Relationship in the gutter.

[kage_ar]

If you have never been baptized, you are not really supposed to use the holy water. That is a reminder of our baptism.

When you love someone, how can you want to take them down a peg or two (or however you phrased it?)

 

[Marie5890]

Obviously, her spirituality is entangled with her religious faith. She has, after all, grown up with the catholic faith. Because of this, she will associate her spiritual experiences with the religious dogmas she has been taught. Or more precisely, her spirituality will have specific, religious content. If you look at the experiments with the god helmet (google it), this hypothesis seems quite uncontroversial. You could say that the content or religious faith is really not supported by her spirituality. If she had been taught a different set of dogmas, she would associate them with her spirituality, and see that as confirmation of her beliefs when it really isn’t.

First of all, Kudos to you for at least trying to understand and be supportive of your GF.

Second of all, sounds like you two are becoming unequally yoked, spiritually speaking. That will be a challenge to your relationship.

I do think you are painting her spiritual journey with the stereo-typical broad brush that those who have a lower appreciation for these kinds of journeys have.
In other words I find your observations shallow at best. In other words you simply dont “get it” so you undervalue (and perhaps even invalid it) so you can find something to “understand”

You may find that this will cause some real legit strain in your relationship should the two of yours spiritual paths continue to go in separate directions.

It may be time to do some serious consideration as to whether or not the two of you should continue this unevenly yoked relationship.

You both have fundamentally different foundational values.

JMO

 

[Fran65]

Hmmmm. Let’s get this straight. One minute you’re so worried about your girlfriend’s wellbeing that you will do almost anything to have her back the way that she was; the next you think “she needs taking down a peg or two.” This is not adding up, or if it is, what you need is couples counselling or individual therapy for both of you. Either way this is not a healthy state - if it’s a real situation of course. Are you just exercising your typing fingers persuader?

BTW, the so called god helmet can be explained by those with faith in the following way. Human experience is mediated through the nervous system. It is possible that the areas of the brain are associated with spiritual experience in the same way as other areas are associated with visual experience. Just as stimulating areas of the visual cortex will induce hallucinated visual experience, so stimulating the areas around the temporal lobes artificially induced spiritual experiences. By the way, you should note that this effect is not reliable and there have been difficulties replicating it- unlike the visual area stimulations that I refer to above.

 

[Persuader]

Ok, so I won’t dip my fingers into the water again.

I think you misunderstood what I said about taking her down a notch or two. What I meant is that I don’t want to signal to her that she has me whipped, or that she has control of the relationship. Just because I have agreed to various things, doesn’t mean she has me completely wrapped around her finger.

I understand your explanation of the god helmet, but I can’t really see how it is addressing the issue. Apparently none of you were very impressed by my explanation, so maybe it would be fine to mentioned it to my gf if it comes up.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Make sure you show her who’s boss. That sounds like a whole lotta “love” you have for her.

As for worship… we can make up our minds as to our posture at Mass. Just because it has no significance for you doesn’t mean it doesn’t mean something profound to us. But you’re good at negating anything that isn’t directly related to your own personal experience.

The official posture for prayer in Catholic worship is standing. When you stand at Mass, it is because you are praying. It is also a sign of respect for when the priest enters and when the Gospel is being read (Christ’s words made present among us.)

The official posture for being taught or waiting is sitting. The parts of Mass where people sit they are being read the readings and hearing a homily that instructs them. Or waiting for the next part of Mass to begin.

The official posture for adoration is kneeling. So the parts of the Mass where God becomes truly present calls for us to be on our knees in adoration.

We worship with our whole bodies. Mass is about an attentiveness to the presence of God in our midst.

Sorry you aren’t happy that your GF is happy again (if you are genuine and this isn’t some elaborate troll experiment on the web.) My theory is, you never really loved her, and this “threat” to your dominance in the relationship is bothering you.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

It was a strange experience, not entirely unpleasant, but quite boring at times.

