Relationship with Christ

  • Thread starter Thread starter zach_dunn
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Z

zach_dunn

Guest
Hello!

This is more of a question for Protestants. Could you guys give me a definition of “having a personal relationship with Christ”? Do you mean just praying to Him and such?

I’ve also heard some Protestants say that all the “doctrines and dogmas of Catholicism” get in the way of having a personal relationship with Christ. My question is, how so?

One last question, do you guys pray directly to the Holy Spirit? If not, why?

Thanks for answering!

Pax,
Zach
 
having a personal relationship with Christ is definitely more than that…but I’ll try and get to that later, right now I’m too tired to figure out a way to explain it understandibly 🙂

I have heard some people say the rituals of Catholicism can get in the way of having a personal relationship with Christ. If I understand them correctly, they mean that sometimes people put too much emphasis on the rituals and not enough on Jesus. That they spend more time following the rituals than developing a relationship with Him. Although when I have heard people say this, they also agree that this is certainly not true for all Catholics.

as for praying directly to the Holy Spirit…hmmm I can’t recall a specific example of doing so…honestly I’m not sure, I’ve never really thought of that before
 
Personally, for me, it doesn’t get much more personal than receiving Christ in the Eucharist. Catholic Mass is a VERY intimate and personal experience if done properly. Sorry, I know that’s not the answer you were looking for, but that’s my take on it.
 
sodak said:
Personally, for me, it doesn’t get much more personal than receiving Christ in the Eucharist. Catholic Mass is a VERY intimate and personal experience if done properly. Sorry, I know that’s not the answer you were looking for, but that’s my take on it.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you there, but I guess Protestants can’t appreciate that because they don’t believe in the Eucharist…
sarah1992 said:
I have heard some people say the rituals of Catholicism can get in the way of having a personal relationship with Christ. If I understand them correctly, they mean that sometimes people put too much emphasis on the rituals and not enough on Jesus. That they spend more time following the rituals than developing a relationship with Him. Although when I have heard people say this, they also agree that this is certainly not true for all Catholics.
Click to expand...
First of all, I don’t quite understand which rituals “take away” from Christ, if they believe the Mass is too “ritualistic” and takes away from Christ, they are sadly mistaken. The Mass consists of three readings from the Bible (more than any Protestant church I’ve been to ;)), plus, responsorial Psalms (Bible), many, many prayers, and the last third of Mass is doing what Christ instructed us to do “. . . Do this in remembrance of me.” Then, after the re-representation of the sacrifice on Calvary, we actually recieve Jesus Christ into our bodies, how can you get anymore intimately connected than that?
sarah1992 said:
as for praying directly to the Holy Spirit…hmmm I can’t recall a specific example of doing so…honestly I’m not sure, I’ve never really thought of that before
Click to expand...
Well, what I really want to know is if you would object to it. I read a big argument about it on a different forum. Could Catholics answer this question too? I want to know which Catholics don’t believe you should pray to the Holy Spirit, if there are any…

Pax,
Zach

P.S. Welcome to the forum Sarah, well, a very late welcome. Thanks for your post!
 
zach_dunn said:
First of all, I don’t quite understand which rituals “take away” from Christ, if they believe the Mass is too “ritualistic” and takes away from Christ, they are sadly mistaken.
Click to expand...
well, I don’t exactly know, seeing as I don’t personally believe that. But many of the people I’ve heard say this don’t get Catholicism at all, they don’t know the point of any of the rituals. I don’t want to say anymore about that because I don’t want to be speaking for other people, and of course this isn’t true for all Protestants.

I don’t see what would be wrong with praying to the Holy Spirit…
 
I’m not protestant, so I can’t really speak for all of them, but I have had this conversation with my hubby and his family more than once.

First, not all Catholics let rituals, rules and traditions get in the way of any kind of personal relationship. And you are right that the protestant understanding of the Eucharist is not the same as a Catholics.

