Religion of America

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wyp8riot said:
CHRISTS PLAN OF HAPPINESS v THE WORLDS PLAN OF HAPPINESS

Although we come from many faiths our way of life and the future for our children is under attack. I believe that all though we have differences that we need to work together to fight the evil forces that go against Christs Plan of Happiness! There is a lost History due to satanic inspired Communist anti Religion. Many GOD given rights are already violated and threatened. I find it imperative that we encourage and restore the wisdom and principles discovered by the God inspired founders. We can discuss differences but our freedom requires we come together as the founders did on things that unite us.

THE NORTHWEST ORDINANCE and THE RELIGION OF AMERICA (not to be confused with a one world forced religion)

In 1787 the same congress that ratified the Constitution, were the ones that encouraged Religion, morality, and knowledge,being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind,schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged…

Have you read the Northwest Ordinance?

The following is a link to the text. After scrolling down to Article 3 you will see the order of importance listed as Religion, Morality and Knowledge.

earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/ordinance/text.html

As you will see reading the Northwest Ordinance and by reading historical documents and words of the founding fathers, they believed in Religion and morality. The purpose of Seperation of Church and State was not to seperate God from education and government but rather to prevent the government from embracing any one particular religion as has happened historically.

Regarding Religion and Education the question was then naturally asked “whos religion”?

Religion, Morality and Knowledge was the anchor of the American Culture from 1620 to 1936. The Founders did not create rights. They re-discovered them and realized there were no devine right of kings, rights were a gift from God to all men.

Samuel Adams said -"This is the religion of America…

Ben Franklin said "These are the fundamentals of all sound religion…

Here are the 5 things that all sound religions have in common…
**
  1. There exists a creator who made all things and mankind should recognize and worship him.
  2. The creator has revealed a moral code of behavior for happy living which distinguishes right from wrong.
  3. The creator holds mankind responsible for the way they treat each other.
  4. All mankind live beyond this life.
5.In the next life individuals are judged for their conduct in this one.**

This is the uniting principles of morality that was to be taught in schools and was mandated by congress. It was not until the demise of McGuffy Readers that Religion and Morality were abandoned in our schools to be replaced by a content of trivia and amusement.

sources for more info…

The Miracle of America, by the National Center For Constitutional Studies.

For more information on how the Godless people have intentionally sought to destroy individual rights and freedom read the 45 Goals of Communism from the Communist party. These goals were put into congressional record around 1963.

Keep up the Good fight! -Paul
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**wyp8riot:

I still have questions for you, whenever you get back to this thread. See below:**
Anna_Scott said:
wyp8riot:

I apologize for going off topic; and I appreciate your response.

I said:
“I think “moral” behavior and respect for one another can be taught in school, without connecting the behavior with every single religion.”

You responded: “The founders pointed out that such attempts were historically a failure. This is why they created the Universal Religion, or Religion of America, to teach common basic religion and morality the stated all SOUND religions believed in.”

So, as I said in my last post:
“I’m not quite clear on exactly what you want to change in the school systems.”
  1. Are you advocating the teaching of Mormonism in public schools?
  2. Are you advocating the teaching of all religions in public schools?
  3. Specifically, what do you believe would fulfill the 5 principles in public schools?
Anna
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AJTheMan said:
So if we allow religion in schools, will the great teachings of the Buddha also be taught? Or will it only be Christianity?

It is my hope that if every student has the opportunity for religious education that the transformative teachings of Siddatha Gotama also be taught.
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**AJTheMan:

I do agree with you. I’m not sure what the OP’s intentions are; he has not yet answered my last post. I think it would be unfair to only teach selected religions.
**
wyp8riot said:
“It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” -Patrick Henry
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**wyp8riot:

If you are advocating teaching “Christianity,” the question becomes: which Christianity? The Mormon Christianity is not the same as Catholicism, Orthodox, or most of the Protestant religions.

Anna**
 
AJTheMan said:
And they still taught you about Hinduism and Buddhism?

That’s good. I’m just wondering that if we put religion in schools if my religion will be taught as well. It would only be fair.
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When discussing religion in the public school system I always advocate for a class in high school that teaches the kids about the different religions, yes Buddhism and Hinduism too.
 
Anna_Scott said:
**wyp8riot:

I still have questions for you, whenever you get back to this thread. See below:**

**AJTheMan:

I do agree with you. I’m not sure what the OP’s intentions are; he has not yet answered my last post. I think it would be unfair to only teach selected religions. I agree with this as did the founders. That was the purpose of the Original Post. The religion of America are the 5 universal principles that Catholics, Mormons and ALL SOUND RELIGIONS believe in. Do you have a problem with those 5 principles, the founders said should be taught as they were even mandated by Congress to be so.**

**wyp8riot:

If you are advocating teaching “Christianity,” the question becomes: which Christianity? The Mormon Christianity is not the same as Catholicism, Orthodox, or most of the Protestant religions. Again did you miss the purpose of the Religion of America (the 5 principles above). Do you you disagree with them? That is part of our nations heritage.**

Anna
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Anna_Scott said:
wyp8riot:

I apologize for going off topic; and I appreciate your response.

