Religion and the Discomfort of Biology?

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Greetings all, i don’t particularly post a lot these days but there seems to be a number of new interesting forumites around i feel that perhaps i shall take an opportune moment to ask a question.

Admittedly this is a bit of an opinion question, but i’m hoping that people can show a certain level of civility and restraint in airing out those opinions.

I’ve come to today ask about the religion and the discomfort of biology. What I mean by that is the following. I’m not here to bore you with the “Science vs. Religion” warfare paradigm, simply because i don’t buy into it, at least not in its extreme form as if there were two idealized factions warring across the face of human history.

But if we are to chop up all the sciences into their individual specific fields, there seems to be rather heavy discomfort with the theoretical and applied aspects of biology vis-a-vis religion, be you Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, or otherwise.

Stop and think with me for a second. In the long history of Western science, fields like Chemistry or Geology do not evince a very negative reaction.

Chemistry’s forefather alchemy tended to get a light slap on the wrist in terms of the idea of turning lead to gold. But the religious authorities backing such negative criticism seem to merely falling in lock-step with the secular authorities of that time, who were afraid that such successful transmutation would destabilize their economy. In other words, their worried about their money.

I know someone is about to shout Physics and the Galileo incident, however as much of a stain that incident was it doesn’t properly characterize the whole relationship between religion and physics. In fact, during dark times, many religious figures were the ones who are carrying the torch of Reason in trying to understand the mysteries before us.

But there’s something about Biology, and extended into medical science, that really raises the hackles of religious opinion throughout all eras. I’m not talking about plants or animals, but really biology that applies to us. In fact, my friends who do work in those allied fields would claim that, Galileo aside, Physics gets off easy. After all, you don’t really see people protesting the CERN Reactor in Switzerland.

To them, religious sentiment tends to be downright obstructionist toward biology.

Before a moderator comes in and shoots down fire brimstone upon my head for fear of raising the specter of yet another evolution debate, please have a little more faith me.

I’m a very applied person. So let’s start with something more down to earth, such as the Dissection of Corpses.

A non-issue in this day and age, but something that would have gotten me hanged in the Middle ages. More often than not, the reasoning behind it tends to be a religious one.

Let me clarify, i don’t mean to say this doctrine. But when somebody would pursue that bit of knowledge in the past and if they got caught, would summarily be vilified. Bad moral character, demonic possession, and offense toward the creation of God are some of the charges levied against such a person.

At this time i’d like to point out that the Alchemist and Astrologer, the forebearers of the Chemist and the Astronomer, get off pretty easy in comparison.

Fast forwarding to the future, some would say there’s a symmetry between those old attitudes and the treatment of say stem cell research. It would go something to the effect of “oh, here they going again. Obstructing progress once more. etc. etc.”

That’s a debate for another day and another time. The point i’m trying to illustrate though is that there’s kind of an emotional “umpf” if you will when it comes to biology.

No one gets angry at the findings of quantum physics or the creation of new organic compounds. However, people can get downright nasty when it comes to biological research in applied or theoretical forms, everything from animal testing (a problem for those who believe in reincarnation) to stem cells.

And i wouldn’t say its a coincidence that those atheists who clash the most with religious organizations tend to emanate from the biological sciences.

So, my question is simply: Why? What is it about biology that creates such a visceral discomfort?
 
It’s about belief in faith, that allows followers to raise opposing arguements that when biology fails to prove what it say it can and when it fails goes on the defensive and then saying the faith belief also is false doctrine.
 
This is a really good question… it makes one think. In my opinion i think its because religion has strong opinions about who we are and what life is. Ethics comes into play. Is the embryo being used in stem-cell research a pre-human organism or a complete human being with full human rights and an immortal soul? Unlike the other sciences, biology is an intersection point where religious and secular opinion can be vastly different…
 
So, my question is simply: Why? What is it about biology that creates such a visceral discomfort?
Fields like biology, and maybe more specifically biological anthropology conflict with the religious description of human nature.

Unless you’re a young earth creationist, you won’t really have a conflict with geology or physics.
 
So, my question is simply: Why? What is it about biology that creates such a visceral discomfort?
Isn’t this obvious? Biology is about us. It’s the story of humanity, and all living things. Dissonance unto correction and revision about celestial bodies is one thing, but that doesn’t compare with the rage (not just discomfort) that can be unleashed by undermining our conceits about ourselves.

