like she was having problems before they met, then she left the faith, and now the problems are compounded. No one deserves that much power to say that he/she destroyed someone’s faith. Just my two cents.

I agree. Faith is a God given grace and it is at odds in the world. I used to go to my priest and say, man…this and that… He would look at me and say “they used to feed us to lions, lions Tim. God is good. Hang in there brother.”

 

[jenlovesyu]

newbetx, in my eyes your post was absolutely perfect

Persuader, my heart goes out to the both of you (you & your gf). Perhaps you two could go find a chapel somewhere where they have Eucharisitc Adoration with the Blessed Sacrament exposed. Maybe if you could just sit in there for a little while you might find a sense of genuine peace. Just maybe…

 

[monicatholic]

earthly figures are as important as otherworldly ones.

what do you mean important? powerful? significant? necessaary, perhaps?

nothing. NOTHING is as important, significant, powerful, necessary as God. nothing. because without HIM, there is nothing. nothing important, nothing powerful, nothing good, nothing loving, nothing. not earthly figures. nothing.

the order of the Great command is precise:’ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; Love your naighbor as yourself.

Pursuader,

please note: eveil is an absence of good. like there is no such thing as cold, except the terrible effects of the loss of heat. and dark is the absence of light. it isn’t a thing unto itself. it’s the absence of a thing.

evil is like that, too. it’s the absence of God and His goodness. and in that absence, all sorts of stuff brews blackly. your relationship has effected precisely that darkness in your girlfriend. where once she had God in her heart and knew life and peace, she has abandoned all that and knows sorrow and despair.

are you evil? you were made in God’s image and likeness. when He made you and me, He knew that we, like all His creation are good. you are good because God made you good.

to the extent that our choices choices, actions and influences on others are devoid of His direction and grace is the extent to which our impact is evil. your influence on your girlfriend has been devoid of His direction and grace. your influence on her has been evil.

was your intent evil? only you can know what you really intended for her-- was her loss of faith is a pleasure to you? i did you feel you had prevailed?

if you have zero intention to change, then may i suggest you enjoy the seemingly good sex while it lasts? because its days are numbered, too.

and may i also suggest you save this whole thread to a word file for future reference. there is prophesy herein, Persuader. not becase we’re prophetic, but because Truth reins eternal and lies crash and burn in precisely the same formulas over and over and over again.

this thing you have with her? it may have some seeming longevity (much to her heart’s sorrow and her parents’ deep dismay) but it will end in catastrophe. save this thread.

you and a few like-minded cohorts will dismiss most of this thread as judgmental ramblings. but most of us ‘conservative’ Catholics have been on your side of the argument. (you shoulda seen me. i got some serious mileage, man.)

our lives proved us wrong.

 

[Jwlynas]

Ok, I’ve read the rest. I’ve calmed down, and reconsidered.

Sorry to any and all people I may have possibly insulted. Won’t happen again.

Persuader, friend, you’re being a little stubborn here. I can see you care for the girl, but her religion is what gave her strength. May want to follow the rules according to tha. Marry the girl, and abstain until you do.

Don’t get me wrong, i get where you’re coming from. I’m in much the same position myself, dating a catholic and loving her endlessly, but unable to any what my people (Deviants) believe are natural progressions.

You love her, you’ll live with it.

The rest of you, you make good points, but if you come across as confrontational, people will be less inclined to listen.

 

[1ke]

In college I was your girlfriend. Completely swept off my feet by the person I thought I would marry. He was raised Catholic and was a self-proclaimed atheist and follower of Ayn Rand.

At first our huge differences in world view didn’t seem to matter because I “loved” him so much. And, he was so different from other guys. He’d traveled the world, was intellectually my equal, and we got along famously.

But, he did not support my faith. And the longer I was around him, the less I practiced my faith (non-Catholic/Protestant at that time). I stopped going to church b/c he always had other ideas for what to do on Sunday. When we’d talk about God he’d argue how ridiculous faith was. I just shut down that part of me over time. And, yes, I was a different person because of it. I was doing things that went against my true belief system.

Thankfully we broke up. I cried over him for a long time. And, now I am SOOO glad that the breakup occurred. Not long after he departed the scene, I returned to my church and began practicing my faith more strongly than ever before. AFter I got over him, he became relegated to the “what was I thinking” file of boyfriends past.

She’s unlikely to return to the practice of her faith with you in the picture. That’s just the truth of it. And, she is quite likely to return to it if you depart the scene. That’s just the truth of it, too.

