Relatives 'wimpy' on moral/Church issues

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Thank you all for your thoughts. I started this post, and must sign off now because of time constraints. (Job/family/class I am taking) Just want to remind everyone to ‘keep the faith.’ Please do not be misled by those on the Left (for example Michael Moore, the Clintons, Obama, Gore,etc.) who love to try to convince us they will ‘help’ us and help the unfortunate in this country. Look at Obama. He voted against saving a babies who survive ‘botched’ abortions. Has been voted MOST liberal in the Senate. Says he now wishes he would have voted against saving the life of Terry Schiavo. Yet I saw a picture of him holding an infant. These people are liberal extremists. Don’t believe for a moment they truly care-it’s power, control and socialist enslavement they want. Please don’t be deceived. If they were ‘good’ people they would not be proabortion, etc. A little OT, I know, but I am really concerned about well-intentioned Catholics who believe the extreme Left has good in mind. Don’t believe it for a second. Signing off… God bless and protect you all!
 
And just how long do you suppose they continued to live that way?
Not sure, but I think they still live somewhat like that in the upper levels. I’m sure the Pope has few personal possessions. I also know of some religious communities where there is no individual ownership.

Now don’t get me wrong, I would hate to live in a worldly communist system. I believe that a capitalist form of government is the only way to go.

I also think we need to realize that Jesus never went to the Sanhedrin and asked the government to legislate morality. He never went to the Roman Senate and asked for legislation. Jesus knew that the only way to effect true change is to change the hearts of men. When someone’s heart is changed by the Holy Spirit, they will live correctly, legislation or not.

I believe that we need to defend life, and have no problem with overturing Roe v. Wade. I have no problem with legislation defending life. However, I think we need to work on bringing Jesus into the hearts of others first, then work on legislation.
 
Is there something wrong with being a left wing Catholic? I am not yet Catholic but I’m very left wing (aside from issues like abortion- I’m totally against that). I love my socialized health care. Without free health care I probably wouldn’t be getting any prenatal care for my pregnancy at all…
But I don’t think that really matters… I mean, religion is seperate from politics, right? Couldn’t one be either a democrat or a republican and still a good Catholic?
 
With this in mind one needs to look at how the agendas of enviornmentalists have impacted the less fortunate. An example is ethanol promotion. I live in the largest corn growing sector on the planet…Farmers are RAPING the land to get as much corn in the ground as possible…right up to the ends of the fencerows…and CHEMICALS CHEMICALS and more Chemicals are applied to the fields to boost production…al the while demand skyrockets due to the “GREEN” fuel of ethanol…More and more grain is going into gastanks instead of empty stomachs in Africa. Many humanitarian missions are now not able to have grain to give to the hungry…all because of the MYTH of human caused global warming. To say we are causing it is an absolute HOAX.
 
Is there something wrong with being a left wing Catholic? I am not yet Catholic but I’m very left wing (aside from issues like abortion- I’m totally against that). I love my socialized health care. Without free health care I probably wouldn’t be getting any prenatal care for my pregnancy at all…
But I don’t think that really matters… I mean, religion is seperate from politics, right? Couldn’t one be either a democrat or a republican and still a good Catholic?
They must think we are total socialists up in Canada eh? I mean, our health care system is killing people! We should be looking at US style health care… it is the more Catholic thing to do. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Oh and I guess we should have sent troops to Iraq too.

We shouldn’t let the governments take control of our lives, let’s let the corporations do that instead. They also seem to have a better handle on our environment. :rolleyes:

Let’s also put all governments and schools of thought that is one step left of the Republican party and call it “Socialism” and pronounce that it is unCatholic.
 
Michael Moore/Al Gore - there is nothing immoral about liking some of their viewpoints. Standing up for the small person, protecting the environment… being against capitalism… there is nothing morally wrong with this?
Sina,

I think one of the problems that many people have with Al Gore is that his environmental viewpoint is hypocritical. He may talk about protecting the environment, but in his personal actions he walks a different walk.

President Bush heats his Texas ranch with geothermal energy. Al Gore uses natural gas, and his house consumes more energy then the average American house uses in one year. Source: snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

I am a conservative. However, my house is about 75% flourescent lighting. I use solar lights outside so they are not on the electric grid. I do not water my lawn and aside from a little browning in August, it does quite well. All of my shrubs are native to the region and require nothing but trimming. My roof is black so as to absorb as much solar energy as possible for heating. All of my appliances are energy efficient.

I don’t know why people talk about conservatives not wanting to protect the environment. In fact, I know many liberals who are totally against nuclear energy, even though it’s far more environmentally safer then many of the alternatives. All of the waste could be buried in a very small site for years to come. Certainly better then all of that CO2 emitted by other power plants. With sufficient nuclear power, America could perhaps go to plug in hybrid cars and really start using less gas.

