Religion has caused more harm than the devil

[openfordiscussion]

Dear all,

I hope you are all well and your families during the coronavirus epidemic.

Looking back at human history of the last 2000 years, there is much talk of the evil of the devil, but looking at it logically the devil has never as far as I am aware physically appeared.

So with all due respect to everyone’s religious faith, logically religion has caused more damage and death than the devil. Are we not shifting blame onto the devil for no reason at all because the devil does not as far as I am aware physically exist, and shouldn’t we be doing more to prevent war by talking and listening more?

Religions of all faiths have so much money and power but they have failed continually to solve the worlds major problems, homelessness, famine and drought and poverty.

What are your thoughts?

Warmest regards and best wishes to all

Ben

 

[Cathoholic]

mypoetry . . .

What are your thoughts?

I think the religion of paganism,
along with a paganism variant - the religion of atheistic secular humanism -
has caused by far the most harm/problems of all.

That is my thoughts.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Vico]

…
Are we not shifting blame onto the devil for no reason at all, and shouldn’t we be doing more to prevent war?
…

The Catholic Church teaches that man is the cause of moral evil. Those that do evil are said to be “of the devil” because the devil is the original fallen angel. As stated in scripture 1 John 8 “He that committeth sin is of the devil:”

No doubt more should be done to prevent war, but that does not mean to ignore our duty to protect.

Catechism

2304 Respect for and development of human life require peace. Peace is not merely the absence of war, and it is not limited to maintaining a balance of powers between adversaries. Peace cannot be attained on earth without safeguarding the goods of persons, free communication among men, respect for the dignity of persons and peoples, and the assiduous practice of fraternity. Peace is "the tranquillity of order."97 Peace is the work of justice and the effect of charity.98

 

[stpurl]

It rather depends on how one defines ‘religion’, does it not?

If you define it as some kind of ideology and give each ideology equal weight, then the Aztecs who practiced human sacrifice are more culpable than Nazis, as you would not consider them to be a ‘religion’ and would instead blame Christianity, as most were baptized Christian, as the ‘religion’ which caused the harm.

So let’s get straight what you mean by religion, and then let’s talk about which religion gets things ‘right’. And then you have to decide how you decide what is ‘right’.

And then you get to figure out, since post Christianity at least if that’s the major religion you want to blame, if there are any other factors beside ‘religion’ to consider. Was religion ‘dominant’ or did it defer to the State? Were so-called religious wars based on trying to ‘convert’ or on gaining territory (a secular aim). Can you truly and impartially evaluate based not on your personal 21st century world view ‘after the fact’ but on what was known and accepted ‘back then’, realizing that even our enlightened world is going to have a deepening understanding of various issues that may lead to people 30 years from now castigating YOU for your so-called ‘values’ and finding you wanting? Calling you evil and harmful when you thought you were doing the right thing, but you didn’t have all the ‘knowledge’ they will supposedly have decades from now?

 

[adamhovey1988]

Stalin was an atheist. Marx was an atheist. Mao Zedong was an atheist. But you know, it’s religion that’s the problem.

 

[openfordiscussion]

The ending of physical suffering would be a wonderful thing.

I think we have all the resources to solve problems permanently but we keep throwing money at problems such as homelessness and famine and drought.

It is a futile exercise. We have all the raw materials available on government owned land to build houses for £30,000 GBP If the Government would allocate land and allow use of resources.

You could house every homeless person in caravans or static homes for around £700 million pounds as a temporary measure. We are spending hundreds of billions of pounds in the UK and worldwide helping out shopkeepers.

We have the money to do this, so why not for solving homelessness?

Famine and drought could be solved by increasing speeds of planes, building warehouses in which to grow crops and desalinating the seawater.

The world will never be perfect but if we strive to prevent war and fight to prevent wars beginning and increase understanding, there will be more money for healthcare and education.

Self flagellation is well and good but humanity continues to make the same mistakes again and again without learning.

It is a shame, and this coronavirus outbreak shows how well we can all work together, so why not in other areas?

 

[openfordiscussion]

I guess it is a sorrowful meandering.

I see the past and the wars and the death tolls because of arguments, the Crusades, etc south America and the massive slaughter of the native population.

My religion is better than yours causing massive deaths. I hope we will learn and not continually keep killing, no matter what religion we are.

Disagreements can cause death and cost huge amounts of money, money that could be spent on fighting poverty and homelessness etc.

I see the huge cost of weapons, rebuilding after war, the loss of population, the loss of money generated because of loss of population, the slowing of the advancement of the world and it is extremely frustrating.

 

[openfordiscussion]

Also, religion fails spectacularly to solve rape, there is a massive failure to teach morals properly in my opinion. I hope for a better education system.

 

[TheIttyBitty]

You won’t get the privilege of seeing/knowing/understanding all the effects of good and evil in the world (including that which you bring/brought about, those around you, etc) until it’s too late to change your understanding/belief on the matter.