It’s personal, when it comes to biology.

-TS
 
Very interesting–thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Catholics, at least, don’t usually have a problem with biology as it relates to things other than humans. Most aren’t particularly worried about research on bacteria, or fruit flies, or mice.

The visceral reaction with regard to humans (and human bodies), is born out of we believe. We believe that humans were made in the image of God, and that human life and human bodies deserve respect. Christ became a human, with a human body. There are no corresponding beliefs about the particles my fiance the physicist works with. 🙂

Early dissections were not at all respectful–the lectures were open to the public, like a circus. Burke and Hare even went so far as to murder their corpses before delivering them! Religious people had problems with this kind of disrespect, even if scientific knowledge was growing in leaps and bounds. Catholics today see stem cell research in much the same way.

In short, biology gets “obstructed” because some biology deals with humans, unlike the other disciplines. The Church has strong beliefs/teachings about humans.
 
Very interesting–thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Catholics, at least, don’t usually have a problem with biology as it relates to things other than humans. Most aren’t particularly worried about research on bacteria, or fruit flies, or mice.

The visceral reaction with regard to humans (and human bodies), is born out of we believe. We believe that humans were made in the image of God, and that human life and human bodies deserve respect. Christ became a human, with a human body. There are no corresponding beliefs about the particles my fiance the physicist works with. 🙂

Early dissections were not at all respectful–the lectures were open to the public, like a circus. Burke and Hare even went so far as to murder their corpses before delivering them! Religious people had problems with this kind of disrespect, even if scientific knowledge was growing in leaps and bounds. Catholics today see stem cell research in much the same way.

In short, biology gets “obstructed” because some biology deals with humans, unlike the other disciplines. The Church has strong beliefs/teachings about humans.
Spot on !👍👍
 
“But if we are to chop up all the sciences into their individual specific fields, there seems to be rather heavy discomfort with the theoretical and applied aspects of biology vis-a-vis religion, be you Catholic, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, or otherwise.”

This is quite an interesting post. Thank you for these thoughts and the civil manner in which you phrase them. First, I think you are right in what you point out here-there is a pronounced discomfort among many “believers” when it comes to various aspects of biology.

Part of this discomfort surely stems from the Modern world inheriting a tacit belief in some sort of “chain of being,” in which there is seen a gradation of significance in all that exists. *Most everyone, I think, irrespective of religious commitments, believes that there is a real distinction of significance between inanimate matter and living organisms. Put simply, that which is alive is more significant and has an inherent dignity, if not sanctity, which simply isn’t possessed by inanimate matter.

Kick a mound of dirt and no one cares. Kick a dog and everyone is up in arms. Why? I think the answer lies in our common belief I describe above. To kick the dog (the self-animating organism) is to attack or impugn its inherent dignity/sanctity. Again, I think this is a common belief of nearly everyone, regardless of religion.

So, as those of us who’ve been paying attention know, the biological sciences have undergone a pretty big leap forward in the last 150 years, and even more dramatically so within the last 20 years or so. Advancements within genetics and biochemistry have been taking place at break-neck speed recently. So, ethics (or bioethics) finds itself now in the awkward position of just trying to keep up with the biological sciences.

This feeling of scientific intrusion into that which is sacred (life) without being able to properly discuss the moral implications first (because everything’s happening so fast), is part of this knee-jerk discomfort you’re seeing.

I think that right now the moral discussions are not able to keep pace with the science, and this is, quite reasonably, cause for discomfort. Moreover, there has been a qualitative leap forward in the abilities of biology to intrude into/alter living organisms at the genetic level.

We might have laughed it off when the movie originally came out, but I think it’s hardly a laughing matter today that the world of Gattaca is at our doorstep. I’m uncomfortable.
 
