Religion in England

[dumbseeker]

I was reading something about England. It is saying that there are not that many religious people in England as oppose to the U.S.

Is that true? Do the British tend to be less religious? Are there any british in this forum?

No offense towards any british.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

From what I’ve heard from my American friends who’ve visited Europe, the British do tend to be less religious–it’s not a bad thing at all.

In a spiritual sense, I really do think they are a little more advanced than we are, but I can’t confirm that until I take my own trip there one day. There’s definitely no doubt that they are far more tolerant than we are.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[ChristianKnight]

I don’t know how its less religious then America, I mean ya, a lot of the people here go to a church, but they are hardly religious. They usually go to church and believe that is it, and then they can go about their daily lives and never worry about sinning, that is why I only go to church for youth group.

 

[Ag_not]

I was reading something about England. It is saying that **there are not that many religious people in England **as oppose to the U.S.

There are many religious people in Britian, but Christianity seems to be under threat according to this article:

2008 data:
According to reporter Ruth Gledhill, the document Religious Trends published by Christian Research estimates that:

By 2035, **1.96 million Muslims – double the number attending today – will be attending mosques. They will outnumber Christians who attend churches. **
*Church attendance in Britain is declining so fast that the “Church of England, Catholicism and other denominations will become financially unviable.” By 2030, the number of Anglican churches in the UK will drop to 10,000 with an average attendance of 35 persons. * By 2050 only about 0.9 million Christians will go to church. There will be only 3,600 churchgoing Methodists, 87,899 members of the Church of Enland, 101,700 Roman Catholics, 4,400 Presbyterians, 123,000 Baptists, and 168,000 independent Christians.
Calls for disestablishment of the Church of England, which has been the official church, will likely result.

Martin Salter, the Labour Member of Parliament for Reading West and a member of Reading inter-faith group, said:

“I think all faiths could be treated equally under our constitution. These figures demonstrate the absurdity of favoring one brand of Christianity over other parts of the Christian faith and the many other religions that grace our shores.”

Hazel Blears, the Communities Secretary said:

“We will look at these findings very closely. **Britain is a secular democracy **with a strong Christian tradition but many faiths have a home in Britain.”

David Voas, a professor of population studies at the Institute for Social Change at the University of Manchester, said:

“The difficulty is in retaining the children who have churchgoing parents. So long as churchgoing is something that gets you laughed at, so long as there is a social stigma attached to being a churchgoing young person, it will be difficult to reverse the trend.”
For young Muslims, “Being religious is a way that you show you are different, that you are proud of your heritage. One of the ways young Muslims assert their identity is by being more observant than their parents.” 6

Reporter Sarah Miloudi reports that, according to the same study, church attendance in Wales could decline to less than a quarter of its current level by 2050, from 200,000 to fewer than 40,000. In England it is predicted to fall from three million to 700,000. In Scotland it is expected to decline from 550,000 to 140,000 in the same period. The study notes that Methodist and Presbyterian members are mainly over 65 years-of-age, are dying off, and not being replaced. A church merger is predicted.

The Archbishop of Wales, Dr Barry Morgan, noted that the role of the church in today’s society is changing. Church attendance is no longer a good measure of its effect on society.

Lynda Barley, head of research for the Church of England, said that her church felt there was “no reason” to believe attendance would drop as predicted.

The Rev James Karran of the Ararat Baptist church in Whitchurch, Cardiff, and the non-denominational pub church, Solace, said:

“I have read about some figures of where we will be in terms of church going in the next few years. The church is seen as outdated and irrelevant. I do not think this is the case, and I think the Christian message of hope still has a lot to say. I think a lot depends on how this message is put across, as people see the old church buildings and 10 AM starts for services and don’t want that. The church is only just starting to realize things need to be done differently. It will take a few years before we know if this has worked.”

Not a great picture huh?

 

[Rolltide]

I don’t know how its less religious then America, I mean ya, a lot of the people here go to a church, but they are hardly religious. They usually go to church and believe that is it, and then they can go about their daily lives and never worry about sinning, that is why I only go to church for youth group.

I can tell you first hand, since I have traveled extensively overseas, that most parts of Europe, in general, are FAR less religious than the United States. In England, you’d be hard pressed to find even 10% of the population participating in religion at ALL, with the possible exceptions of baptisms, weddings, and funerals. In Holland, hardly anyone attends religious services anymore. The Protestant churches are almost dead, and the Catholic Church has begun to decline even in places like Ireland, Spain, and Italy. (Malta is a good, faithful holdout, with about 95% of the population practicing their faith! )

 

[Auriel]

I have heard that as well. And TBH, I only know a few from the UK who are Christian. I discovered that the majority of the people I know in the UK are pagan. Pagan is used as an umbrella term however. It pretty much covers all. Wiccans, Druids, Odinists, pantheists, etc…

In 2002 it was estimated that there was close to 200 thousand pagans in the UK. About 5 years ago it was said to be the 8th largest religion in the Isles.