But, what I gather from these conversations is that some protestants feel that the whole idea of a hierarchy is wrong. They feel that one should answer to no one but God, and that by blindly following (their words not mine) a man that claims to be infallible is putting man above God. Some believe that going through confession, as a ritual, instead of going straight to Him, is denying a personal relationship. Some are just assuming, since perhaps some of the Catholics they have known, will “blindly” follow the teachings of the Catholic Church without bothering to understand the reasoning behind these teachings, that again they place man above God. Some are (perhaps rightly?) so upset that the Church has never apologized for historical wrongdoing, and object harshly the idea that the Pope is anything more than just a man, with the rationalization that if one pope made some serious mistakes and acted in decidedly ungodly ways, then the idea that any pope is always right doesn’t sit well with them. Some of them have no idea what they mean, they are just spouting off something they heard at Church without having any idea why.

Personally, for me, I find the ritual (of Mass) soothing. I see the unvarying ritual of Mass as a way to get myself in that “space” that allows me to focus on God. But that is just me. However, I am seriously starting to question the authority of the Church, since so many of the “rules” seem to be somewhat petty and not grounded in Christian love, and I feel that there is a lot of covering up of past mistakes instead of just owning up to the fact that some popes were not men of God.
 
zach_dunn said:
I completely agree with you there, but I guess Protestants can’t appreciate that because they don’t believe in the Eucharist…
Click to expand...
Don’t paint with too broad a brush. Lutherans accept the real presence, although not in the same way as we do. 🙂

As far as the OP’s question, I’d echo what others have written. As a former Lutheran protestant, in my experience the “personal” relationship seems to mean a direct one-to-one experience, not mediated in any way through an institution, ritual or rite.

Funny, because now as a Catholic I feel like I experience Christ more directly than ever through the Eucharist.
 
To demonstrate in our daily lives the rhythm and harmony that a relationship with Christ establishes, I feel one needs to yield to the presence and authority of God. At the present moment we have forgotten our relationship with Christ due to our interaction with material energy and because of this forgetfulness we face many problems so we need to reawaken our original God consciousness. I feel this makes us happy. The solution is not material happiness, but to get out of the material condition by becoming aware of the living spiritual Christ. It is imperative that we look at creation in another way from the standpoint of the consciousness of Christ, rather than considering creation and life from a material perspective. This realization that Christ is always with us guiding every thought to our true existence is a spiritual relationship with Christ. Christ recognized that God is present everywhere. This concept or relationship with Christ is active in our daily lives even though it is invisible to the material senses. Everyone is different so the relationship is different. I tried to explain mine, but that may differ from others.
 
I wonder if you are sure that you have a personal relationship with Jesus, or if you have doubts. In John.1.12,13 and John 3.3-8 it says that you need to be born again, born of the Spirit. Some Christians know the day they were born again, others have experienced their coming to Christ as a gradual process. I would say that if one knows that one has been born again and if one loves Jesus, one also has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
 
As one who grew up around Funamentalist beliefs what i recall was hearing a lot about personal Relation’s with Jesus but truthfully it seemed to me like it was more of a claim than a real feeling. I’ve been Catholic now for 40 yrs and not most of the time a very active nor good one but this i know and that is i have a Priest who stands in Christ place and offers Christ forgiveness when i confess my sins and a Eucharist that i do not know how when we recieve Christ Body and Blood it could be any more personal as he is in us and we in him. As for Prayer i would love to hear some one explain to me how our orderly rituals make it less effective…
 
The business about rituals getting in the way of a relationship with Christ… maybe they’re thinking in human terms. Like it’s hard to be close to a person when you have all kinds of rules governing your behaviour and words when you are around that person.
But remember… God’s ways may seem foolish to certain people. That’s in the Bible (can’t remember where). And God is far more interested in having a relationship with us than we can ever be. Do you think God will not alert you in one way or another if you are letting devotionals, laws and rituals get in the way? Especially since these are created in the first place to bring you closer with God?
 
When I was Protestant I thought that having a personal relationship with Christ meant that a person felt the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives. If you felt at peace, then you had a relation ship with Christ.

As far as rituals getting in the way, does the ritual of standing and placing your hand over your heart during the National Anthem get in the way of an individual respecting their country? Of course not. 🤷
 
i find that the divisions are more harmful than helpful, and that we, acting like “mere” humans, gravitate towards them.

“What is Apollo? Who is Paul?!.. are you not yet carnal?”

