Relatively few catholics prefer the TLM

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Beret said:
This really is a time of reckoning for lovers of the Tridentine Mass in my diocese. For years they almost seemed to subsist on hatred stemming from being denied the Tridentine Mass. With the new bishop that has all changed yet they are not supporting the Masses.
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Of course it has only been 4 months since Summorrum Pontificum went into effect.

Now, if in 4 years there is no support in your diocese then it might actually mean something. But, 4 months? Considering that the TLM was effectively banned for 40 years (and often belittled be the clergy) the number of people who attend in your diocese is probably pretty impressive.

James
 
Beret said:
While I think both the Tridentine Mass and motu proprio are wonderful things, it’s well within the Church’s purview to “impose” liturgies on the people – we don’t poll the faithful. It’s certainly not tactful or perhaps even wise, but it’s certainly within the Church’s authority to do so.

This really is a time of reckoning for lovers of the Tridentine Mass in my diocese. For years they almost seemed to subsist on hatred stemming from being denied the Tridentine Mass. With the new bishop that has all changed yet they are not supporting the Masses.
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I agree that it is well within the Church’s authority to impose a wholesale change to the liturgy as was done in the 1960’s.
 
It does no good and considerable harm to the faithful to argue that the liturgy is a creature of mere whim that can be wiped out tomorrow with the stroke of a pen.
 
AlexV said:
It does no good and considerable harm to the faithful to argue that the liturgy is a creature of mere whim that can be wiped out tomorrow with the stroke of a pen.
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Are you suggesting that is what the Church has done at any time in history with any of the assorted liturgies that have been used??
 
AlexV said:
It does no good and considerable harm to the faithful to argue that the liturgy is a creature of mere whim that can be wiped out tomorrow with the stroke of a pen.
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Well, I see your point. However, it does seem as that is precisely what was attempted with the introduction of the NO.
 
I am asserting that the Consilium of the 1960s FABRICATED a liturgy that was subsequently imposed on Roman Rite Catholics, followed by a period of time where the liturgy of centuries was de facto banned throughout virtually all of the Roman Rite.
 
James0235 said:
Of course it has only been 4 months since Summorrum Pontificum went into effect.

Now, if in 4 years there is no support in your diocese then it might actually mean something. But, 4 months? Considering that the TLM was effectively banned for 40 years (and often belittled be the clergy) the number of people who attend in your diocese is probably pretty impressive.

James
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***There was supposedly a FLOOD of folks interested/waiting for the MP - the flood had not appeared.

And this has been the talk for nearly the whole time since the indult was written.

Why wait anymore than 4 - 6 months?***
 
4-6 months is enough time in YOUR mind. Fortunately, you don’t make the rules.
 
Correct. And the MONARCH has spoken. Case closed. Notwithstanding your hatred for this liturgy.
 
ac_claire said:
I don’t understand:
The priests, etc. who told the laity that the TLM was illlegal back then…Did they truly believe that was true or were they purposefully misleading?
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AlexV said it well (as summarized by universalindult):
"AlexV:
The bottom line usually is, people were lied to…intentionally or unintentionally. …
More deceit, in other words, intentional or unintentional. Some opponents of this liturgy are indeed malicious. Others are just ignorant…and they wield their ignorance like a sword.
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ac claire said:
And is this quote from B16 the first time that anyone’s pointed out that the old mass was never outlawed?

Thanks!
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I believe several Cardinals had said it previously. But this is the first time a Pope has acknowledged it.

And, to my knowledge, no one has ever produced any document from the Church which actually abrogated the 1962 Missal.

Pope Paul VI promulgated the Novus Ordo Missae with the Apostolic Constitution Missale Romanum. And it does not mention that the former Missal is abrogated.

James
 
Annibale Bugnini requested a Decree of Abrogation in 1974. The request was denied. He laments in his book on the liturgy that such a decree was never issued, because he said it gave traditionalists the idea the Missal of 1962 had never been abrogated.

Well duh, Hannibal. That’s exactly the point. You didn’t get your way.
 
AlexV said:
I am asserting that the Consilium of the 1960s FABRICATED a liturgy that was subsequently imposed on Roman Rite Catholics, followed by a period of time where the liturgy of centuries was de facto banned throughout virtually all of the Roman Rite.
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Before anyone criticizes you for this statement, they would do well to recall that Cardinal Ratzinger not only asserted that the liturgy to which you refer was fabricated, but also that it was banal.
 
AlexV said:
4-6 months is enough time in YOUR mind. Fortunately, you don’t make the rules.
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***But where are the large numbers of faithful just waiting for this?

Now it seems the move is to try to drum up new people after a rather poor turnout of those - who drove the petitions etc - claiming to be attached to this mass.***
 
TMGallyon85 said:
A priest who is a resident at our parish wrote in a letter to our county paper claiming that the religion writer for our paper was right about the TLM being allowed more. He also stated correctly how that a local SSPX group was not in connection with Rome. But where I disagreed was where he cited some poll saying that more people preferred the pauline rite and that “relatively few” prferred to attend the TLM. The same priest has also claimed multiple times in our parish bulletin that few people understood latin so that is why they got rid of the TLM. 😦 Does it ever end? Maybe few people actually prefer it because many never experienced it.
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In order to get something out of the TLM you must be spiritual. For those who are more attached to this matierial world then the next the New Mass is more to their liking. In the new mass you worship each other; in the TLM you worship God.
 
universalindult said:
Before anyone criticizes you for this statement, they would do well to recall that Cardinal Ratzinger not only asserted that the liturgy to which you refer was fabricated, but also that it was banal.
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Since, as pope, he has opted to keep it the primary liturgy to be used I wonder if he now regrets saying that.
 
There is ZERO ban on “new people” and this liturgy.

Cardinal Mahony made that claim in 1990. He was corrected by the Vatican.

As for “large numbers”, read the previous tiresome threads on this subject. You ban something for 40 years and then act surprised that after 4 months there aren’t lines around the street?

How’s that Novus Ordo attendance going, anyway? In some parts of the western world something like 2% of Catholics even bother to show up.
 
fatima1917 said:
In order to get something out of the TLM you must be spiritual. For those who are more attached to this matierial world then the next the New Mass is more to their liking. In the new mass you worship each other; in the TLM you worship God.
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That generalization is neither fair nor accurate.
 
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