Relic Help

  • Thread starter Thread starter scatterd
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

scatterd

Guest
First off, I’d like to say hello, as this is my first post. Also, I would like to apologize for any typos that may occur due to my phone’s keyboard and auto-correct. And for any clarification, I am not trying to sell it, I only wish to know more about this family heirloom.

I came into posession of what I believe is a first class relic when I was confirmed some 10 years ago. My aunt (who was also my sponsor) gave it to me and wasn’t quite sure when it came into my family’s possession or which saints the three pieces belong to.

Now on to the relic. It’s a small (perhaps 1.5 inches by 1 inch) metal oval with a glass front. The metal is a bit banged up and the back plate is missing. The relics are three small pieces (more detail below) mounted on red paper? There are also three descriptions, I suppose, one under each piece. On the back is a red wax stamp over 3 white threads. I can’t really see what is stamped in the wax but it looks strikingly similar to the coat of arms on the Vatican flag.

The first relic is what appears to be a black piece of fabric and the description reads “Velo BVM”.

The second looks like it could be a home fragment and the description says “S Rasch Bal”. I could be wrong about the last word; its very hard to read.

The third is really hard to tell what it is. It’s brownish and circular, not something I can easily recognize. Below it are the words “S Lucia VM” (or VAI, can’t tell).

Any help you can provide would be greatly appreciated. I would like to know who the relics come from (beyond Saint Lucia :-P) and any other information about relics in general.

I feel kind of silly, having to ask on a forum but I got really conflicting advise online and most of the “information” was about a band. I just really want to know more about it as its been in my family for so long and no one knows anything about it.

Thanks!
 
Hi, welcome to CAF. 🙂

I can only suggest that it isn’t a 'first class relic":
totallycatholic.com/category.php?id=47

Being threads or fabric, not part of a saint’s bones etc, at least one of the relics is a second class relic.
If one is bone, rather than “home” as you have texted, that would be a first class relic.

The following came up when I googled “S Lucia VM” (or VAI"
santaluciabg.it/
I’m still waiting for the translation to complete from Italian.
 
Hello and welcome 🙂

Velo BVM = from the veil of the Blessed Virgin.
I saw pictures of relics on the internet and saw one with those words. So I’m guessing you have the same.

Not sure about the S. Rasch Bal, but I’m pretty sure you know that the S Lucia VM comes from St. Lucy, virgin and martyr.

Hope this helps! 😃
 
  • Red wax stamp is a seal of authenticity from the Vatican.
  • “Velo BVM” means “From the veil of the Blessed Virgin Mary”.
  • “S Rasch Bal” may be Saint Racho, Bishop, but this is a guess on a possible misreading of what’s written.
  • “S Lucia VM” means “Saint Lucy, Virgin, Martyr”.
 
scatterd, what you receive as gift is a genuine relic though may not be first class. What you see, resembling the coat of arms on the Vatican flag,on the wax can be the stamp of a declaration of authenticity.
“Velo BVM” could have signified a portion of the veil of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
“S Lucia VM” could have signified Santa Lucia Via Mare as the saint was and probably still is invoked by Italian Catholics who ride boats no matter the size of the boat. I remember hearing the gondolero sung a popular song to St. Lucy when I tried a gondola ride in Venice a few years ago.
Anyway, IMO, you have something precious with you.
 
I don´t understand why some posters say that the relics scatterd received can´t be first class relics when I know from my own personal experience that I was given a first class relic of St Teresa of Avila (my patron saint) from the Postulator in Rome.

From what I understand the postulators of certain religious orders will now only give out relics to priests or those who receive written permission from the Bishop due to the fact that there are those who sell holy relics when it is forbidden by the Church to do so. I say certain orders but not all. I wrote to the postulator in Rome for St. Teresa of Avila’s order and within 2 weeks had a first class relic of St. Teresa.

I also had requested a relic of St. Francis of Assisi but had my request rejected by the Franciscan Order’s postulator stating that they only send out relics to Churches or institutions that have a written letter from their Bishop stating the reasons why they want the relics… So, it all depends on the order.

Scatterd…I think it would help if you posted pictures of your relics. Did you receive any documentation with the relics? What I mean is paperwork that came with the relics explaining in Latin which saint the relic is from?

God bless
 
TempleofTheSoul said:
I don´t understand why some posters say that the relics scatterd received can´t be first class relics when I know from my own personal experience that I was given a first class relic of St Teresa of Avila (my patron saint) from the Postulator in Rome.
Click to expand...
Whether or not a relic is a first-class relic depends on exactly what the material is:

First Class Relic: An actual body part of the saint (piece of bone, piece of skin, lock of hair, etc.).

Second Class Relic: An object (or part of an object) that the saint once used (a veil, a religious habit, a rosary, a Bible, etc.).

Third Class Relic: An object that has been touched to a first or second class relic. Such objects are usually medals of the saint, or small pieces of cloth (and the latter are usually then encased in a rosary, crucifix or such). I am told that in the case of a saint whose body is in an unknown location, and when there are no surviving artifacts associated with him, a third-class relic may be gotten by touching an object to a shrine especially devoted to the saint in question.

In light of all this, there are no first-class relics of Mary. And unless the OP’s other relics are composed of human tissue then they are not first-class relics either (they might be based on Scattrd’s description - its hard to tell). Third-class relics are usually not encased in a reliquary, and they are never given a wax seal to protect their authenticity (because they are easily procured, very plentiful, and do not have a historical connection to the saint, as would be the case with a second-class artifact).
 