I feel for you, Persuader, and I say this sincerely. Some of my best friends are agnostics, and the experience was also hard on them. While a Protestant service is 98% instruction (something that’s probably easier to connect to, at least in the beginning, on an intellectual level) and 2% prayer, a Catholic service (Mass) is more like 50-50%. And, if you are agnostic or atheist, you will probably wonder, whom are these people talking to during prayer? Is there someone real “at the other end of the line”, or is it just their fantasy? Now, most of us will never have a direct sensory experience with God, in the sense that heavenly beings (Jesus Christ, angels, saints from the heaven) will not appear/talk to us in a visible/audible form. But some people, called “mystics”, will have a direct encounter with Jesus Christ or other persons from heaven (Holy Mary or some other saint, their Guardian Angel, or other angel). E.g. when Holy Mary appeared to the three children of Fatima, Portugal, in 1917, showed them the hell, where the souls of poor sinners go, and gave them a prophecy about Russia spreading her errors around the world, and causing persecution and martyrdom of the faithful, that was a mystical experience (=a direct encounter with a being from heaven, whom they saw with their eyes and heard her talking with their ears).

When entering, you were supposed to wet your fingers in a water bowl, and cross yourself. I did that (awkwardly). Afterwards it was a lot of standing up. And then down, and then up again. Apparently, they couldn’t decide what they wanted.

as far as I understood it, Catholics actually believe that the bread and wine turns into the blood and body of Christ. I have to say that I find that a bit silly.

You now what I found silly? When I was taught for the first time that a positive number multiplied with a positive number gives a positive number; a positive number multiplied with a negative number, or a negative number multiplied with a positive number, gives a negative number; and a negative number multiplied with a negative number gives a positive number. Also, when I first saw the formula for multiplying a complex number (A + Bi) with another complex number (C + Di), it didn’t make too much sense to me. And up to this day, these things seem rather odd to me. Why is there an absolute speed limit in the universe? Why 300,000 km/s? Why not 200,000 km/s, or 500,000 km/s, instead?

However, my gf was prancing about a little too smug for my liking. I think I need to take her down a notch or two (too bad sex isn’t on the table anymore).

Actually it’s good that sex isn’t on the table anymore. You are not married, you are not supposed to have sex, LOL, at least according to the Catholic rules, and your gf happens to be a Catholic. Tough luck.

When the thing was finally over, I was exhausted. At least it pleased my gf, but I don’t know if I want to do this again.

And now, think about it, do you want to do this every Sunday, for the rest of your life, if you marry your gf? On the other hand, does your gf really want to marry you if you will not do this, with her and your future children, leaving them every Sunday to do this alone?

Just doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t know how will I survive doing this with her family for
Christmas. Just thinking about it makes my stomach churn. God, help me! (don’t get excited, it’s just an expression)… If there is some non-believer in similar shoes, I would appreciate some advice.

On the bright side, you finally stopped having sex with her. Now you can think more rationally, and with less pressure, about what do you plan to do with your gf in the future. Marry her or not? And the rest of us, posters here, should get finally off your case and stop bashing you.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Oh, and one thing I was wondering about:

My gf told me about how she regained her faith. As I said earlier, she went to see a psychologist about her loss of faith. The psychologist gave her some meditation exercises to get in touch with her spirituality. Clearly, it worked. Now, I think I have a pretty good explanation for why it worked, but I am reluctant to share it with my gf. I don’t want to ruin her good mood. Let me give it to you, just to gauge it’s potential for damage.

Now, if your gf regaining her faith was based on some feel-good experience while meditating, that would worry me too. Feelings like that come and go, and they are not supposed to form the foundation of our faith as Catholics. Faith is based on a rational decision and proofs; we Catholics are not supposed to check our brains with our umbrellas at the entrance, when we enter the church. What if your gf, during her next meditation, will not feel something positive? Will she loose then her faith again? Even the greatest Catholic saints had long periods in their lives when prayer and other religious practice did not make them feel good at all. All they felt was “emptiness”, “dryness”, “darkness”, “the dark night of the senses”, “the dark night of the soul”. God, or his angels or saints did not appear to them. Thus, they had no re-inforcing feel-good sensations or direct supernatural (mystical) experiences for years or decades, but they kept doing what they did, because their faith did not depend on a feel-good experience or direct supernatural (mystical) encounter with God. E.g. Mother Theresa, the nun who took care of sick and dying people in Calcutta, India, persisted in her vocation, and in her faith in God, in spite of the temporal difficulties and any “feelings” or “lack of feelings” she may have experienced.

