Relics of the BVM?

[PatienceAndLove]

We were being briefed on the Prioress’s Tale from The Canterbury Tales and the Professor mentioned that in the Tale, a parish priest processed with the relics of the Blessed Virgin Mary?!
So I asked him, and he tells me that there are relics of “Milk of the Virgin” that is solid during the year, but liquefies during the Feast of the Nativity?
Is he crazy, or am I just uninformed?

And I guess second and third class relics that might be counted… but still not sure.

 

[thistle]

We were being briefed on the Prioress’s Tale from The Canterbury Tales and the Professor mentioned that in the Tale, a parish priest processed with the relics of the Blessed Virgin Mary?!
So I asked him, and he tells me that there are relics of “Milk of the Virgin” that is solid during the year, but liquefies during the Feast of the Nativity?
Is he crazy, or am I just uninformed?

And I guess second and third class relics that might be counted… but still not sure.

The Canterbury Tales (by Chaucer) are totally fiction.
There are no relics of Mary. She was assumed into Heaven.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I realize that the Canterbury tales are fiction, but there is truth in them- especially since they were Satire.

But someone in the class pointed out that these relics may have been second or third class relics.
What is the “Milk of the Virgin” my prof is talking about, though? I googled it and got nothing, but he seems to think that it’s truth…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

There were lots of ‘fake’ relics going about at the time (and before, and since). The supposed “milk of the Virgin” was one of them (and probably Geoffrey would have been well aware of that).

 

[PatienceAndLove]

There were lots of ‘fake’ relics going about at the time (and before, and since). The supposed “milk of the Virgin” was one of them (and probably Geoffrey would have been well aware of that).

So my prof is insane? I already thought that, but this just solidifies it.

I must say, I severely dislike when profs make such remarks regarding Catholicism. It just further confuses already vulnerable college students.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Sounds like he has garbled it with the blood of St Januarius.

 

[Hellisreal]

I realize the assumption was mentioned already and this relic theory is I am relieved a theory and not truth. If it were, say we had hair or something, I would worry about how some Catholics would go over the line of veneration and go full tilt worship. God is wise. With the assumption, no chance of that.
And, no tomb. Or that would be the number one tourist attraction for many.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I realize the assumption was mentioned already and this relic theory is I am relieved a theory and not truth. If it were, say we had hair or something, I would worry about how some Catholics would go over the line of veneration and go full tilt worship. God is wise. With the assumption, no chance of that.
And, no tomb. Or that would be the number one tourist attraction for many.

Well, there is one, but it’s empty.

 

[mercygate]

I realize that the Canterbury tales are fiction, but there is truth in them- especially since they were Satire.

But someone in the class pointed out that these relics may have been second or third class relics.
What is the “Milk of the Virgin” my prof is talking about, though? I googled it and got nothing, but he seems to think that it’s truth…

I believe a Church in France claims to have her mantel. But there are no first class relics. Yes: I have heard of Our Lady’s milk.

Chaucer might have been winking at us: since there are no first class relics of Our Lady, his sense of humor might have had the priest engaging in a little dishonest trade?

 

[mercygate]

We were being briefed on the Prioress’s Tale from The Canterbury Tales and the Professor mentioned that in the Tale, a parish priest processed with the relics of the Blessed Virgin Mary?!
So I asked him, and he tells me that there are relics of “Milk of the Virgin” that is solid during the year, but liquefies during the Feast of the Nativity?
Is he crazy, or am I just uninformed?

And I guess second and third class relics that might be counted… but still not sure.

Well, I am quite partial to Liebfraumilch, myself! (German for “Virgin’s milk”). Why not google around and see what you come up with on such a relic. If San Gennaro’s blood liquifies on his feast, why not Our Lady’s milk?

 

[AJV]

So my prof is insane? I already thought that, but this just solidifies it.

I must say, I severely dislike when profs make such remarks regarding Catholicism. It just further confuses already vulnerable college students.