The BBC did an article on Paganism not to long ago. Stated that it was growing due to a decline in Christianity in Europe and due to people searching for their earlier roots.

Last estimate in the UK, (using pagan as an umbrella term), some sources claimed that there were over One Million pagans living in the British Isles.

I have asked my friends about Christianity and the Churches over there. They said it is mainly just the elderly who attend.

I had also planned a trip several years ago to the Pyrenees. I asked a Spanish group what to expect and if there were any cultural taboos and also about the Church. They told me most in Spain are not religious at all, but if anyone asked they would say they were catholic.

It was interesting.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

I see there are many Muslims living peacefully in England, and some of them are the white britons. Did Islam spread there peacefully?

Thanks

 

[Dempsey1919]

I speak from my own personal experience, but this is how I see the state of religion in England:

England is now a multi-cultural society and most religions are represented here. We have large communities of Asians and other foreign peoples who tend to stick to their own housing estates and do not really integrate with the rest of society. Religion tends to be very important to the immigrant communities, and society life seems to revolve around Mosque attendance and other religious festivals. The immigrant groups are far more religious than the native British; and this is one of the reasons for the growth of Islam in my country. Of all of the religions in England, Islam seems to be the strongest of them all. Increased immigration and birth rates will help England become a majority Muslim country in the next couple of decades.

Despite the growth of Islam and other Asian religions, Christianity is still considered the main creed of England. England is still a Christian country, but in name only. Most people identify themselves as “Christian” but they do not practice the faith and know very little about it. We are a nation of cultural Christians; people label themselves Christians but do not actually believe in Christ or his teachings. I do not have the statistics, but most people do not attend weekly Church services. The number of practicing Christians is extremely small. Even though there are some practicing Christians, they don’t seem to be very vocal about their faith.

When I visited America, people seemed far more comfortable expressing their faith in public. People seemed proud of their Catholicity; religion was something that shaped their public identity. Church attendance in America is far greater; I was shocked to see how full the Churches were for Mass attendance. The faith in England pales in comparison with the faith in America. The Catholic Church in America is vibrant and passionate. The Church in England seems tired and worn out. The American Catholic Church is also more assertive in the defence of the faith. You have the Catholic League and places such as Catholic Answers to help defend and promote the Catholic faith. In England, we don’t have anything like this.

In my experience, most practicing Catholics in this country are over the age of 60. I am 22 and I don’t know anybody else who is my age and Catholic. I can count on my hand the number of times I have seen a younger person attend Mass. However, I do know that other parishes around the country have a sizeable population of young practicing Catholics; for example the Dominicans in London have a strong faith community. So, from my experience, the faith in England is not great, but it is not really bad. I would say religion no longer plays a role in public events or politics; it is a private affair that doesn’t really affect people’s lives. Religion in America is far stronger and more widely practiced.

 

[Kaninchen]

Increased immigration and birth rates will help England become a majority Muslim country in the next couple of decades.

You expect the million Polish Catholic immigrants the UK has seen over the past few years to convert to Islam and breed at an outrageous speed? Otherwise I can’t see how you expect 1.6 million Muslims to become a majority of the 60 million in the UK in centuries, never mind a couple of decades.

Nothing like a bit of scaremongering though.

 

[CWBetts]

Is there still the blatant mistrust, or even hatred, of Catholics in England that took root in the 16th century? I had a Tudor-Stuart course in college and found myself annoyed at the anti-Catholic bias of the prof.

 

[Kaninchen]

Is there still the blatant mistrust, or even hatred, of Catholics in England that took root in the 16th century? I had a Tudor-Stuart course in college and found myself annoyed at the anti-Catholic bias of the prof.

I expect the total indifference tends to be frightening to some.

 

[Steadfast]

You expect the million Polish Catholic immigrants the UK has seen over the past few years to convert to Islam and breed at an outrageous speed? Otherwise I can’t see how you expect 1.6 million Muslims to become a majority of the 60 million in the UK in centuries, never mind a couple of decades.

Nothing like a bit of scaremongering though.

You’re right that a real majority is, even admitting the possibility, a long, long way off.

But I think that, as in France, the concern is not with pure numbers of nominal or cultural adherents but rather with the idea that even 1 or 2 million committed, devout and practicing Muslims would constitute a religious power base for which the rest would have no answer.

One wonders if state secularism has anything with which to counter increasing Muslim requests for religious entitlements and, if not, where it will end.

 

[Kaninchen]

You’re right that a real majority is, even admitting the possibility, a long, long way off.

But I think that, as in France, the concern is not with pure numbers of nominal or cultural adherents but rather with the idea that even 1 or 2 million committed, devout and practicing Muslims would constitute a religious power base for which the rest would have no answer.

One wonders if state secularism has anything with which to counter increasing Muslim requests for religious entitlements and, if not, where it will end.