I love how the OP groups all religions into one with his topic phrase. Typical tactic of atheists. I cannot speak for other religions but I can speak for Catholicism. The only time the church has problems with biology is when biology goes beyond science and tries to answer questions of morality and the meaning of life. In fact, evolution is not condemned and never was condemned by the church though atheistic evolution was and social Darwinism isnt compatible with church teachings. Many scientists see atheistic evolution as being a fact beyond reproach and hence put themselves into the role of theologian. In the past and to a lesser extent present, many prominent scientists saw social Darwinism as good and necessary societal practice and this brought them into conflict with the church. Similarly, the church is not against stem cell research but the abuse of embryonic stem cells to create life. Biologists take the atheistic view of the ends justifies the means but the church does not have the same view. While there are ways to obtain stem cells that are proven to be effective while embryonic research has not been successful but thought to have promise, biologists see a challenge to their belief that biology and science should have the power of life and death. In many cases, it is the biologists and scientists themselves that create problems. If science was not so dogmatic than there would be no conflict whatsoever. But since it tries to make fact that which is not proven by science and to decide questions of morality, there are conflicts on certain issues. The church also does not have a problem with dissection or cremation. In the past, the conflict came because certain groups were using it to deny the resurrection of the dead and were purposely disrespecting the body to make a point of unbelief. As soon as these issues ended culturally, the restrictions were eased. All too frequently, scientists can become like biblical literalists in their belief in science. No other meaning can be drawn from the data other than what they say it means. It is amazing that in the science field, that biologists often times make a belief in God incompatible while other scientific disciplines are more open to it. Many famous physicists such as Einstein and Hawking allow for a belief in God to be drawn from their field while many in biology such as Dawkins do not. In fact, even Darwin did not lose his faith over biology. He didnt lose his faith until he his daughters, I think, died. This is the same with Christopher Hitchens. He is not even a scientists but if you look at his youth, his mother committed suicide. His brother is a creationist and denies evolution. Do you see the extremes they have gone? In many cases, biology is not incompatible but the individuals who tie their personal beliefs to the science they work with.

The bias though against those who do believe in God in biology is real. Just look at that Catholic biology professor in Pennsylvania. I believe Penn State had to disassociate itself from him because he believed in theistic evolution (as if any faculty that believe in God is embarrassing). It goes as far as to say that if you dont accept atheistic evolution, you are anti-science. As much as many religious people have made mistakes, I find many scientists to be very condescending towards religion and unwilling to allow for any views that contradict their doctrine, which frequently gets modified or proven wrong. Science is not objective and open to ideas. If it was then creationists and global warming deniers would be accepted as offering an intelligent and plausible view instead of the ridicule and closed doors they find. I had a geology professor that told me that if a geology graduate student wanted to receive a passing grade, he needed to parrot the views of the professor that was grading his assignment. He said this was well-known in the science community and applies to peer reviews as well. Now he wasnt a Catholic or a Christian and it shows a scary attitude of compliance instead of innovation. This is not compatible with being an objective viewer of the data and reason. It shows a desire to elevate science to the level of ultimate truth and religion.
 
Very good topic and good responses. Let’s touch upon another possible development in biology, which does not “degrade” human life in the least, on the other hand, it enhances the quality of it, and yet it probably will raise some serious controversy. I am speaking of genetic engineering, which has the potential of preventing some genetically inherited diseases and also enhance the abilities of humans. “Tinkering” with the genes seems quite uncontroversial, but is it? Preventing some diseases is quite welcome, but creating humans with exceptional physical and mental capabilities will raise some eyebrows, for sure. Just food for thought.
 
Well said.

In schools and colleges the theory presented and especially when it comes to evolution is only one (the atheistic theory) and many students are surprised to find out that it is one in several theories and wonder why not all theories are discussed. Also, sad as it may be, many students find that agreeing with the professor even though they really don’t agree with him/her will get them a passing grade and so they fake it and I have found this to be true. If a student constantly argues and goes against what the professor believes the student will get a lesser grade. Some professors are aware of this and when grading papers and such cover up the name of the student so they can objectively give a deserving grade.

Very interesting topic…
 
Very good topic and good responses. Let’s touch upon another possible development in biology, which does not “degrade” human life in the least, on the other hand, it enhances the quality of it, and yet it probably will raise some serious controversy. I am speaking of genetic engineering, which has the potential of preventing some genetically inherited diseases and also enhance the abilities of humans. “Tinkering” with the genes seems quite uncontroversial, but is it? Preventing some diseases is quite welcome, but creating humans with exceptional physical and mental capabilities will raise some eyebrows, for sure. Just food for thought.
When the science[ists] catch up to the moral ethical questions / implications and address them in light…where they are governed. The problem is: Science, in this field especially, wants no constraints…no objections…no restraints …moral or ethical.