 

[monicatholic]

He was raised Catholic and was a self-proclaimed atheist and follower of Ayn Rand.

oye vey. i’d often wondered who he ditched me for!!! he was a real winner, wasn’t he? and could he pontificate!

he said Christians were judgmental. yet there wasn’t a tolerant bone in his body. and he said Catholics were ridgid. he was the single most inflexible person I’ve ever known. he said Faith was stupid, but he proved the adage “the man who won’t believe in God will believe in anything.”

problem was, that for a looong 18 months, i believed every word he said. my poor parents. they suffered so deeply for me.

 

[Persuader]

I have taken some steps today, but it didn’t go as well as I hoped…

I couldn’ sleep very well last night, as I have been thinking of what actions to take. I talked to my gf earlier today, and confronted her about some of the things we have talked about. She told me the same things she have said already. That she has lost her faith, and that she doesn’t feel the presence of God anymore. She also told me that she doesn’t believe God exist, that her former feelings might have been some form of self-deception.

It is clearly painful for her to talk about, I can see that she becomes uncomfortable when we speak about this. She did confess that she had been reading atheistic literature, and also Nietzsche. Altough Nietzsche himself wasn’t a nihilist, I am concerned about her attitude, I’m concerned she might be sympathizing with nihilism.

We talked a bit more about this before I told her that I really wanted her to see a psychiatrist, and that I really think she should work on her relationship with her family and friends. She said that she was fine with her friends. She is very easy to love, and most of them are not as religious as she used to be. So I believe her on that. I don’t think she is catching that much heat from them. I know that a few of them doesn’t like me though (one of them has clearly expressed interest in me, and didn’t appreciate the rejection), so I am a bit worried they might be trying to badmouth me to her.

She said that her family was being unreasonable, and that they had hurt her feelings. I think this issue with her family might be a bigger factor in her mood than she is letting on, and that she should try harder to patch things up. I said as much, and she got angry with me. She said that she had talked to them, but that they didn’t want to hear it. They told her to leave me, and come back to the faith, but she refused. I really think they are at a stalemate at this point.

She doesn’t believe she is depressed. She says that the place in her heart where God used to be is empty, and that it is just difficult to deal with. Then she said she was trying to fill it with her love for me. That really hit me, and I couldn’ help myself. So we had sex. Afterwards, I asked if she would see a psychiastrist at least. If she didn’t want to see her family or talk to a priest, do that at least. She said she would do it if her heart didn’t mend. I asked for a time limit, and she said she would think about it. After that I left her, and she went to see her friends or something.

I don’t think I really managed to do anything. We just talked like we have done before, no progress. I called her mother later, and tried to talk to her. She just cussed my *** out, telling me how I had corrupted her beautiful daughter, how she would never forgive me for it. When I try to bring up the fact that our relationship might last, and that I thought she should try to accept her daughter as she is, she told me she would never give her daughter to a skirt chaser like me. I just hang up on her at this point, as it didn’t seem to do any good talking to her about this, and it is a limit to the amount of abuse I am willing to endure.

 

[1ke]

oye vey. i’d often wondered who he ditched me for!!! he was a real winner, wasn’t he? and could he pontificate!

He married the one he ditched ME for. Poor girl.

She put him through law school and he left her after he graduated and called ME and tried to pick up where he left off. As if!

Yes, quite persuasive and charming on the surface. All that cr*p about “enlightened self interest.” Makes me cringe even 20 years later!

 

[Persuader]

In college I was your girlfriend. Completely swept off my feet by the person I thought I would marry. He was raised Catholic and was a self-proclaimed atheist and follower of Ayn Rand.

At first our huge differences in world view didn’t seem to matter because I “loved” him so much. And, he was so different from other guys. He’d traveled the world, was intellectually my equal, and we got along famously.

But, he did not support my faith. And the longer I was around him, the less I practiced my faith (non-Catholic/Protestant at that time). I stopped going to church b/c he always had other ideas for what to do on Sunday. When we’d talk about God he’d argue how ridiculous faith was. I just shut down that part of me over time. And, yes, I was a different person because of it. I was doing things that went against my true belief system.

Thankfully we broke up. I cried over him for a long time. And, now I am SOOO glad that the breakup occurred. Not long after he departed the scene, I returned to my church and began practicing my faith more strongly than ever before. AFter I got over him, he became relegated to the “what was I thinking” file of boyfriends past.

She’s unlikely to return to the practice of her faith with you in the picture. That’s just the truth of it. And, she is quite likely to return to it if you depart the scene. That’s just the truth of it, too.