Your prof may have not been entirely wrong since such relics were part and parcel of the mediavel life- and yes, several centers of pilgrimage (I know Walsingham in England in mediaevel times) claimed to have it and that it liquified on various Marian festivals.I’m sure you’ve heard of Calvin’s acid remark that there were so many of them that one would think the Virgin must have been a cow (or somethign to that effect) St. Bernardine of Siena is said to have said something similar - that there was more milk than a 100 cows- when commenting unfavorably on such relics.

There were a lot of these fake relics around- teeth and hair and finger and toenails purportedly of Christ or the Virgin- but since around the Counter Reformation they were gradually retired and “de-venerated” (if that’s a word) For example, the milk in crystal pots put into the altar as a relic was removed and replaced with authenticated ones of martyrs in several cases.

 

[Sir_Knight]

The Canterbury Tales (by Chaucer) are totally fiction.
There are no relics of Mary. She was assumed into Heaven.

There MIGHT be relics – cut hair, nails, clothing, etc. How one would verify it, however, is another issue.

 

[puzzleannie]

commerce in fake relics was a huge business in medieval times, and Chaucer was satirizing that social phenomenon (and a lot of other abuses and ignorance by so-called Christians) in his Canturbury tales. The Church of course condemned such practices and in fact one of the huge sins attacked by the Church in the middle ages was simony, selling of holy things, and fakery and fraud concerning holy things. The Church also routinely and thoroughly condemned the sale of indulgences and other abuses used by the Reformers in their attacks against her. another example of holding up the sin, disregard, and disobedience to Church teaching on the part of her so-called members, in order to attack the Church herself.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Supposedly Mary appeared to Saint Thomas after her Assumption and gave him her sash as proof of her Assumption. I think the sash is preserved in a church a bit north of Rome, but I forget its name. I don’t know whether there is any official statement on its authenticity.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I know Chaucer was satiring the Church, but the prof was lecturing on the existance of tese relics as if they still really existed and had not been “de-venerated” (no idea if it’s a real word, but I like it!)

 

[thistle]

Supposedly Mary appeared to Saint Thomas after her Assumption and gave him her sash as proof of her Assumption. I think the sash is preserved in a church a bit north of Rome, but I forget its name. I don’t know whether there is any official statement on its authenticity.

If such a thing existed and was deemed genuine by the Church I think we all would have heard about it by now.
These are are not real things.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Wow… I apologize for the horrendous spelling in my last post. I was typing one handed.
Mea Culpa!

 

[Petergee]

I know Chaucer was satiring the Church,

Chaucer satirised many people and things, but he did not satirise the Church. He seems to have been a sincere Catholic.

the prof was lecturing on the existance of tese relics as if they still really existed and had not been “de-venerated” (no idea if it’s a real word, but I like it!)

I think you should give the Prof the benefit of the doubt, I don’t think he was attacking Catholics, more likely he was trying to be respectful to Catholic beliefs by speaking of a doubtful relic as if it was fact.

The Church rarely makes an official ruling about the genuineness or non-genuineness of claimed relics. Even the Shroud of Turin is officially only called “remarkable” by the Church, not endorsed as definitely genuine. I’ve never heard of the Church “de-venerating” a claimed relic, i.e. telling people NOT to venerate it. Even if a relic is actually false, it can increase people’s faith, devotion and spirituality and help them to pray better.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

If such a thing existed and was deemed genuine by the Church I think we all would have heard about it by now.
These are are not real things.

Try Google for “Mary, Girdle, Thomas” and you’ll find much more than you will feel a need to follow up on.

 

[HOPEFUL_IN_UK]

I’ve seen her mantle… it’s in the cathedral at Chartres, I think.

Whatever the current opinion about authenticity, Chaucer didn’t specify that these were first-class relics, and if people felt they were the real thing, then people would have gone to visit them.