I said:
“I think “moral” behavior and respect for one another can be taught in school, without connecting the behavior with every single religion.”

You responded: “The founders pointed out that such attempts were historically a failure. This is why they created the Universal Religion, or Religion of America, to teach common basic religion and morality the stated all SOUND religions believed in.”

So, as I said in my last post:
“I’m not quite clear on exactly what you want to change in the school systems.”
  1. Are you advocating the teaching of Mormonism in public schools? NO
  2. Are you advocating the teaching of all religions in public schools? NO
  3. Specifically, what do you believe would fulfill the 5 principles in public schools? This was answered in our nations history I believe. Religion and morality were once a part of the education here. That is a good question that could be another discussion but I dont find anything to complicated about the teachings of the 5 basic principles. That is what I am advocating as a return to allowing religion in schools.
    Anna
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Thank you for the questions, replies In blue above.
 
wyp8riot:

It is still very difficult to determine exactly what you want to change in public schools.

When I asked if you advocate the teaching of Mormonism in public schools; you said, “NO”.

When I asked if you advocate the teaching of all religions in public schools; you said, “NO”.

When I asked, specifically, what you believe would fulfill the “5 principles” in public schools; you answered, “This was answered in our nations history I believe. Religion and morality were once a part of the education here. That is a good question that could be another discussion but I don’t find anything to complicated about the teachings of the 5 basic principles. That is what I am advocating as a return to allowing religion in schools.”

You suggest this is a good question for another discussion? If you are going to advocate fulfilling the “5 principles” in public schools, asking specifically how you believe this should be done, is precisely on topic. Otherwise, what is there to discuss?

When I said, I think it would be unfair to only teach selected religions.
You answered, “**I agree with this as did the founders. **That was the purpose of the Original Post. The religion of America are the 5 universal principles that Catholics, Mormons and ALL SOUND RELIGIONS believe in. Do you have a problem with those 5 principles, the founders said should be taught as they were even mandated by Congress to be so.”

Remember, you said “no” to the teaching of all religions in public schools? Now, you are agreeing that it would be unfair to only teach selected religions in public schools. So, do you want all religions taught in public schools?

When I asked if you advocate teaching the “Christianity” of Mormonism or the Christianity of Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism; you said, " Again did you miss the purpose of the Religion of America (the 5 principles above). Do you you disagree with them? That is part of our nations heritage."

You did not answer my question about which “Christianity” you want to be taught in public schools.

This is a forum discussion. We should not have to follow a link to a Mormon website in order to participate in this discussion. Please provide any quotes from your sources that you believe are applicable to your topic.

Please tell us exactly what you want the public schools to change or implement in order to fulfill the “5 principles.”

Keep in mind, if your answers continue to be evasive, and you are unwilling to answer specific questions about your own topic, the discussion will stall.

Anna
 
I get the impression he wants to teach the “5 basic principles” and call it the “Religion of America.” Of course, that would eliminate all but the three Abrahamic religions. Principle #2 refers to a “revealed moral code” which would obviously be the Bible. It seems that it would end up being basic Christianity with a smattering of Judaism and Islam.

Of course, this way Mormonism could sneak in as being part of the mainstream “Religion of America,” but other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism would be excluded as not “sound religions.”

Of course, this is just my opinion. Maybe he could explain if it would work differently.
 
Xuan said:
I get the impression he wants to teach the “5 basic principles” and call it the “Religion of America.” Of course, that would eliminate all but the three Abrahamic religions. Principle #2 refers to a “revealed moral code” which would obviously be the Bible. It seems that it would end up being basic Christianity with a smattering of Judaism and Islam.

Of course, this way Mormonism could sneak in as being part of the mainstream “Religion of America,” but other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism would be excluded as not “sound religions.”

Of course, this is just my opinion. Maybe he could explain if it would work differently.
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You are right about the “sneaking in” part. Mormonism has its own brand of Christianity.

I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector; however, I do believe in the separation of church and state. I think teaching a few religions, to exclude all others, would not be fair or in the spirit of religious freedom.

I’m trying to get the OP to explain exactly how he thinks the “5 principles” should be implemented in schools. No luck in getting an answer yet.

Anna
 
I too believe in the separation of church and state. The establishment clause in the First Amendment doesn’t say, or mean, “a religion.” It says, and means, “religion” in general. It would be unconstitutional to teach any religion as a state-sponsored religion, including the so called “Religion of America.”

Incidentally, item #3 in the treaty he referenced goes on to promise that the Indian lands will never be invaded or taken away. We all know how that worked out.