Faith is more like this - I will give you an example from my mountain climbing experience. You walk towards a distant mountain range, but you are still below the timberline, you are in fact in a dense forest. You have a trusted map and compass, and you know on an intellectual level that you made 25 km, and the peek is still 15 km away. You don’t see the peek, but you know, based on your map, that there’s a storm shelter on top of that peek, which is still 15 km away, in the direction of North-West. You want to reach that shelter, and sleep there tonight. So, what keeps you going, when your mountain peek is out of sight, in fact you can barely see 50 m because of the dense forest, and you are slowly getting tired? Your feelings will play tricks with you. You feel like giving up, or not trusting anymore that there is truly a shelter on the peak of the mountain. So what do you rely on, under those conditions? You have faith that your map is trustworthy, and the rangers or other climbers you met, gave you trustworthy information. That’s faith. As Catholics, our “maps” and “rangers” are God’s revelation through the Bible, and his appointed shepherds - the Pope, Bishops, and Priests. We go based on their trustworthy guidance, not based on what we feel.

Of course you may ask, why do we regard the teachings of our Church and the Bible as trustworthy? Why not Mohammed and Islam? Why not Krishna and Hinduism? There’s no quick answer to that. For a very few people, it’s based on a direct mystical encounter with the supernatural world of God and his angels and saints. But for the vast majority of us, is based on plain old rational-intellectual investigation and search for the truth. Who is right and who is wrong, who is telling lies and who is telling the truth, who is trustworthy and who is not? This is in fact a science, and it’s called theology and apologetics.

 

[flyingfish]

My gf told me about how she regained her faith. As I said earlier, she went to see a psychologist about her loss of faith. The psychologist gave her some meditation exercises to get in touch with her spirituality. Clearly, it worked. Now, I think I have a pretty good explanation for why it worked, but I am reluctant to share it with my gf. I don’t want to ruin her good mood. Let me give it to you, just to gauge it’s potential for damage.

Obviously, her spirituality is entangled with her religious faith. She has, after all, grown up with the catholic faith. Because of this, she will associate her spiritual experiences with the religious dogmas she has been taught. Or more precisely, her spirituality will have specific, religious content. If you look at the experiments with the god helmet (google it), this hypothesis seems quite uncontroversial. You could say that the content or religious faith is really not supported by her spirituality. If she had been taught a different set of dogmas, she would associate them with her spirituality, and see that as confirmation of her beliefs when it really isn’t.

I think you’re probably right. Meditation/prayer/talking to God regularly are the best way to acquire or regain faith.

Frankly speaking, if you’re interested in becoming a believer, the best thing for you to do would be to pray regularly, attend religious services, and meditate. You might think it would be impossible for you to ever believe, but it’s not so. There are accounts of anthropologists who went to study cultures with rather extreme beliefs (like witchcraft) and ended up sharing the beliefs of the culture they initially went to study.

That’s not to say you will intellectually know that theism is definitely true, but you will become an agnostic theist. You will not be sure of its truth, but you will have very strong feelings of its truth and the presence of God.

 

[TOP]

I didn’t receive communion or anything like that, but as far as I understood it, Catholics actually believe that the bread and wine turns into the blood and body of Christ. I have to say that I find that a bit silly.

At the very thought of “this is my Body” followed by the words of the priest, “transubutation” takes place. This mystery was known to be of much interest to Albert Einstien as he talked often and for hours on this subject with priest’s even though he wasn’t Catholic of course. You have to consider a person of faith believes that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, being one with Him in the mystery of the Trinity and what He spoke is objective truth or command. At the last supper He commanded this so and was received, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity by His Apostle’s, but one, Judas, in a state of grave sin, recieved unto his condemnation. It is at that time, satan entered him. So reception of the Lord in the Eucharist is a very serious thing for Catholics and reception in an improper state, that of mortal sin, is the greatest of sacrileges, thus is why Friday is a day of penance, confession is usually Sat. afternoon, then Mass. The Eucharist strengthens, by way of grace, a Catholic for the challenges of the coming week or the next day for a daily communicant. The object is to be in a state of grace for proper reception or if your called home (die). BTW, this one of the teachings most Catholics themselves struggle with calling on the well known Catholic prayer " Lord, I believe, help my disbelief", quoting scripture.

 

[Persuader]

That was an interesting story about Mother Theresa, Joseph. I would have thought she had her affairs in order concerning God. You are right, though, I am a bit worried about my gfs foundations. It seems a bit tenuous for everything to rely on spirituality. Clearly, her faith doesn’t cope very well without this reinforcing element to it. I do think that it is possible to learn meditation techniques to strengthen and stabilize spiritual experience. She is currently learning stuff like that, and maybe it will be enough. However, her faith would probably be more secure if she could accept it on a purely intellectual basis. Problem is, not everyone is convinced by apologetics, and I know she has read some.