Here is a handy PDF link with relic information. From this one can glean the following…
scatterd said:
The first relic is what appears to be a black piece of fabric and the description reads “Velo BVM”.
Click to expand...
As DianaCC stated, this indicates the veil of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The second looks like it could be a home fragment and the description says “S Rasch Bal”. I could be wrong about the last word; its very hard to read.
Click to expand...
This one is mysterious. I do not know who this saint is, nor what “Bal” indicates. Normally the letters in this position indicate who the saint was (for example, “M” for martyr) but it could be an abbreviation of the last name for this saint. Of course, you stated that it is hard to read and may possibly be something other than “Bal.”
The third is really hard to tell what it is. It’s brownish and circular, not something I can easily recognize. Below it are the words “S Lucia VM” (or VAI, can’t tell).
Click to expand...
This is (as DianaCC also stated) “St. Lucia, Virgin, Martyr”.
I feel kind of silly, having to ask on a forum but I got really conflicting advise online and most of the “information” was about a band.
Click to expand...
Don’t feel silly. Such a question is perfectly legitimate and understandable.
I just really want to know more about it as its been in my family for so long and no one knows anything about it.
Click to expand...
Every time an authentic relic is encased in a reliquary, it is accompanied with an official letter of documentation (in Latin). This document states who the saint is, and what the relic is composed of. Unfortunately, over time such documents can easily be separated from the reliquary (and then lost) or become accidentally destroyed. If you are able to find the document for these relics then that would clarify everything. That, of course, presumes that your family had it to begin with (and that it was not already lost prior to your family’s acquisition of the reliquary). But if the document accompanied the reliquary was passed on to your family, maybe someone in your family knows where it is. And if it is simply misplaced, I suggest a prayer to St. Anthony and then start looking around for a piece of paper with Latin writing (many of these kinds of documents are rectangular and not very big).
 
Velo BVM: Veil of the Blessed Virgin Mary
S Rasch Bal: You may have read the first name incorrectly. This bone could be St. Paschal Baylon. (Hence the intial Bal). I would need to see the name to be certain.
S Lucia VM: St. Lucy, Virgin and Martyr
 
Thank you everyone for your help!

Here’s a picture of the front:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I don’t have any sort of documents, I was only given this.

EricFilmer - Thanks for the PDF! I read through it and it mentions that it is possible to regain those papers…

Does anyone know how to go about in getting new papers from Rome?
 
EricFilmer said:
Whether or not a relic is a first-class relic depends on exactly what the material is:

First Class Relic: An actual body part of the saint (piece of bone, piece of skin, lock of hair, etc.).

Second Class Relic: An object (or part of an object) that the saint once used (a veil, a religious habit, a rosary, a Bible, etc.).

Third Class Relic: An object that has been touched to a first or second class relic. Such objects are usually medals of the saint, or small pieces of cloth (and the latter are usually then encased in a rosary, crucifix or such). I am told that in the case of a saint whose body is in an unknown location, and when there are no surviving artifacts associated with him, a third-class relic may be gotten by touching an object to a shrine especially devoted to the saint in question.

In light of all this, there are no first-class relics of Mary. And unless the OP’s other relics are composed of human tissue then they are not first-class relics either (they might be based on Scattrd’s description - its hard to tell). Third-class relics are usually not encased in a reliquary, and they are never given a wax seal to protect their authenticity (because they are easily procured, very plentiful, and do not have a historical connection to the saint, as would be the case with a second-class artifact).
Click to expand...
I can hardly see how that quote from my previous post shows that I don´t know the different classes of relics. My statement was for the benefit of ofthers who think that it is impossible for the laity to receive a first class relic when my experience says otherwise.

God bless
 
scatterd said:
Thank you everyone for your help!

I don’t have any sort of documents, I was only given this.

EricFilmer - Thanks for the PDF! I read through it and it mentions that it is possible to regain those papers…

Does anyone know how to go about in getting new papers from Rome?
Click to expand...
There are postulators for individual orders. For St. Paschal Baylon I would contact the Franciscan Postulator since was a member of the Franciscans of the Alcantarine Reform (or Reformed Conventuals). I searched for the Reformed Conventuals and kept getting hits for this postulator: ofm.org/01eng/off/post/07post.html

If you look at the top of the page it has the email and phone number that you can call (which seems like a good place to start). Also, in the article below for the Postulation of the Saints you will see that it mentions St. Paschal Baylon…

As for the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Lucy I would ask this same postulator who it is you have to contact in Rome to get new paperwork.

I wish you all the best in this wonderful journey of yours!

God bless
 
TempleofTheSoul said:
I can hardly see how that quote from my previous post shows that I don´t know the different classes of relics. My statement was for the benefit of ofthers who think that it is impossible for the laity to receive a first class relic when my experience says otherwise.

God bless
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification. I didn’t catch that nuance when first reading your post. But in my defense I’ll point out that you did specifically refer to “the relics that scatterd received” so I presumed that you were talking about “the relics that scatterd received.” I thought you were saying that it was possible for those specific relics to be first-class, whereas that would not be the case for Mary (and if the other relics were not composed of human tissue then they would not be first-class relics either). In light of what I thought you were saying I figured the overall thread discussion could use a clarification concerning what constitutes each class of relic.

And you are correct in saying that it is possible for laity to receive a first-class relic (as I personally know of cases where this has taken place).
 
How can i obtain relics of st. lucy? our family has a devotion to her. we celebrate her feast…
 
im pretty sure it isnt Rasch Bal. its Pasch Bayl. he is Saint Pascal Baylon, an incorrupt saint… im sure of it guys after i saw the picture
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top