If you only look at what you see as the failing from a physical perspective, the world will always look like the be all end all, but it is not. There’s much much more after this (a whole eternity).

God works all things for the good of those that love Him. That is from a realm entirely outside of space/time.

You do what you can in this life with the charity you give to others (prayer, donation, helping hand, offering time, etc), but this isn’t an end, after this, there’s eternity. To worry about how others spend their free will is to think that God doesn’t work all things for the good of those that love Him.

 

[fhansen]

Religions of all faiths have so much money and power but they have failed continually to solve the worlds major problems, homelessness, famine and drought and poverty.

What does religion have do with it? People do very ugly things-because they WANT to-whether in the name of God or satan or some stupid philosophy or politics or just out of pure honest selfishness. And solving all the worlds problems? That’s a bit naive. For its part Christianity virtually put altruism on the world map. Rather than vanquish one’s enemies we’re now instructed to love them. Rather than hate and seek revenge we’re now to forgive, mercy and love being put at the forefront of everything.

Countless hospitals and orphanages built over the centuries, volunteer work spent, money donated to feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Education, including the university system, was developed by the Church, learning having been preserved through the dark ages by the monasteries. Strides in science and the arts and the pursuit of excellence in general all supported by the Church which gave us a totally new and higher ideal, that of purpose and order and love existing at the very foundations of this universe. Offering hope to an otherwise hopeless and meaningless and dying world, the knowledge of eternal life at the high point of that hope.

But don’t expect humans to embrace that light too easily-we want our own way and will often step all over others to get it-Church members not excluded. Humans are a proud and self-righteousness and obstinate bunch.

 

[Hodos]

Looking back at human history of the last 2000 years, there is much talk of the evil of the devil, but looking at it logically the devil has never as far as I am aware physically appeared.

A couple things. No one has said that Satan has a material body. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist. We can observe the effects of Satan however in sin. We see through the Fall of mankind due to the tempting of Satan the incredibly invasive nature of sin upon mankind and upon the world.

So with all due respect to everyone’s religious faith, logically religion has caused more damage and death than the devil.

We reject the first premise that the devil does not exist. Hence I see no reason to grant your second premise that religion is more damaging than the devil. On the contrary we recognize that through Satan’s lies both mankind, and the world, are in bondage to sin and thoroughly corrupted by it. Hence, I can see no more evil being than Satan, the Father of Lies. Rather, religion as instituted by God himself brings us to Christ the redeemer of mankind and the world from the power of sin, death, and the devil.

Are we not shifting blame onto the devil for no reason at all because the devil does not as far as I am aware physically exist, and shouldn’t we be doing more to prevent war by talking and listening more?

Who says we are shifting blame? We accept our responsibility that we are sinful and cannot free ourselves, and that we are justly condemned by God’s law. And yet, God has provided his Son, Jesus Christ, that we might be delivered from the power of sin and the devil.

Religions of all faiths have so much money and power but they have failed continually to solve the worlds major problems, homelessness, famine and drought and poverty.

This is not because of the teachings of Christianity, rather it is because of the pervasive nature of Sin. If we followed God’s law, I think you would agree that we would be in a much better state. The issue is we don’t follow it. We don’t love our neighbor as ourselves, and we sin in both acts of commission and omission.

And although you are attempting to lay the blame for failures to fix the world’s problems on religion, atheism offers no solutions, rather atheism removes the moral institutes that would only worsen our plight in sin.

That being said, you seem to be placing your hopes in man’s efforts, which is hopeless given his enslavement to sin, rather than in Christ.

 

[BartholomewB]

because the devil does not as far as I am aware physically exist,

If the devil doesn’t physically exist, how can he cause harm? Look at the title you put on this thread: Religion has caused more harm than the devil.What does that mean, if there is no devil?

As to the claim that religion can and does cause harm, yes, of course it does, we all know that. Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum. That’s one of the most frequently quoted lines in the whole of Latin poetry. Lucretius wrote it back in the days, at around the same time that Julius Caesar was invading Britain. You’re not telling us anything we haven’t heard before.

 

[nicholasG]

Religions of all faiths have so much money and power but they have failed continually to solve the worlds major problems, homelessness, famine and drought and poverty.

How do expect religions to solve all these problems. They can’t even solve their own problems like sexual abuse and the cover ups. In my opinion anyone who covers up for these sexually abusive priests is just as guilty.

 

[openfordiscussion]

When it comes to the massive rape problem religion and Christianity changed a system that was in place for 449,000 years, and that told people it was wrong to have sex before marriage, and to deny their sexual urges and oppress them, oppress something that they previously wanted to do. Looking at the rape statistics and the countless rapes by religious workers, religion and Christianity shot themselves in the foot.

Yes, there are various interpretations on the devil. You can interpret many ways. I will read more.