If we are a body (regardless of what we say; God’s word and reality stands) then we must communicate to one another our ministries: imagine the liver denying its service to the heart… this would end in catastrophe. No, we must appreciate one another, and we must love the truth that is not friendly to us, ourselves, but that (more importantly than turth being partial to our selves’ interests) ends in peace. This is the “…rock that is higher than I…” spoken of by David: the truth that is above me. Amen.

A relationship with Christ vs. Dead “Rituals” (not Christianity vs Catholicism, since dead rituals are possible in either one of those) is obvious: one is a living relationship with the one who enthralls your heart - and you love Him and spend your days WITH HIM, and you do what He asks you to do, not focusing on yourself but on Him, because you prefer Him over your own life… that is having a relationship with Jesus Christ. Obviously, “dead rituals” - even preaching, singing, clapping, dancing, prophesying, miracles, even contemplating, praying, envisioning, etc., are void of the breath of life Christ breathes into you as you love Jesus and do what He says.
“Those who love Me are those who keep My commandments.”
If I do not honor His written word, I will not have His love abiding in me.

What a wonderful question - provoking good thoughts 🙂
The hearts of those who belong to God: bow before Jesus Christ, loving Him!
 
dan1el said:
iA relationship with Christ vs. Dead “Rituals” (not Christianity vs Catholicism, since dead rituals are possible in either one of those) is obvious: one is a living relationship with the one who enthralls your heart - and you love Him and spend your days WITH HIM, and you do what He asks you to do, not focusing on yourself but on Him, because you prefer Him over your own life… that is having a relationship with Jesus Christ. Obviously, “dead rituals” - even preaching, singing, clapping, dancing, prophesying, miracles, even contemplating, praying, envisioning, etc., are void of the breath of life Christ breathes into you as you love Jesus and do what He says.
“Those who love Me are those who keep My commandments.”
If I do not honor His written word, I will not have His love abiding in me.

What a wonderful question - provoking good thoughts 🙂
The hearts of those who belong to God: bow before Jesus Christ, loving Him!
Click to expand...
You make a good point about ‘dead rituals’ We can not enter another’s heart so we can not claim which rituals are dead. A little, Catholic Grandmother saying the rosay with her whole heart on Jesus is not conducting a dead ritual.🙂
 
whoops! I meant that those things (clapping, dancing, etc.,) COULD BE dead rituals, although they may also be full of the life of Christ. Also, Christ fills every normal daily activity with “joy unspeakable and full of glory” when you KNOW HIM: “…some have not the knowledge of God - I say this to your shame…” So, the goal and aim is to KNOW CHRIST; not KNOW KNOWLEDGE ABOUT CHRIST

Jesus told Peter He was going to wash his (Peter’s) feet. Peter said “no, lord!” Jesus said, “If I don’t, you have nothing to do with Me.” Peter replied, “If you are going to wash my feet, wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head, as well!” Jesus responded, “One who has washed needs only to wash his feet, and he is completely clean.” What is it talking about?..

feet (our walk with Jesus Christ) ~ THIS ALONE makes us “clean/acceptable before God” Rev 3:2]. You can have good works and a head full of knowledge, but without the walk, you are a dried up branch and will be thrown into the fire. J 15
hands (our works) ~ you can have works but no walk with Christ (like some Muslims, Buddhists, etc., and since you are not in relationship with Christ, you are NOT “CLEAN/acceptable before God”) like the Pharisees, as well, who were from the same “religion” as Jesus was!
head (our knowledge, to “know” all knowledge & mysteries & doctrine) ~ you can have plenty of knowledge, like the Pharisees, and yet HATE Jesus, because knowledge puffs you up, but Christ will humble you. If you love glory and praise, you cannot love Jesus, because He will make you envious because He will take all the praise and honor and glory, like He did with the Pharisees.

