"Religion is child abuse" !?

[victrolatim]

I was flipping through the radio in the car today when I came across a rather bizarre rant. I caught a few minutes before turning it off in disgust. Sometimes I like to hear some of these things for the sake of knowing how to evangelize; you don’t know what you’re up against if you don’t know what the other half is thinking. Anyhow, the individual was ranting about how religion is “child abuse” and how indoctrinating children and teaching them that “fables are facts” leads to closed-minded and weaker minded individuals who are prone to be taken advantage of. Of course, the speaker seemed to target Christianity and brought up sexual abuse cases, etc. I don’t think I’ve ever heard this argument before and was trying to think up intelligent ways to refute it if I was ever confronted with it personally. Thoughts?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I was flipping through the radio in the car today when I came across a rather bizarre rant. I caught a few minutes before turning it off in disgust. Sometimes I like to hear some of these things for the sake of knowing how to evangelize; you don’t know what you’re up against if you don’t know what the other half is thinking. Anyhow, the individual was ranting about how religion is “child abuse” and how indoctrinating children and teaching them that “fables are facts” leads to closed-minded and weaker minded individuals who are prone to be taken advantage of. Of course, the speaker seemed to target Christianity and brought up sexual abuse cases, etc. I don’t think I’ve ever heard this argument before and was trying to think up intelligent ways to refute it if I was ever confronted with it personally. Thoughts?

I’d like to start this out by saying, if you come across someone who believes this sort of thing, no amount of intelligent discourse is going to change their mind. People who’ve bought into this sort of idea have basically abandoned reason for sensationalism.

With that said, ask them if they teach their children about right and wrong. When they say yes, ask them if they teach them history, then if they teach them about their cultural heritage. They may say no to that last one, so follow up with if they think it’s okay to teach them about their cultural heritage. When they respond yes, tell them that this is your cultural heritage, and your history, and your morality, and this is the core of where it is derived from. If it is okay for them to teach their children about these things, then it is equally okay for you to.

At this point, they will likely fly into a string of rants about how evil Christianity is and how many terrible things it’s done, and how it’s destroying families and killing people, etc. At this point, all you can do it listen patiently, pray for them, and remember that they are not speaking from history, they are speaking from emotion and indoctrination.

 

[St_Francis]

I’ve heard a lot of people make this comparison.
I agree that religion can be used in a way that could harm a child psychologically and socially–and harm those around them–if the child is being taught that people who follow other religions or no religion at all are wrong or intolerable or bad people.

Also, “indoctrinating” children can lessen their chance of being able to make their own decision as to whether they think a religion is true or right nor not and can lead to close-mindedness.
Re the “weaker minded” thing…well, if a child is taught not to make decisions on their own but depend on others to always tell them what is right or true, I can see how that thinking can impair them.

Everything you have said about religion can be said about today’s secular, humanistic worldview as well.

For example, it was suggested to me very emphatically that I should not let my children chose to go to a Catholic college because college is for broadening the mind with different viewpoints. I suggested that i would consider that advice when the person told parents from liberal, secular families that they should send their children to traditional Catholic schools to expose *them *to different points of view.

I see lots of teens and young adults who see only the liberal secularism they have been taught. They, too, are close-minded. They do not consider alternate points of view; they do not question what they have learned from their parents.

Ever heard of peer pressure? That’s where kids get their morality from their friends, and usually to their detriment when it comes to sex and drugs. And what is the proposed solution? *For parents to talk with their children and let them know what they (the parents) believe. *

Even as I watch adults here on this forum, I see some warning others not to read about other religions or belief systems or listen to different opinions or step foot into other churches for fear they will be swayed.

When people who want to stay Catholic or become Catholic read a lot of conflicting ideas, it can be bemusing. Do you really think that the time to read a lot of alternatives is when a person is just starting out? That leads to paralysis.

Most of the people who are here are adults who are able to judge the efficacy of the advice offered to them given the circumstances which they reveal. What would you tell a beginning atheist if he kept backsliding by reading about religion and God?

Advice like that can keep people–both children and adults–fearful from exploring various thoughts and ideas outside of the strict boundaries of what they’ve been taught…therefore: close-minded.

Yeah, because secular liberals are so openminded…

 

[esieffe]

I have read on CAF blogs and from other sources sexual abuse runs around the same percentages in institutional settings, regardless of creed.

I would say that it is the absence of religion that is child abuse. The absence of church community support, the absence of teachings that speak of love, honor, kindness to others, the sacred rules to which we aspire. The teaching of sacrifices made on our behalf.

I would say the absence of religion, of God, can leave the door open for things that might take root that would be more difficult otherwise. That leaves the door much further open for child abuse.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I would argue that telling children that their parents are killing the planet every time they start their car, or take a plane trip, or don’t recycle is definitely child abuse.

 

[cornbread_r2]

See this article for examples of how religious beliefs sometimes result in child abuse.

 

[St_Francis]

See this article for examples of how religious beliefs sometimes result in child abuse.

Note they have a couple of isolated cases, then go into parents who didn’t vaccinate, many of whom refused out of reasons other than religious. And I am sad to read almost every day about cases of child abuse involving non-religious parents as well.

Stuff happens: parents do idiotic things for all sorts of reasons. The fact that some of those reasons pertain to religious beliefs does not mean that raising a child up in a religion is, in and of itself, child abuse.

 

[cornbread_r2]

Note they have a couple of isolated cases, then go into parents who didn’t vaccinate, many of whom refused out of reasons other than religious. And I am sad to read almost every day about cases of child abuse involving non-religious parents as well.

Stuff happens: parents do idiotic things for all sorts of reasons. The fact that some of those reasons pertain to religious beliefs does not mean that raising a child up in a religion is, in and of itself, child abuse.