We have seen this, in lessor Scientific fields, just lately…i.e, IPCC. Global Warming ]

When science only seeks their results seemingly, at any costs ] and deny dignity and reverence for all life…They devalue the value of God created life. Eugenics is not a favorite of mine

With that attitude, they will forever be at odds with Churches.

As always, just my thoughts
 
When the science[ists] catch up to the moral ethical questions / implications and address them in light…where they are governed. The problem is: Science, in this field especially, wants no constraints…no objections…no restraints …moral or ethical.

We have seen this, in lessor Scientific fields, just lately…i.e, IPCC. Global Warming ]

When science only seeks their results seemingly, at any costs ] and deny dignity and reverence for all life…They devalue the value of God created life. Eugenics is not a favorite of mine

With that attitude, they will forever be at odds with Churches.

As always, just my thoughts
Science - in and by itself - is value-neutral. The application of the results can have moral implications. Nuclear energy can produce reactors and bombs. As the saying goes, there is no hammer which can only pound a nail but not someone’s head.

In the case of eugenics, what is wrong with creating humans, who are stronger, smarter, resistant to diseases, and have a wonderful perception of art and music? How does that “devalue” human life - in principle? It is just another enhancement. We see nothing wrong with machines which are used to make life easier in some respect or another. A hammer is just an enhanced fist. An artificial heart would have no possibility of a heart attack. Eyeglasses fix the deterioration of the sight. Do they “devalue” human life?

Here comes another possibility. Biology might become so advanced that it can create artifical human beings - androids. Why would such an act “devalue” human life?

I recall the time when medical science became advanced enough that child birth became possible without the accompanying pain. There was an uproar among the churches, who argued that human birth is ordained to be painful, and we should not “tinker” with God’s decision… Why not?

I agree that some churches will be against the so-called “immoral” usage of science, and depending on their definition of “morality”, they may be right, or may be wrong.
 
Hiyas:)
Science - in and by itself - is value-neutral. The application of the results can have moral implications. Nuclear energy can produce reactors and bombs. As the saying goes, there is no hammer which can only pound a nail but not someone’s head.
This is true. It is the moral ethical implications of developing or usage of end results…that science has not, nor seemingly, doesn’t wish to address
In the case of eugenics, what is wrong with creating humans, who are stronger, smarter, resistant to diseases, and have a wonderful perception of art and music? How does that “devalue” human life -
Who defines? That is where it devalues human life IMHO.
It is just another enhancement. We see nothing wrong with machines which are used to make life easier in some respect or another. A hammer is just an enhanced fist. An artificial heart would have no possibility of a heart attack. Eyeglasses fix the deterioration of the sight. Do they “devalue” human life?
The difference is… these are mechanical apparatuses…not human life.
I recall the time when medical science became advanced enough that child birth became possible without the accompanying pain. There was an uproar among the churches, who argued that human birth is ordained to be painful, and we should not “tinker” with God’s decision… Why not?
Whoa ponys…how old are you, please?
 
To keep the my post relevant to the OP, I’ll give my 2cents on dissection of humans. Personally I’m not comfortable with it myself =). But my own worries here is not the point I want to make. The issue here as in all things for Catholics is intention and proper respect of God’s creation. Sure these are large concepts but they are very tangible in every thing we do, one just needs to have the correct mindset to recognize what role the Catholic proclaims.

In the dissection of human beings, several things needs to be considered, why is it done, who is doing it, how is it going to be done, in what setting and what parts are going to be examined, where is the context of the dissection, and what will become of the body afterward. As science progress, there is more room to answer these questions due to a better understanding of where to draw the line and due to better technology to prevent disrespect or violation of the human body.