Frankly, flyingfish, I am happy with my current world-view. Maybe I could run an intentional self-deception ploy to become religious, but I like to keep integrity and honesty intact. Maybe something will develop naturally, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

We will be going to my parents house for a couple of days before being with her family for the “holy days”. I think we will have to stock up on the intimacy before that visit. Her mother will probably put me in the basement or something. It’s fine to sleep together, right? I will be on my best behavior, I promise

PS: Lib, I know you love me. Stop fighting it, just embrace it.

 

[flyingfish]

Frankly, flyingfish, I am happy with my current world-view. Maybe I could run an intentional self-deception ploy to become religious, but I like to keep integrity and honesty intact. Maybe something will develop naturally, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

I only mentioned it because some atheists wish to believe in God, an afterlife and all that.

Would it be self deception to knowingly engage in behaviors you think will cause you to have a sense of the spiritual realm?

From my experience, people are far less less logical and intellectual than they would like to believe. How often do you meet someone who believes something they don’t like, and wish they could believe something else? It happens, but it’s rare. It’s far more common for people to make emotional choices and later rationalize them with intellect. Most do it while deceiving themselves into believing to be truth-seeking, logical creatures.

Why am I saying all this? Mostly as an argument that there is no shame in self deception, most of us do it all the time. I don’t know if your preference is for a naturalistic worldview or a religious one.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

We will be going to my parents house for a couple of days before being with her family for the “holy days”. I think we will have to stock up on the intimacy before that visit. Her mother will probably put me in the basement or something. It’s fine to sleep together, right? I will be on my best behavior, I promise

No, I wouldn’t count on the basement. Just start rehearsing it now:
-In the doghouse? eek: don’t show that! just put on your most charming smile!)
-Oh, yes ma’am, sure, it’s a privilege that you will allow me to sleep in the doghouse!
-How was the night in the doghouse? Oh, wonderful! It was a very special experience! The stars were sparkling so beautifully in the sky!

• May I put on my hairshirt tonight, while sleeping in the doghouse?

(you know, Persuader, that was the typical penance in the middle ages - whipping yourself with a whip, or wearing a hairshirt)

Btw, it’s not fine to sleep together. Do you want a nice whip, or maybe a hairshirt, as an early Christmas gift? That will help to distract your attention, in case you are having a hard time with self-discipline. LOL

 

[PeterMuz]

Something has happened, and I don’t know what to think. You people will probably be pleased, though…

My gf ambushed me today with an ultimatum. She said that I were to suggest a timeline for marriage before we go to celebrate Christmas or else! That’s by the end of the week! Apparently she had a transformative, religious experience (theosis?) through prayer. I am absolutely shell shocked… I tried to reason with her, but she wouldn’t listen to me. She told me she needed me to show my commitment to our relationship (what is this nonsense?! We’ve been together for less than 10 months!). Then she gave me a list of ground-rules and requests, kissed me and left! I have never felt so confused or conflicted in my entire life…

I haven’t decided if I will call her on her bluff or not. Even though she put up a strong front today, I am not certain she will see it through. I don’t think she will leave me anyway. Deciding on marriage by 20? That’s hard. If I didn’t love her so much, I would kick her to the curb for putting me in this position. Ultimatums are for children.

I have gotten sound advice from some friends about the non-religious stuff, but I really need your help with this list. Is there religious reasons for what she is saying, and how do they relate to the fact that I am only her partner, and not actually catholic myself (I remember some of you said that condoms were fine since I was not a catholic)? Here is the ground-rules:

A: No more sex before marriage.
B: She will not use contraceptives (she apparently made an appointment to remove the Implanon).

These are the requests:

1. No porn.
2. No condoms.
3. I accompany her to some kind of introduction/instruction (I’m unsure about the exact word) at church (do you know what this could be?). (I will ask her more about what this is when she will talk to me)
4. I accompany her to a charity.

I need to find out about this asap, so I can decide what to do about it. I only have a few days to decide. Thanks in advance.

