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Dakota_Maverick
Guest
What do you mean by occassionalism?
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jack_hawkins
Guest
here’s a few links which explain better than I can in a few words:
Causation in Islamic Thought
Occasionalism
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Dakota_Maverick
Guest
I don’t see where this example is an indicator that religion and science don’t mix.
Are you trying to determine God’s limits? Seems to me you want a measure of what religion does and doesn’t do and to point a finger at people of faith and say it affects nothing.
A person without faith wouldn’t have acknowledged Babel for what it was - God correcting people of thier pride. They would have said it was only engineering failure.
There can be both faith and science principals coexisting in a situation like that. Just because people who lack faith can’t discern the second aspect doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
It’s not a sometimesism - God is always God and his ways are above us. Trying to limit God and faith are going to be a lifelong frustration for you (and the people of faith) if you’re trying to feel out his limits amongst his people.
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guanophore
Guest
I don’t disagree with any of that, I am just pointing out that hubris does play a role in all that we do, and create. Remember the story of the tower of Babel Unless the Lord builds the house, then in vain to the builders labor. Even if they are excellent engineers.What’s this got to do with the price of tea in China?
I was simply trying to make the point that good engineering has very little to do with the faith of the engineer, but rather has much more to do with an understanding of the limitations of created matter and the ability to account for these in design and engineering.
The properties of matter, and the mathematical and physics formulae that describe them, are not a function of anyone’s faith, but rather are inherent in the way God chose to create the universe. As such, they can be discovered and applied by all people, not just Christians, as stated in my first post.
Furthermore, refusing to take them into account and simply hoping for the best is not good policy on the part of any engineering or design & construction team, Christian or not, and smacks of tempting God.
Zirconia
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Yeah, it did. He believed that material existence was evil and that therefore releasing Terri from material existence was for ‘the good.’ Feno, Michael, and the judge had a whole religious cult going.
Bit of a contradiction though in that, if material existence is evil, why didn’t Michael kill himself? Why did he give his common law wife an expensive car?
Point is that their real religion was about body-part peddling. Their ‘science’ was an invention to justify body-part peddling. Their science was about a poorly justified medical category called ‘persistent vegetative syndrome’ and did not stand up to the opinions of two Nobel prize folks (nominees or winners, I can’t remember) who said that Terri’s condition was ‘mimimal awareness’ – a treatable disease.
Illogical religion and illogical science seem to mix very well, if Michael Schiavo is any example.
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jack_hawkins
Guest
if you look at my other comments you will see I am not limiting God
of course God can achieve anything (compatible with his divine nature that is) - and when he does something that breaks the normal laws of creation, we call that a miracle
miracles are naturally the exception rather than the rule
are you saying that God will kill so many innocent people by virtue of a deliberate miraculous act just to spite one ship designer?
the example of the Tower of Babel is a poor one
your neologism of sometimesism is nothing to do with occasionalism - please see the links I have provided
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Dakota_Maverick
Guest
I think at the heart of what you’re saying is that faith can’t change engineering/science/natural law. Since Faith and natural law/science/engineering are all components of life created by God they naturally interrelate.
At least we agree that God can do anything!
but the statements you make are contradictory in themselves.
I think your wording causes you more debates
and I think you like it that way.
At least we agree that God can do anything!
but the statements you make are contradictory in themselves.
God doesn’t break any laws of creation.
I think your wording causes you more debates
and I think you like it that way.
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Dakota_Maverick
Guest
I’m not going to look at your links - and I like my word sometimesism better than your occassionalism. Yours word sounds more laid back than mine. 
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jack_hawkins
Guest
oh well sometimes ignorance IS blissI’m not going to look at your links - and I like my word sometimesism better than your occassionalism. Yours word sounds more laid back than mine.
it seems odd to try and replace a word without knowing what it means, that’s all
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jack_hawkins
Guest
your post makes no sense whatsoeverI think at the heart of what you’re saying is that faith can’t change engineering/science/natural law. Since Faith and natural law/science/engineering are all components of life created by God they naturally interrelate.
At least we agree that God can do anything!
but the statements you make are contradictory in themselves.
God doesn’t break any laws of creation.
I think your wording causes you more debates
and I think you like it that way.
is that intentional?
you have not demonstrated why you think my statements are contradictory, and I suspect you have no idea of what I’m on about:thumbsup:
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Dakota_Maverick
Guest
Knowing God and his ways can be even more Bliss than ignorance. Guess you’ll have to trust the rest of us on that. 
when you practice sometimism and sometime open your mind and heart a bit more to God I think you’ll be amazed by both faith
and science and how each point to God and to the other.
God created all law and doesn’t break law. that’s where your statements are contradictory. Likewise your attitude is contradictory. You can figure that one out for yourself.
when you practice sometimism and sometime open your mind and heart a bit more to God I think you’ll be amazed by both faith
and science and how each point to God and to the other.
God created all law and doesn’t break law. that’s where your statements are contradictory. Likewise your attitude is contradictory. You can figure that one out for yourself.
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jack_hawkins
Guest
No you’re still not making sense I’m afraidKnowing God and his ways can be even more Bliss than ignorance. Guess you’ll have to trust the rest of us on that.
when you practice sometimism and sometime open your mind and heart a bit more to God I think you’ll be amazed by both faith
and science and how each point to God and to the other.
God created all law and doesn’t break law. that’s where your statements are contradictory. Likewise your attitude is contradictory. You can figure that one out for yourself.
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Dakota_Maverick
Guest
lol You remind me of someone…
“I can’t hear a thing you’re saying.” - Willie Wonka
“I can’t hear a thing you’re saying.” - Willie Wonka
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jack_hawkins
Guest
I can see what you’ve typed, it’s just it doesn’t make much sense - not surprising when you can’t even be bothered looking up the definition of a word
anyway this is a waste of time and you are a waste of time
get back to whatever you were doing and stop wasting my time
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freesoulhope
Guest
I think your mixing up moral laws with universal laws. God can break a universal law, because he created it for us, not him.
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