Apparently, stuff happens a lot. Bear in mind that those are just some of the cases of religiously-justified neglect and only those that resulted in a child’s death.

 

[St_Francis]

Apparently, stuff happens a lot. Bear in mind that those are just some of the cases of religiously-justified neglect and only those that resulted in a child’s death.

We could go back and forth on this, but the point those who rant that raising children religiously make is that putting religious ideas into a child’s head is in and of itself child abuse, not that certain religious practices specific to particular belief systems cause bodily harm or death.

 

[Melissa]

I recall discussing once with a friend who was/is atheist (we have fallen out of touch for other reasons)–I think he’d be more of a soft/negative/implicit atheist. We used to talk about all sorts of things, and at one point, discussion of religion and raising children was the topic.

He opined that children should not be taught any religion during childhood and that when they were “of age” that the child could then reason out to which, if any, religion he chose to adhere. I answered him by saying that what he was proposing was that I (whom he knew to be Catholic) raise my children according to his beliefs rather than my own, and that by so doing, according to my own beliefs, I would be doing harm to my children.

After some discussion, he came to understand that, from my point of view, his position required as much faith in the non-existence of a deity as my own position with faith in a particular God, and that there was no such thing as “value neutral”. Sure, you can teach a child to be indifferent, but you are still choosing a value to teach the child–and that ultimately, the parent should–barring actual harm–teach a child according to their own beliefs and values.

As far as actual harm, he wasn’t of the position that teaching religious faith was abusive, ipso facto, but I suppose if I were talking to someone who did have that position, I would have to start from the point of defining abusive and carrying on from there.

 

[Lea101]

Don’t bother with people like that. Teaching a child about atheism would also seem like indoctrination, right? I mean atheism is still a belief (that there is no God).

Anyway, it’s normal to bring up a child with your culture and faith. I don’t see anything wrong with it. I mean if you look at it from a non religious POV, it’s like, a chinese being taught the origin of the chinese new year. I mean it’s not true but it’s not brainwashing.

Plus, we all learn about other religions at one point of time and most of us have our doubts about the religion we have. We ultimately have the choice to believe what we believe at the end.

 

[Bill_Martin]

I recall discussing once with a friend who was/is atheist (we have fallen out of touch for other reasons)–I think he’d be more of a soft/negative/implicit atheist. We used to talk about all sorts of things, and at one point, discussion of religion and raising children was the topic.

He opined that children should not be taught any religion during childhood and that when they were “of age” that the child could then reason out to which, if any, religion he chose to adhere. I answered him by saying that what he was proposing was that I (whom he knew to be Catholic) raise my children according to his beliefs rather than my own, and that by so doing, according to my own beliefs, I would be doing harm to my children.

After some discussion, he came to understand that, from my point of view, his position required as much faith in the non-existence of a deity as my own position with faith in a particular God, and that there was no such thing as “value neutral”. Sure, you can teach a child to be indifferent, but you are still choosing a value to teach the child–and that ultimately, the parent should–barring actual harm–teach a child according to their own beliefs and values.

As far as actual harm, he wasn’t of the position that teaching religious faith was abusive, ipso facto, but I suppose if I were talking to someone who did have that position, I would have to start from the point of defining abusive and carrying on from there.

Good answer.

A child is always learning. If the parents are not the ones doing the teaching, then peers, the media, schools, etc. will.

 

[Bookcat]

Truth is good for the young.

More so than even vegetables.

Especially the truth of knowing Jesus of Nazareth the Christ!

Withholding such …well that is more in the line of abuse…

 

[cornbread_r2]

We could go back and forth on this, but the point those who rant that raising children religiously make is that putting religious ideas into a child’s head is in and of itself child abuse, not that certain religious practices specific to particular belief systems cause bodily harm or death.

My apologies for the tangent.

In regards to the OP, it seems that likely depends on exactly which religious ideas are being put into a child’s head. For instance, I think it harms children to be taught that medical help is be scorned in favor of prayer, or that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or that Jews are pigs, or (from a personal perspective) that they’re eligible for Hell fire even before they’ve lost all of their baby teeth.

 

[cornbread_r2]

We could go back and forth on this, but the point those who rant that raising children religiously make is that putting religious ideas into a child’s head is in and of itself child abuse, not that certain religious practices specific to particular belief systems cause bodily harm or death.

My apologies for the tangent.

In regards to the OP, it seems that likely depends on exactly which religious ideas are being put into a child’s head. For instance, I think it harms children to be taught that medical help is be scorned in favor of prayer, or that the Earth is 6,000 years old, or that Jews are pigs, or (from a personal perspective) that they’re eligible for Hell fire even before they’ve lost all of their baby teeth, or any number of doctrines that seek to marginalize, if not demonize, non-believers.

 

[mikekle]

well, would you call teaching your kids to hate a certain ethnic group to be child abuse? I have watched videos of a kids show in Palenstine, the guy dressed in a bumble bees costume asking young 5-7 yr olds what they would do if they saw a jewish person on the street, the kids all responded with things like throwing rocks at their head, stabbing them, shooting them with a gun, etc. the bumblebee was praising their answers, telling them, that is great, good job, remember this lesson.

Of course, these kids are going to grow up and have the same beliefs and morals as the terrorists do now, but they truly do not see this as being wrong…therein lies the problem with trying to eradicate terrorism.

 

[St_Francis]

You convinced him that he had “faith” in the non-existence of a deity?
*Whoah. *

Bringing up a child without a specific religion doesn’t necessarily mean you are teaching the child to be indifferent. (if that is what you are saying there).

.

Atheism isn’t a belief; it’s a disbelief.

.

I have to say it takes a lot of faith to believe the natural world all emerged from haphazard collisions of atoms and other random events!