As far as standing up for the small person, conservatives generally support finding people work. We don’t believe in the government supporting able bodied healthy people who can work. Was it not St. Paul who said if someone will not work, let him not eat? I don’t think he was arguing for starvation, but making a point that people need to work. I am a small person. I am your typical average nobody here, and I do quite well in this country. I am very thankful.

However, I do agree with you that there is nothing sinfull in which side you pick. It’s just that we think differently. I also agree with you that our foreign policy is far to aggressive. Not only are we spending waaaay to much money, but I think we should become far more isolationist. There is no need for us to be involved in the affairs in other countries as much as we are. If there is a civil war, the best thing to do is let them fight it out until there is a military winner. That’s what happened in ours.

Had the UN interfered in our civil war, we’d still be fighting it.
 
We should keep politics apart from religion. What’s next, is someone going to say that Jesus is a Republican?:ehh:
 
some quick last thoughts:
God forbid we leave His teachings out of politics!! Where on earth did the idea come from that says His teachings don’t matter in the political world? Abortion doesn’t matter? Adoring the environment? Controlling other people via legislation? Letting the elderly/sick/handicapped die because socialized medicine doesn’t cover them and the govt feels they don’t matter?? I personally know of people who have died waiting for medical treatment in Canada. My husband talks daily to clients there also, who echo the same. How on earth does that help us medically? Please think this through. God’s teachings are HUGE in politics!!
 
I just wanted to let you know that my experience within the Canadian health care system has been nothing but positive. Unfortunately some people do have longer wait times but those are primarily for non emergency procedures such as hip replacements. Some might argue that it is a lot better that a few people have to wait a little longer for nonessential procedures than having a whole bunch of people who have no health care coverage at all and die because they can’t even get basic care. I’m really passionate about my health care system and I wouldn’t mind debating about it but this thread probably isn’t the place for it. I think the point others in the thread were trying to make was that being liberal or conservative doesn’t make you a better or worse person, unless you actively promote killing babies or other reprehensible acts.
 
some quick last thoughts:
God forbid we leave His teachings out of politics!! Where on earth did the idea come from that says His teachings don’t matter in the political world?
But as soon as someone wants to convince me that it’s MORE Catholic to vote for the Republicans I’m starting to feel uncomfortable.
 
I agree. Jesus kept Himself out of politics. Honestly, one of my best friends is very devoutly Catholic, consecrated to Mary, prolife 100% (she does work both against abortion and against the death penalty) and encourages me to go to daily Mass. She got me to consecrate myself to Mary (before I met her, I didn’t know the consecration existed). And she’s also a liberal democrat (just not for gay marriage or abortion).

It makes me really uncomfortable when people try to say that certain political beliefs (outside of fighting abuses on human life, like abortion, etc.) make you a better or worse Catholic. If there’s room for fascists in the Church (and St. Josemaria Escriva did support Spain’s fascist government), there’s room for any political belief as long as the person does not support the killing of innocents, the attack on the family, or a direct ban on religion or religious freedom (or the basic human freedoms that allow for the dignity of the person).

Not every political system is perfect. But, barring the circumstances I just mentioned, a person is not wrong for supporting a certain belief or party. For example, yes there are problems with universal health care. There are also problems with the US system. And there are also positives about either. It’s up to the individual, through prayer and reasoning, to pick which they support.

OK, I’m done on this thread.
 
Minimom,

I just read through all the posts here, and I must say it is refreshing to hear your thoughts!! Wow, you wrote practically everything I think!!!

With regard to your original post, I don’t have any advice other than to say keep up the good fight! I am in the same boat as you. EXACTLY!! I agree with ALL of what you have said and you’re right, it is very discouraging, I know. I also have read Liberalism Is a Sin. What an eye opening book! Conservatism and the Common Good by Rick Santorum is another good one (though I haven’t had time to read it yet). Thanks for the books you mentioned. I will look into them. Hang in there and know that you are not alone in your thoughts. My prayers go out for your strength.
 
Socialism - I personally see nothing wrong with left wingism. I don’t see how it has anything to do with church morals.

…Standing up for the small person, protecting the environment… being against capitalism… there is nothing morally wrong with this
Yes, there is something morally wrong with this. This is where the RCC puts its head in the sand. The Church should stick to faith and moral issues and stay out of economic ones. Capitalism distributes wealth more effectively and people as a whole have a better standard of living and can better support their families under this type of system. Socialism is a road to serfdom that keeps people down.
 
Socialism - I personally see nothing wrong with left wingism. I don’t see how it has anything to do with church morals.
Tractarianism (anglican) and Ultramontanism (Catholic) were each quite left-wing in Victorian England. When Cardinal Manning (I think) died during the period, the streets were lined with dockyard workers, whose champion had been the deceased prelate. Liberation theology is a step to far, but for me, Catholic Socialism* is the way forward!

*ie no marxism or moral relativity 🙂
 
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