 

[Inbonum]

Religions of all faiths have so much money and power but they have failed continually to solve the worlds major problems, homelessness, famine and drought and poverty.

Those problems probably will never be solved… And if they hipotetically would, how we would help someone? How we would be mercyful to others? To whom to be charitable??
I as Catholic believe in Eternal life and we can live well in this world but this world isn’t endless. Eternal life is much more important.

Do you know how much Church helps to abandoned, sick, hemeless?? Do you know how much bigger problem is spiritual hemelessness and poorness?

I think that it is not possible to give an answer that will satisfy you because you look at this theme from another perspective.

but looking at it logically the devil has never as far as I am aware physically appeared.

Devil is spiritual being so you probably won’t see some monster with six hands and four legs. Believe it or not he exists, much alive.

The ending of physical suffering would be a wonderful thing.

I think we have all the resources to solve problems permanently but we keep throwing money at problems such as homelessness and famine and drought.

You stated different thing in your other post.

Somehow I am not convinced you know what you talk about or you are troll.

 

[Fauken]

and that told people it was wrong to have sex before marriage, and to deny their sexual urges and oppress them,

Catholicism teaches that there’s a proper place for sex. It tells people to deny their sexual urges no more than it tells people to not be a glutton when it comes to food.

Looking at the rape statistics and the countless rapes by religious workers, religion and Christianity shot themselves in the foot.

Rape is not merely caused by repression. Rape is a crime of violence. Lavrentiy Beria, who was married and had a daughter, raped numerous women in Russia and used his position to force women to have sex with him (“You want your father to be freed from the gulag?”). He was an Atheist. His KGB tortured and killed priests for the crime of spreading religion and being priests. Did religion cause him to do that? How about the Soviet army as it marched through Germany?

People will be cruel for whatever reason they want.

 

[blackforest]

What are your thoughts?

Anybody who does evil and cloaks it in God’s name is doing the harm of the devil.

 

[Vanny]

Yes. Atheistic communist utopias that are supposed to make everyone equal have killed millions, maybe billions of people in order to clear the way for a “better” society. They got rid of all people standing in the way of their “utopias.” You only have to look at the Bolshevik revolution, the French Revolution the Cristeros Wars, Pol Pot, Mao Ze Dong, etc.
I include Hitler and the Holocaust in this as he was not a Christian as some claim but a theosophist.(pagan)

 

[vsedriver]

The ending of physical suffering would be a wonderful thing.

yes, we call that ‘heaven’. We could have heaven on earth if everyone could follow Jesus Christ perfectly, but we are not perfect.

I think we have all the resources to solve problems permanently but we keep throwing money at problems such as homelessness and famine and drought.

resources are fine but knowing what causes a problem is how you make a plan to solve it.

You could house every homeless person in caravans or static homes for around £700 million pounds as a temporary measure

homelessness is far more complicated then just needing a roof over your head. Homelessness encompasses addiction and mental illness. You can’t force someone to stop using and you can’t force someone to take meds for mental illness.

You might look into what happened when San Francisco decided to move the homeless into hotels during the corona pandemic. Sounds like a perfect solution, doesn’t it? Hotels are empty, homeless need a place to stay! It didn’t go well.

We are spending hundreds of billions of pounds in the UK and worldwide helping out shopkeepers.

small business is the life blood of the economy. They are the biggest employers in the world. Keeping people working stabilizes society.

Famine and drought could be solved by increasing speeds of planes, building warehouses in which to grow crops and desalinating the seawater.

You won’t solve famine as long as some people use food to stay in power. Dictators starve their people so they can keep control of them. You can have all the food in the world ready to be passed out but people will still starve to death if the local government prevents people from getting it. The world currently produces plenty of food to end famine. It’s not a transportation issue.

Drought is also complicated. You have to look at the root cause and not all root causes are the same. Are people living in the wrong place? Is the climate changing? If we move the people where do we put them? Did they exhaust their natural resources? Is this just a rare weather anomaly?

You see how complicated it really is.

Desalination is very, very expensive. But nuclear energy would help to make it less expensive. You do support nuclear energy use, right?

Self flagellation is well and good but humanity continues to make the same mistakes again and again without learning.

a word to the wise, knowledge doesn’t make you mistake free. We are trapped by our fallen human nature. For every villain there is a saint. While you dwell on the problems of the world, reflect on the blessings of the world.

Advances in agriculture, treatment of disease, the spread of literacy… focus on YOU doing your best to improve the world. We can only fix it one person at a time. Deep faith in Jesus Christ is what keeps us going.

 

[Cathoholic]

mypoetry . . .

We have the money to do this, so why not for solving homelessness?

If you ever worked with homeless people you would know some of them LIKE and CHOOSE to live that way.

Others are mentally disabled and should probably be institutionalized

I was there in the seventies and watched the leftists dismantle that system to the extent they did.