I am not like that. I’m not a follower of Ayn Rand or objectivism. I did not ridicule her or her faith. I don’t know if it is fair of you to compare me to a guy like that. I am not like that.

 

[ExDeoVita]

Hello, catholics. I hope this is the correct place for this kind of post.

I am not a catholic. In fact, I’m an atheist/agnostic, and personally I’m fine with that, and this has been managable in my relationship with my girlfriend. We have had our discussions and fights over these things, but it has been good.

Lately this have changed. I think I’ve gradually won her over to my way of thinking, but unfortunatly, she has not adopted my positive way of thinking about a life without God. It seems she has lost faith, and not only in God, but in life as well.

In the beginning, I thought it would be good that she lost her faith, but the consequenses have been terrible. I have tried to advance the positives of a life without God, but she isn’t buying it, and I am almost ready to give up on trying to make her adopt a more positive world view.

If I cannot persuade her on this point, I feel that I have destroyed her, and that our relationship will be over. Part of the reason I fell in love with her was because she was full of life. Now it seems that is completely gone, like a needle popping a balloon.

I have been thinking about trying to make her believe again, as this seem to be the only way to fix her. Maybe this is the last chance for our relationship, and maybe the last chance to make her what she used to be. But I have no idea on how to do this. Any advice on this, or some other way to fix things, would be greatly appreciated.

Your are parsing the goodness & ‘life’ from your girlfriend’s relationship with her creator. You cannot parse the two, period. To hope that your girlfriend’s love of life and fulfillment would remain intact after her relationship with God was hindered was a failed mission before you even began. The two cannot be separated, the joy and love we have in this life has everything to do with how we respond to and nourish the graces God pours down on our lives.

I don’t know the extant of you knowledge about the Christian faith in general, but i’m not going to be ‘nice’ and glide over this: you harmed the most important thing your girlfriend ever had, or could ever have. Your cooperation in what could seriously amount to her soul’s ultimate end should she continue down the dark road of secular activity and embrace it in the ultimate scheme of things is incomprehensible.

The ‘life’ we have within us is God, and the more we nourish our relationship with God - the more fully alive we become, and yes this life manifests itself in how we appear to others (it is contagious). And this is what (in essence) you had been attracted to in your girlfriend originally - God’s presence in her, manifest in her actions, her purity, and her good will.

There is no such thing as life or true happiness apart from God. While it is true that I have known people who don’t believe in God to exhibit happiness in worldly pursuits, I have never, NEVER, met an atheist/agnostic who truly exhibits the inner peact that comes with a relationship with God. (this excludes those atheists /agnostics that are not already sincerely searching for truth and experiencing in some way the graces of God before why are in full communion with Him - for example Thomas Merton in the Seven Story Mountain experienced inner peace before his final entrance into the Catholic Church)

To try to create a happiness within your girlfriend by helping sever her relationship with God would be tantamount to attempting to make a beautiful flower bloom by putting it in an air-tight container and chocking it to death.

Can I recommend you reading the book I mentioned above: The Seven Story Mountain (for yourself) and try learning what the Christian faith is all about by reading the Bible. You may not agree yourself, but you will be able to grasp the very reason you girlfriend has responded to this change in such a way.

You can re-build a beautiful relationship by first learning to respect the reason you girlfriend is beautiful and cherish it for her ultimate fulfillment. I guarantee your relationship will blossom and take on joys that you yourself have never experienced. Personally bud, the ideal of my future bride would be her telling me without reservation that she loves God more than myself. If I can find a young woman that can tell me that, then EVERYTHING is in place for a happy lifelong relationship through thick and thin, or as you put it: a relationship that will spring fourth life and bring about the best from one another.

 

[1ke]

I am not like that. I’m not a follower of Ayn Rand or objectivism. I did not ridicule her or her faith. I don’t know if it is fair of you to compare me to a guy like that. I am not like that.

I did not mean it as a direct comparison.

However, you are an atheist and your “discussions” of faith disturbed her, in conjunction with other things, to the point where she discontinued the practice of her faith. This has made her sad, depressed… a different person. It is her ongoing relationship with you that continues her down this path. And, without it she is quite likely to return to her true belief system.

On the flip side, let’s say you stay together-- and she does regain her faith. Then what? How do you expect to be married to a practicing Catholic and not have your religious differences be a continual issue? How will you raise children? How will you deal with her practice of the faith? What about celebrating holidays-- Christmas, Easter, etc-- in a Catholic way?

Your belief system is the core of who you are. You two have incompatible belief systems. I don’t understand why you believe that to be of little significance.