Ultimatums are not for children, they are for people are have strong belief or convictions. Yes there are a ton of religious reasons for the things she has listed as request/requirements. Almost too many to get into on a thread like this. I think her timeline for marriage shows that she still does not understand fully what marriage is all about. Who you will marry is one of the most important decisions you can make in your life, so why rush? that goes for both of you.
But what she is saying is scriptural and her rules fall inline with the Catholic Church. My guess is the reason that you saw the mood change was that she did not feel right about what she was doing and when she decided things needed to change she felt better. Then it probably took a few days for her to confront you about it.

I would say that you go to her with a new time line. Give yourself some time to research. Look at some of the think I mentioned in my last post, post #468 I believe. If you do not believe in God, her rules will seem baseless to you. I really think you would benefit from reading about what is wrong with moral relativism.

The new rules that your gf has are to figure out your priorities. What is more important to you, porn, sex, contraception, being able to create your own moral truth or her.

I will pray for you both. I’m glad to hear the new rules set by your gf, she is to be respected for that. I will say this, what she did was surely not easy. But it would be wise not to rush into marriage, the divorce rate in America is over 50% because people get married without understanding it or agreeing on the “non-negotiables”.

 

[Jesuslives]

Ok, so I won’t dip my fingers into the water again.

I think you misunderstood what I said about taking her down a notch or two. What I meant is that I don’t want to signal to her that she has me whipped, or that she has control of the relationship. Just because I have agreed to various things, doesn’t mean she has me completely wrapped around her finger. .

This is a very immature way to see your relationship… It is not a control game for her she really wants these things because they make her happy and the fact that you are willing to sacrifice for her is a sign that you might actually LOVE her. Not that she has you wrapped around her finger.

You have to stop thinking in that score keeping mentality esp if you ever want to consider marriage.

 

[Jesuslives]

Now, if your gf regaining her faith was based on some feel-good experience while meditating, that would worry me too. Feelings like that come and go, and they are not supposed to form the foundation of our faith as Catholics. Faith is based on a rational decision and proofs; we Catholics are not supposed to check our brains with our umbrellas at the entrance, when we enter the church. What if your gf, during her next meditation, will not feel something positive? Will she loose then her faith again? Even the greatest Catholic saints had long periods in their lives when prayer and other religious practice did not make them feel good at all. All they felt was “emptiness”, “dryness”, “darkness”, “the dark night of the senses”, “the dark night of the soul”. God, or his angels or saints did not appear to them. Thus, they had no re-inforcing feel-good sensations or direct supernatural (mystical) experiences for years or decades, but they kept doing what they did, because their faith did not depend on a feel-good experience or direct supernatural (mystical) encounter with God. E.g. Mother Theresa, the nun who took care of sick and dying people in Calcutta, India, persisted in her vocation, and in her faith in God, in spite of the temporal difficulties and any “feelings” or “lack of feelings” she may have experienced.

While your correct on the feelings aspect of faith, it is not always there. When I was little I didn’t “feel” God but I saw him working in my life. At five years old! I still think everyone is forgetting that FAITH is a gift of God. I do not believe she ever lost her faith at all. I believe the feelings that she may have lost were the Holy Spirit dwelling within her. For me when I am sinning and further from God I feel sad. When I am closer to him though the Holy Spirits love just pours out of me.

 

[PeterMuz]

So, I attended mass with my gf today (with the aftereffects of stomach flu and a proper hangover). It was a strange experience, not entirely unpleasant, but quite boring at times. When entering, you were supposed to wet your fingers in a water bowl, and cross yourself. I did that (awkwardly). Afterwards it was a lot of standing up. And then down, and then up again. Apparently, they couldn’t decide what they wanted. Obviously, I didn’t receive communion or anything like that, but as far as I understood it, Catholics actually believe that the bread and wine turns into the blood and body of Christ. I have to say that I find that a bit silly.

I can understand why it would be boring and seem a little silly. Maybe if you understoof more about the reasons behind what is done in the mass you would enjoy it more. There is a book by Scott Hahn called The Lamb’s Supper that I recommend.

After the mass, there was church coffee (is that normal?), and I was introduced to some people. The people were pleasant enough, even the priest. I didn’t receive the evil eye as far as I could tell. However, my gf was prancing about a little too smug for my liking.

Many Catholic Churches here in America do not do enough stuff like that anymore. It is a great time to socialize/evangelize. Many protestant churches do a better job at this.

