Religion and Suicide

[Leela]

It’s ironic that Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.

It’s not even just about history. Even today there are real costs to publicly claiming disbelief in God. For example, about half of Americans claim that they would not vote for an otherwise well-qualified candidate. People also do not want to disappoint their parents and friends. People even lose friends over this. Many think that atheists have no basis for morality. No one wants to be viewed as immoral. Though Americans won’t be put to death in this day and age, there are still strong disincentives for “coming out” as an atheist. But we are seeing big shifts in the numbers. The fastest growing religion is “no religion.”

Have you seen this recent study?

americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

 

[wcknight]

Yes, it seems Satan has done a great job in making folks believe both he and God do not exist. In this respect the father of all lies is winning, and he may be taking a lot of folks with him.

You atheists are betting on a losing proposition. Like Texas hold-em, you are going “all in” on the notion that the supernatural does not exist, that God is not who He claims to be, that there is no Heaven and subsequently no Hell.

That’s a mighty huge gamble to take when all the evidence points elsewhere. The price for you being wrong is infinitely higher for you, than for what we might lose if we are wrong. We might have ‘wasted’ a lifetime in prayer and worship of what you call a myth, but if you are wrong, you risk spending a trillion trillion lifetimes, suffering in eternal torment.

On the up side, if we are right, we gain an eternity with joy and happiness with our Creator, while at best IF you are right, you get to live your life of leisure and pleasure for this lifetime, and you get your nothingness/oblivion when it’s over.

It seems to me, we have infintely more to gain, and not much to lose, while you have infinitely more to lose, and not a whole lot to gain. IF that’s not a no brainer, I don’t know what is.

Given the choices, personally, I’d be praying like heck to examine every possibility that we just might have things right. There is a boatload of evidence out there, you just need a little bit of faith to get there.

.

 

[Leela]

Yes, it seems Satan has done a great job in making folks believe both he and God do not exist. In this respect the father of all lies is winning, and he may be taking a lot of folks with him.

You atheists are betting on a losing proposition. Like Texas hold-em, you are going “all in” on the notion that the supernatural does not exist, that God is not who He claims to be, that there is no Heaven and subsequently no Hell.

That’s a mighty huge gamble to take when all the evidence points elsewhere. The price for you being wrong is infinitely higher for you, than for what we might lose if we are wrong. We might have ‘wasted’ a lifetime in prayer and worship of what you call a myth, but if you are wrong, you risk spending a trillion trillion lifetimes, suffering in eternal torment.

On the up side, if we are right, we gain an eternity with joy and happiness with our Creator, while at best IF you are right, you get to live your life of leisure and pleasure for this lifetime, and you get your nothingness/oblivion when it’s over.

It seems to me, we have infintely more to gain, and not much to lose, while you have infinitely more to lose, and not a whole lot to gain. IF that’s not a no brainer, I don’t know what is.

Given the choices, personally, I’d be praying like heck to examine every possibility that we just might have things right. There is a boatload of evidence out there, you just need a little bit of faith to get there.

.

Every religion claims that every other religion is false, that only adherents to the one true faith will be saved. Don’t think that only atheists are betting against the odds. If life really is God’s big multiple choice test to see who picks the right religion, then based on the number of religions we should all expect to go to hell as a matter of probability. But I am as concerned about being damned for not being a Christian as you are for not being a Mormon or a Muslim–which is not at all. I try to make the best of my life without any concern for what may happen after death. I can’t see how anyone has any basis for their claims of what they think happens at that point.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Leela

Have you investigated any further into these statistics? Do Catholics have lower suicide rates than Lutherans who have lower rates than Jews who have lower rates than pagans?

On the map I referenced in a previous post far and away the part of the world that has the lowest suicide rate is South America, which is mostly Catholic. Another instance of pro-life ethics at work.

" …you must realize that lower suicide rates do not constitute evidence that any beliefs are true. All it could be said is that certain beliefs may be useful for lower suicide rates."