Seriously?

The fashion for reactionary Islam is just that, a fashion - just as European youth rebellions of the 60’s and 70’s became a fashion for revolutionary new shopping experiences in the 80’s onwards - and European Islam will end up being the greatest threat to normative Islam imaginable - skepticism, shopping and home improvements.

 

[CWBetts]

Seriously?

The fashion for reactionary Islam is just that, a fashion - just as European youth rebellions of the 60’s and 70’s became a fashion for revolutionary new shopping experiences in the 80’s onwards - and European Islam will end up being the greatest threat to normative Islam imaginable - skepticism, shopping and home improvements.

How long will ypu hide your head in the sand? Even in the US, Muslims are not happy unless they get considerations no one else gets, and try to force their mores on society as a whole.

 

[Kaninchen]

How long will ypu hide your head in the sand? Even in the US, Muslims are not happy unless they get considerations no one else gets, and try to force their mores on society as a whole.

Of course, nobody else wants to get politicians to enforce the moral codes of their religion on society, do they? You can tell that by reading threads on CAF, the Politics: 2008 board in particular.

 

[CWBetts]

I am not talking about life issues. I am talking about dietary restrictions in public schools! Did you know in some schools in the Chicago area, Jell-O is no longer served as to not offend the muslims? That would be like requiring public sscools to refrain from serving meat on fridays as to not offend Catholics who abstain on fridays. This is about forcing non-muslims to conform to specifically muslim ideals. This is not based in what is percieved to be human rights, but an attempt to push specific religious practices on those who do not practice.

 

[Kaninchen]

I am not talking about life issues. I am talking about dietary restrictions in public schools! Did you know in some schools in the Chicago area, Jell-O is no longer served as to not offend the muslims? That would be like requiring public sscools to refrain from serving meat on fridays as to not offend Catholics who abstain on fridays. This is about forcing non-muslims to conform to specifically muslim ideals. This is not based in what is percieved to be human rights, but an attempt to push specific religious practices on those who do not practice.

I can see that lack of Jell-O in schools is a major affront to right-thinking Christians and an attack on the very fundamentals of American liberty.

As a vegetarian Jewess, I don’t find Muslim dietary rules offensive however.

 

[Sarabande]

I’m in no way an expert in this, so I’m just speaking from what my experience was like over there. I did a semester in London a few years back and visited the Catholic as well as the Anglican churches around in London for mass, vespers or to just see it (in regards to the Anglican churches). At the time, I didn’t find much difference in attendance there and here in the States. It is perhaps different outside of London, though. The only difference I noted was that people do not talk about their faith openly, although, Catholics here don’t talk about their faith openly unless you really know them.

I’ve been back two more times as a visitor since then. I only attended mass once outside of London and it was decently attended like it was over here in the States. The Brompton Oratory in London was constantly packed with standing room only the times I went to Latin mass there at my last visit. But I would imagine that is probably an exception to the rule.

I keep hearing about France being irreligious and perhaps it is as I have never lived there and have only visited a few days at a time, but the few times I’ve been there, the masses seemed to be very packed. We would attend about 3 or 4 masses on Sunday and Saturday just to experience the mass at the small and large churches around the city. At a couple churches (not the popular ones) my husband and I had to stand during mass and this was when we visited in the cold of March - not tourist season. Again, though, it is in Paris, so it may be different outside of Paris.

In Italy I found the attendance very lackluster in the town that I stayed in for a few weeks. It was disappointing.

In Salzburg, I couldn’t get over at how religious the city was during the time I stayed there for study. Many young religious and priests walking around, packed churches for mass. (It was another place I made sure to visit more than one church on Sundays to experience the masses there.)

 

[CWBetts]

I can see that lack of Jell-O in schools is a major affront to right-thinking Christians and an attack on the very fundamentals of American liberty.

As a vegetarian Jewess, I don’t find Muslim dietary rules offensive however.

You are missing the point. American public schools should not make menu decisions because of relifous dietary restrictions. Muslims should do what school children have done for years: pack their lunch. At my high school, for years we had meat and meatless selections on fridays, and likewise we had selections to accomodate those who did not eat pork. The schools in question suggested a compromise first: alternative selections for muslims. That was not good enough. Everyone, uslim or not had to conform. If they are this insistent in matters as trivial as Jell-O, what happens when they start pushing for more severe reforms?

 

[Kaninchen]

You are missing the point. American public schools should not make menu decisions because of relifous dietary restrictions. Muslims should do what school children have done for years: pack their lunch. At my high school, for years we had meat and meatless selections on fridays, and likewise we had selections to accomodate those who did not eat pork. The schools in question suggested a compromise first: alternative selections for muslims. That was not good enough. Everyone, uslim or not had to conform. If they are this insistent in matters as trivial as Jell-O, what happens when they start pushing for more severe reforms?

As I said, I can see that the Jell-O issue is of supreme importance but probably not for this thread.