A few basic Catholic themes must be kept in mine understanding what answers to the above questions can be explored.
  1. The human body, when dead must be properly respected. This typically involves burial in a marked location to honor and respect both the person and the created body that will be resurrected by the Lord at the end of time.
  2. No burial or other action can be taken on the body if it is intended to fulfill other religious or anti-religious ceremonies contrary to the Catholic faith. Note that in general Catholic instructions are not meant to force non-Catholics to comply unless it effects Catholics.
If we look back at the Middle Ages, there were doctors who did dissections. If there are doctors that did this and were not admonished or condemned by the Church, then there must have been permissible methods even at this time. Note that in that time, bodies would decay quickly and disease can spread. Because the technology was not available like today in terms of delaying open air decay, it’s very reasonable that there is a lot of concern over leaving a body unburied.

If we look at this day and age and inquire about whether Catholics may in clear conscious donate their bodies to science or for transplants. The choice is a personal one however a few practical conditions need to be met to comply with the overarching themes above. The body must be used for good purposes only. Also the remains of the body when possible must be given back to the family for cremation or burial to show proper respect for the human person that is now physically dead and the Lord who created us.

That’s my 2cents and hopefully it is direct enough to be useful as well as offer the glimpses of the larger picture for Catholics in my understanding.
 
I think corpses are different for each person, I went to a display at a art museum where this famous artist used to plasticized cadavers. Of course it was gorey, but how does one really know what and where this or that happens without doing these things? I also saw one of a woman with a child in womb, was quite stark. There are pictures on then net, just be forewarned that they are not safe for family or work.
 
This is true. It is the moral ethical implications of developing or usage of end results…that science has not, nor seemingly, doesn’t wish to address
Correct. It is not the role of science to make the ethical judgment calls. Of course the individual scientists can and should make their concerns heard, as it happened in the case of the atomic bomb.
Who defines? That is where it devalues human life IMHO.
Sorry, who defines what?
The difference is… these are mechanical apparatuses…not human life.
The material is not relevant. The vision can be restored by laser surgery. A new heart can be developed of natual tissue - in theory for today. A new kidney, likewise. Even with our current, pretty crude technology we can enhance the quality of human life. Just because a broken bone can be replaced by a metal counterpart, the original human will not be declared “less human”.
Whoa ponys…how old are you, please?
Too old. 🙂 The largest power of 2 that I can reasonably expect to live. The next one has been achieved, but only by a very few people.
 
Stem cell research: the Catholic Church has no problem with it, as long as it stays within morally acceptable boundaries. Isolate adult stem cells from bone marrow, skin, fat tissue, without harming the donor person - no problem. Or from the amniotic fluid of pregnant women, from the umbilical cord of newborns - again, no problem. But if somebody wants to kill a human person, at whatever stage between conception and natural death (kill a grown-up , a child, or a zygote/embryo/fetus), for the sake of his/her stem cells, the Catholic Church calls that immoral, because it involves the crime of murder.

Actually, every human enterprise should be practiced within morally acceptable boundaries, not only medicine and biology. To give an example, human labor is OK as long as it doesn’t involve work conditions that are dangerous or harmful to the health, and child labor also falls outside of morally acceptable boundaries.
 
So, my question is simply: Why? What is it about biology that creates such a visceral discomfort?
There is nothing about biology as a science that creates visceral discomfort. It is only when the biological description of a human being is regarded as a complete description that it becomes objectionable because it is based on the crude metaphysical assumption that a person is no more than a physical organism - and therefore simply another species of animal…
 
Hiyas:)
Correct. It is not the role of science to make the ethical judgment calls. Of course the individual scientists can and should make their concerns heard, as it happened in the case of the atomic bomb.
Who better to make concerns known? Do I really want a scientist that won’t use ethics judgments in their endeavors? That won’t ask or present the moral / ethical ramifications?
Sorry, who defines what?
I was referring to Eugenics, Sorry, Who decides which qualities are of value? The Marie Stoples of the world? Peter Singers? The UN? Utilitarians?
The material is not relevant. The vision can be restored by laser surgery. A new heart can be developed of natual tissue - in theory for today. A new kidney, likewise. Even with our current, pretty crude technology we can enhance the quality of human life. Just because a broken bone can be replaced by a metal counterpart, the original human will not be declared “less human”.
In a perfect world - this is true.
Too old. 🙂 The largest power of 2 that I can reasonably expect to live. The next one has been achieved, but only by a very few people.
Soooo…2 to the 6th power?

I’m trying for 2 to the 4th power…but it’s a way off 😃
 
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