Only the relationship with Jesus is necessary… how beautiful… is that “liberty” applied properly?.. lol

We are acceptable to God when we are in relationship with Jesus Christ, when we KNOW HIM, not works separate from Him (not that ALL works are separate from Him, OF COURSE) or in knowing all knowledge about God. Trust me on this one, I’ve lived and learned it first hand.
What is that thing they say? “Taught wisdom is better than bought wisdom.” ? lol Learn from someone who has learned - that is the advantage of the Catholic church, as well.
 
dan1el said:
whoops! I meant that those things (clapping, dancing, etc.,) COULD BE dead rituals, although they may also be full of the life of Christ. Also, Christ fills every normal daily activity with “joy unspeakable and full of glory” when you KNOW HIM: “…some have not the knowledge of God - I say this to your shame…” So, the goal and aim is to KNOW CHRIST; not KNOW KNOWLEDGE ABOUT CHRIST

Jesus told Peter He was going to wash his (Peter’s) feet. Peter said “no, lord!” Jesus said, “If I don’t, you have nothing to do with Me.” Peter replied, “If you are going to wash my feet, wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head, as well!” Jesus responded, “One who has washed needs only to wash his feet, and he is completely clean.” What is it talking about?..

feet (our walk with Jesus Christ) ~ THIS ALONE makes us “clean/acceptable before God” Rev 3:2]. You can have good works and a head full of knowledge, but without the walk, you are a dried up branch and will be thrown into the fire. J 15
hands (our works) ~ you can have works but no walk with Christ (like some Muslims, Buddhists, etc., and since you are not in relationship with Christ, you are NOT “CLEAN/acceptable before God”) like the Pharisees, as well, who were from the same “religion” as Jesus was!
head (our knowledge, to “know” all knowledge & mysteries & doctrine) ~ you can have plenty of knowledge, like the Pharisees, and yet HATE Jesus, because knowledge puffs you up, but Christ will humble you. If you love glory and praise, you cannot love Jesus, because He will make you envious because He will take all the praise and honor and glory, like He did with the Pharisees.

Only the relationship with Jesus is necessary… how beautiful… is that “liberty” applied properly?.. lol

We are acceptable to God when we are in relationship with Jesus Christ, when we KNOW HIM, not works separate from Him (not that ALL works are separate from Him, OF COURSE) or in knowing all knowledge about God. Trust me on this one, I’ve lived and learned it first hand.
What is that thing they say? “Taught wisdom is better than bought wisdom.” ? lol Learn from someone who has learned - that is the advantage of the Catholic church, as well.
Click to expand...
 
Amen Dan1el!

Here is my two cents worth, which isprobably it’s value .

you are in relationship with God, when you (“know God” - Greek translationof know is intimacy) It is an intimate relationship of love. .
4 And when he hath let out his own sheep, he goeth before them: and the sheep follow him, because they “know” his voice. 14 I am the good shepherd: and I “know” mine, and mine “know”: me John 10

Some “people” are quick to criticize and condemn the Catholic church or its doctrines, rituals and beliefs out of sheer ignorance or at times sheer arrogance. Modern day Pharisees! (a self-righteous, hypocritical, or sanctimonious person) I love my Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ. I believe it is those who are “Christian” in name only who
cause the most controversy.
 
Catholics do pray directly to the Holy Spirit. The major examples are Veni Creator in the West, and “O Heavenly King…” in the East.

The entire text of that byzantine prayer:

“O Heavenly King Consoler, Spirit of Truth, present in all places and filling all things, the Treasury of blessings and the Giver of life, come, O Good One, and dwell in us, cleanse us of all stain and save our souls”.
 
a relationship with Christ?

would be one like a marriage. you communicate with Christ through prayer and He through the Word. you walk with Him daily getting to know Him to please Him, sacrificing one’s body to become more like Him.

take the disciples for example: for 3 years they walked with our Lord, learning from Him, now one of them would venture off away from the others and we know what happened to him. as long as we stay in the Word and on our knees, praising Him constantly and worshipping Him in Spirit, we start to have a relationship with Him. we will never though be perfect in our walk with the Lord as the disciples were not perfect and they physically were present with Him.

in a marriage if a couple doesn’t communicate they drift apart and the enemy starts to work that to his advantage in separating what God has joined together. if one truly has believed in the Gospel of Jesus and repented of their sins, then the desire to know Him would be there in the presence of the Holy Spirit.

God bless you.
 
yes, how wonderful is a personal relationship with the blessed Trinity ! one must ask oneself however, how do i know i’m not engaging in self deception? i believe entering into the mind of His church is entering into Jesus. careful now Eternal Life or death is at stake.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top