Relationship of Spiritual World to Physical One

[Weareyoung]

True or false?
The spiritual world cannot be conceived in its fullness with our physical human eyes, but at the same time God does have the power to manifest parts of it (miraculously) in a way that can be clearly conceivable with our physical human eyes (if for some reason He chooses to).

 

[PaddyMac]

That seems true to me. However, I can’t help but wonder what the reason for the question is. Please share your reason for asking. There may be more than a simple “true” or “false,” “yes” or “no.” I suspect you already have a follow-up question in mind.

 

[Sair]

Here are a few follow-up questions for the OP, and anyone else who may like to weigh in: If we can’t conceive the ‘fullness’ of the spiritual world (as, I gather, many religions claim we cannot, in our ‘earth-bound’ condition), how can we possibly be in a position to claim that any such ‘spiritual’ world exists? What are its characteristics that definitively cannot be explained by natural means? How, if we are constrained by our senses and by the physical manifestation of our minds/bodies (assuming that this is legitimately a limitation when we don’t know everything there is to be known about physical/natural reality), can we have any real evidence of a world beyond the physical, and why might we have any need to believe there is one? And if there is, by what means does the spiritual realm interact with the physical realm? Descartes thought that it might - at least in terms of human duality - be via the pineal gland, but I gather that hypothesis has been discredited…

 

[Weareyoung]

At the Transfiguration of Jesus, were the disciples seeing what Jesus spiritually actually looks like or were they only seeing the best possible (for absolute complete lack of a better phrase) “symbolic representation” (or translation) of what Jesus Spiritually looks like?

Also at Pentecost when the disciples were seen with “Tongues of Fire” over their heads I am asking the same exact question.

And finally at the Annunciation of the Angel Gabriel to Our Blessed Mother, assuming she actually saw something with her physical eyes would it have been the best possible “symbolic representation” (translation) or is it what Gabriel spiritually looks like?

The answer to the questions may be completely different when we are dealing with visions of Persons (I almost said “parts” but that’s a definite flawed theological understanding) of the Trinity (God the Son at Transfiguration and God the Holy Spirit at Pentecost) than we deal with angels or other Spiritual things/beings that aren’t God.

Is it possible that observing Spiritual Reality could potentially be observed with a sense (like sight in a way) but one that exists on an unimaginably higher dimensional level? (It would be easier to get a perfect understanding of what it’s like to physically see in a world where no one has ever had the sense of sight than to know what it’s like to feel this higher dimensional spiritual sense.)
But it would also be a fuller and truer sense than physical human sight.

I was watching something about the shroud of Turin and they say that only a form of “radiation” we know nothing about could have produced an image of the Risen Lord on the shroud. It’s similar to the Gnostic concept of how the Spiritual and physical world are completely different… just without all the heresy.

 

[Weareyoung]

Here are a few follow-up questions for the OP, and anyone else who may like to weigh in: If we can’t conceive the ‘fullness’ of the spiritual world (as, I gather, many religions claim we cannot, in our ‘earth-bound’ condition), how can we possibly be in a position to claim that any such ‘spiritual’ world exists? What are its characteristics that definitively cannot be explained by natural means? How, if we are constrained by our senses and by the physical manifestation of our minds/bodies (assuming that this is legitimately a limitation when we don’t know everything there is to be known about physical/natural reality), can we have any real evidence of a world beyond the physical, and why might we have any need to believe there is one? And if there is, by what means does the spiritual realm interact with the physical realm? Descartes thought that it might - at least in terms of human duality - be via the pineal gland, but I gather that hypothesis has been discredited…

I’d like to keep the focus of this thread on the Catholic understanding, although bringing up aspects of non-Catholic philosophy and non-Catholics commenting is still perfectly acceptable. But I would like to get a better understanding of this relationship after having established that some individuals have in fact seen “visions” or other manifestations of the spiritual world with their physical eyes.

 

[grannymh]

True or false?
The spiritual world cannot be conceived in its fullness with our physical human eyes, but at the same time God does have the power to manifest parts of it (miraculously) in a way that can be clearly conceivable with our physical human eyes (if for some reason He chooses to).

It is not necessary to see our spiritual soul with our own physical human eyes in order to know that it exists. Neither is it necessary to see the fullness of the spiritual world with our own physical human eyes in order to know that it exists.

 

[Weareyoung]

It is not necessary to see our spiritual soul with our own physical human eyes in order to know that it exists. Neither is it necessary to see the fullness of the spiritual world with our own physical human eyes in order to know that it exists.

I agree in full. But that is not the point. I would like to better understand what people are actually seeing in the instances when God does choose to allow people to see (manifestations of) spiritual reality.

 

[grannymh]

I agree in full. But that is not the point. I would like to better understand what people are actually seeing in the instances when God does choose to allow people to see (manifestations of) spiritual reality.

Sorry, I misunderstood. My apology, again, since I have no clue what other people see (manifestations of) spiritual reality. As for me personally, I am happy to see the Eucharist.