Right. In any given setting the minority may be closer to the truth than the majority. But when it comes to common sense, I’ll put my money on the majority. The majority are those who stay closer to life than to death.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Leela

By the way, the Divine Physician never uses the placebo effect. He’s the real medicine. Try Him.

 

[1holycatholic]

Every religion claims that every other religion is false, that only adherents to the one true faith will be saved.

This is not true.

You’re a fountain of unfounded assertions.

 

[1holycatholic]

It’s not even just about history. Even today there are real costs to publicly claiming disbelief in God. For example, about half of Americans claim that they would not vote for an otherwise well-qualified candidate. People also do not want to disappoint their parents and friends. People even lose friends over this. Many think that atheists have no basis for morality. No one wants to be viewed as immoral. Though Americans won’t be put to death in this day and age, there are still strong disincentives for “coming out” as an atheist. But we are seeing big shifts in the numbers. The fastest growing religion is “no religion.”

Have you seen this recent study?

americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

A well qualified candidate doesn’t hold irrational and unwarranted beliefs like atheism.

Meta-ethical moral relativism isn’t a basis for morality.

No religion != atheism.

 

[wcknight]

Leela, yes you are correct that I pay no attention as to whcih faith is right because I absolutely believe than I have chosen the correct one.

BUT you are wrong that we or other faiths for that matter claim that all others are toast. We don’t even claim that all atheists are toast. We just happen to think that you have a far better chance for salvation if you believe than if you don’t.

It’s a shame that you are not concerned with being damned because you, I and everyone else in the world, really should be. It’s like saying I don’t care about my retirement when I know at some point down the road, I expect to quit work and live off a reduced or no income.

I don’t live in mortal fear of damnation but I sure as heck am concerned about it. IF I thought that Islam or some other faith were the real deal, I’d want to make some changes in my life. And I have researched some other faiths, and found all others lacking. Eternity is an awfully long time to regret that I could have made a better choice. But hey, that’s just me, I like to play it safe and have all bases covered.

 

[tomarin]

It’s not even just about history.

The Victorian era was a deeply religious period in US history, yet I don’t recall reading about people being put to death for being atheists. Joseph Smith and his followers were persecuted, but they certainly weren’t atheists.

Even today there are real costs to publicly claiming disbelief in God. For example, about half of Americans claim that they would not vote for an otherwise well-qualified candidate.

I’d say that while principled atheism remains controversial, lifestyle atheism is perfectly common, perhaps even the norm. It is where I live (in the northeast).

 

[Charlemagne_II]

There was an atheist burned at the stake about seven hundred years ago, as I recollect. Can’t remember his name. That hardly compares with all the religious people executed by modern atheists like Stalin and Hitler.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

I’d say that while principled atheism remains controversial, lifestyle atheism is perfectly common, perhaps even the norm. It is where I live (in the northeast).

Ain’t it the truth?!

 

[Leela]

A well qualified candidate doesn’t hold irrational and unwarranted beliefs like atheism.

Meta-ethical moral relativism isn’t a basis for morality.

You make my point. There is strong prejudice against atheists, so it is not suprising that nonbelievers are reluctant to “come out.”

 

[1holycatholic]

You make my point. There is strong prejudice against atheists, so it is not suprising that nonbelievers are reluctant to “come out.”

There is a publicly sanctioned method of discrimination called voting. Those who hold irrational beliefs tend not to get elected.

Atheism is an irrational belief.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

“My acceptance of the universe is not optimism, it is more like patriotism. It is a matter of primary loyalty. The world is not a lodging-house at Brighton, which we are to leave because it is miserable. It is the fortress of our family, with the flag flying on the turret, and the more miserable it is the less we should leave it. The point is not that this world is too sad to love or too glad not to love; the point is that when you do love a thing, its gladness is a reason for loving it, and its sadness a reason for loving it more.” G.K. Chesterton