My gf told me about how she regained her faith. As I said earlier, she went to see a psychologist about her loss of faith. The psychologist gave her some meditation exercises to get in touch with her spirituality. Clearly, it worked. Now, I think I have a pretty good explanation for why it worked, but I am reluctant to share it with my gf. I don’t want to ruin her good mood. Let me give it to you, just to gauge it’s potential for damage.

The probably when to the psychologist in the first place because she was not as happy and was struggling. The psychologist probably helped her to see why she was feeling the way she was and how certain things can feel good but at the same time cause so much pain. Trust me, she probably feels very relieved to not be the one deciding what is morally right and wrong. That seems like a job that I would not want. Also, as you will come to understand, you are most free when you cooperate with God’s plan for your life. People who realize this often feel a great peace and are much happier for it. Your gf may have been “prancing around” because she finally feels like she is in the right place.

Obviously, her spirituality is entangled with her religious faith. She has, after all, grown up with the catholic faith. Because of this, she will associate her spiritual experiences with the religious dogmas she has been taught. Or more precisely, her spirituality will have specific, religious content. If you look at the experiments with the god helmet (google it), this hypothesis seems quite uncontroversial. You could say that the content or religious faith is really not supported by her spirituality. If she had been taught a different set of dogmas, she would associate them with her spirituality, and see that as confirmation of her beliefs when it really isn’t.

You may be right that she would associate a different set of dogmas with her faith, but the real question is what is really true? Take for instance a terrorist who kills in the name of god. Not everyone who proclaims to have faith in God is acting in his name. What greater trick could the devil play that to have someone believing that he is God?
As far as the god helmet, I think while there is some truth to brain activity with people who say they are having some spiritual encounter, that does not prove anything. The brain reacts different to different levels of happiness or pleasure. Scientists today can recreate that brain activity on a person in a lab with the right stimuli. I would also say that God is not a science experiment. While I do not fully understand the science behind the God helmet, true faith does not depend on certain brain activity or chemical reaction in the brain.

 

[Angel7]

Pope John Paul II said the opposite of love is not hate. (Ever meet two people that initially hated each other and then went on to be happily married 50 years?) The opposite of love, he said is “use.”

I am terrified that one of my children would meet a “persuader” who would destroy a lifetime of values and chortle about it online to strangers, how he convinced her there was no God.
And then tell everyone how he didn’t intend to marry her and she was sad and he liked her because she was hot and all about her orgasms and how much she liked screwing him. And then tell us how many other women and groups of women he used to do that to, and how he was even princely enough to stop banging the friend with benefits he had before her got this one in the sack. And now he has her on birth control (her idea, he claims, but if he had self control, she wouldn’t need birth control.)

You will say “if her faith was deep he couldn’t lead her away.” Well, you then don’t know what happens to innocence and the human heart and how evil people can use the basic desire to be loved and wanted in order to destroy you or the people you love. And how a woman’s first sexual partner can cause a bond she never understood before and she thinks it’s forever (and everyone else knows how this movie ends and it doesn’t look happy from here.)

I think he’s selfish and predatory and he has done nothing but come here and proudly tell us that our suggestion that he stop banging her would be a way to let her see things more realistically. And that is his last resort.

And he plays the victim because the people who love her more than he could ever know don’t like him. (I doubt he knows what real love is. He confuses it with nerve endings. He certainly doesn’t understand what it is to love a child more than your own life and how it causes physical pain to see your child hurting and in danger.)

All he does is argue that we are wrong. His whole life story in all of his 21 years or so is testimony to how right we are. What does he have to show for his life but a trail of used women, used condoms, disappointed and broken hearts and a pile of arrogance reaching to the sky? He has no god but his own private parts, to put it bluntly.

Come back when you have a college age daughter and ask me why I don’t like his kind.

No, sexual sins aren’t the worst, but they’re the easiest ones Satan can use to rope people in to damnation… through dulling them to the role of God in their lives, through killing the life of grace in their soul and God forbid, through the abortion of any hapless children that get in the way of such “passion.”

Because they’re so easy and pleasurable, MORE souls go to hell because of it. But if you read Dante’s Inferno, as he puts those who sin sexually up there with gluttons, maybe they’re in the outer reaches of hell, but they’re in hell for all eternity nonetheless, having traded the love of God for the false promises of Satan and the other Persuaders of the world.

Has he come here and said he has changed anything? No. Has he taken responsibility for his corruption of an innocent girl? NO.

He’s only sorry because she was sad for a while. But once she’s happy again, he can use her with no problem. You’d have to have a conscience for that.

She was raised to believe sex was part of a forever love. He is incapable of that as he is now. This is a very predictable situation. And he seems determined to tell us our values are based on lies because he doesn’t FEEL what we believe is right.

He has convinced me there is only one “feeling” that he cares about in this world. I hurt for the family that has lost their daughter to this man. She is in sexual bondage to him and thinks it’s willing. But she isn’t free to walk away from him. She doesn’t even know she’s in bondage to him. He has the capacity to set her free but he won’t.

You ask me why I don’t like him?

come on!

This story is a tragedy, I WANT to weep for this poor girl…

You know… I think I remember a story of a Saint. There were two Bishops walking, there they saw a girl (prostitute). One Bishop looked away, the Other Bishop looked straight ahead. The one Bishop said to the other, “You musn’t look, that was a prostitu-”. There were tears coming from the other Bishop’s eyes. He said something on the lines of “it is a shame to see such beauty be misused”. The Prostitute who saw the powerful, and compassionit gaze of the Bishop became a Saint, after changing her life.

Here are some quotes to…

“May I give you some advice for you to put into practice daily? When your heart makes you feel those low cravings, say slowly to the Immaculate Virgin: Look on me with compassion. Don’t abandon me. Don’t abandon me, my Mother! – And recommend this prayer to others.”
-St. Josemaria Escriva

“When you see the storm coming, if you seek safety in that firm refuge which is Mary, there will be no danger of your wavering or going down.”
-St. Josemaria Escriva

“Only after the Last Judgment will Mary get any rest; from now until then, she is much too busy with her children.”
-St. John Vianney

“To serve the Queen of Heaven is already to reign there, and to live under her commands is more than to govern.”
-St. John Vianney

(These were from the “Chastity” section of this website.

 

[flyingfish]

I will pray for you both. I’m glad to hear the new rules set by your gf, she is to be respected for that. I will say this, what she did was surely not easy.** But it would be wise not to rush into marriage**, the divorce rate in America is over 50% because people get married without understanding it or agreeing on the “non-negotiables”.

This is all too true in this case, since the OP and his girlfriend are so young. How often do marriages started so young fail? Does anyone really think that Persuader will want to live without sex, later without birth control (even though the Church teaches it’s okay for her to have sex with a contracepting spouse, she seems to want to go farther than the requirement and has said no condoms), raise children Catholic and all that?

Can a 20/21 year old guy even know himself well enough to decide that? It would be very sad if they got married, he later said it wasn’t for him anymore and left, and she was stuck for the rest of her life since the Church does not allow remarriage.

 

[agapewolf]

This is all too true in this case, since the OP and his girlfriend are so young. How often do marriages started so young fail? Does anyone really think that Persuader will want to live without sex, later without birth control (even though the Church teaches it’s okay for her to have sex with a contracepting spouse, she seems to want to go farther than the requirement and has said no condoms), raise children Catholic and all that?

e.

You seem to bring this point up a lot. It seems that maybe you don’t understand the idea of objective truth. Even though the church, in her charity, will say its not sinful for a Catholic to participate in sexual relations if the other spouse uses contraception, does not mean that there is no harm. It is still an objectively evil thing. It still does grave harm, and can still seriously harm the marriage. It still puts a barrier up between the spouses. It still has the effects on the couple whether the one person is culpable to the use or not.

No way would I marry someone who wanted to use contraception, because they would be using me. She is not going “farther” than the requirement. She is protecting herself from being used.

 

[flyingfish]

**You seem to bring this point up a lot. **It seems that maybe you don’t understand the idea of objective truth. Even though the church, in her charity, will say its not sinful for a Catholic to participate in sexual relations if the other spouse uses contraception, does not mean that there is no harm. It is still an objectively evil thing. It still does grave harm, and can still seriously harm the marriage. It still puts a barrier up between the spouses. It still has the effects on the couple whether the one person is culpable to the use or not.

No way would I marry someone who wanted to use contraception, because they would be using me. She is not going “farther” than the requirement. She is protecting herself from being used.

In threads about relationships where one partner disagrees with the faithful Catholic about contraception.

In these cases, this information can be relationship saving in my opinion. I personally think it would be wrong of me not to say anything in a situation like this, or one where the Catholic party feels they cannot engage in marital relations when the Church actually allows them to.