Also, since we’re dredging up old treaties, the Treaty of Tripoli states categorically that America is not a Christian nation.
 
wyp8riot said:
Allowing religion in our schools is part of this nations heritage. It is what made the great most free people of modern times. The founders understood the lessons of history well. The social and economical problems today are a result of removing those moral and religious teachings.

“The tenth plank in Karl Marx’s Manifesto for destroying our kind of civilization advocated the establishment of “free education for all children in public schools.” There were several reasons why Marx wanted government to run the schools one of them [was that] ‘It is capable of exact demonstration that if every party in the State has the right of excluding from public schools whatever he does not believe to be true, then he that believes most must give way to him that believes least, and then he that believes least must give way to him that believes absolutely nothing, no matter in how small a minority the atheists or agnostics may be.’ It is self-evident that on this scheme, if it is consistently and persistently carried out in all parts of the country, the United States system of national popular education will be the most efficient and widespread instrument for the propagation of atheism which the world has ever seen.” — Ezra Taft Benson
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Xuan said:
I too believe in the separation of church and state. The establishment clause in the First Amendment doesn’t say, or mean, “a religion.” It says, and means, “religion” in general. It would be unconstitutional to teach any religion as a state-sponsored religion, including the so called “Religion of America.”

Incidentally, item #3 in the treaty he referenced goes on to promise that the Indian lands will never be invaded or taken away. We all know how that worked out.

Also, since we’re dredging up old treaties, the Treaty of Tripoli states categorically that America is not a Christian nation.
Click to expand...
I think wyp8riot may be in over his head in starting this Thread.
 
Xuan said:
I get the impression he wants to teach the “5 basic principles” and call it the “Religion of America.” CLOSE except I didnt call it that, our founding fathers did. Of course, that would eliminate** (do you mean include?) **all but the three Abrahamic religions. Principle #2 refers to a “revealed moral code” which would obviously be the Bible. It seems that it would end up being basic Christianity with a smattering of Judaism and Islam.

Of course, this way Mormonism could sneak in as being part of the mainstream “Religion of America,” but other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism would be excluded as not “sound religions.”

Of course, this is just my opinion. Maybe he could explain if it would work differently.
Click to expand...
Blue replies above.
To clarify this is part of our heritage not something I made up. It was madated in Congress and as Patrick henry stated it is Christianity that allowed freedom of worship and asylum here. The Christian believers were inspired and rediscovered principles of freedom. Why are we acting as if we are doing them some disfavor when these principles gave hope and freedom to mankind that in almost all other instances have lived in opression?
 
Anna_Scott said:
wyp8riot:

It is still very difficult to determine exactly what you want to change in public schools.

When I asked if you advocate the teaching of Mormonism in public schools; you said, “NO”.

When I asked if you advocate the teaching of all religions in public schools; you said, “NO”.

When I asked, specifically, what you believe would fulfill the “5 principles” in public schools; you answered, “This was answered in our nations history I believe. Religion and morality were once a part of the education here. That is a good question that could be another discussion but I don’t find anything to complicated about the teachings of the 5 basic principles. That is what I am advocating as a return to allowing religion in schools.” To clarify the 5 principles are not a religion but universal principles that many religions agree on. I do not believe in state endorsed embracing of one faith such as Catholics or LDS (THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTERDAY SAINTS) That is not the same as teaching religious principles and morality ion school they are seperate. There is an old Law maxim -"something similiar is not exactly the same"

You suggest this is a good question for another discussion? If you are going to advocate fulfilling the “5 principles” in public schools, asking specifically how you believe this should be done, is precisely on topic. Otherwise, what is there to discuss?

When I said, I think it would be unfair to only teach selected religions.
You answered, “**I agree with this as did the founders. **That was the purpose of the Original Post. The religion of America are the 5 universal principles that Catholics, Mormons and ALL SOUND RELIGIONS believe in. Do you have a problem with those 5 principles, the founders said should be taught as they were even mandated by Congress to be so.”
**Perhaps it isnt clear to you that THE RELIGION OF AMERICA isn’t a particular faith but is simply 5 religious principles that are basicly sound and universal in application.**Remember, you said “no” to the teaching of all religions in public schools? Now, you are agreeing that it would be unfair to only teach selected religions in public schools. So, do you want all religions taught in public schools? No, nor did I ever say such. I think you are misinterpreting. See my other comment about the Law Maxim perhaps that will clarify.
When I asked if you advocate teaching the “Christianity” of Mormonism or the Christianity of Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism; you said, " Again did you miss the purpose of the Religion of America (the 5 principles above). Do you you disagree with them? That is part of our nations heritage."

You did not answer my question about which “Christianity” you want to be taught in public schools. The 5 princples are not a particular faith or Christianity but 5 univesally applied principles. Do you disagree with any of them?
This is a forum discussion. We should not have to follow a link to a Mormon website in order to participate in this discussion I did not provide a link to a mormon discussion about this topic. Please provide any quotes from your sources that you believe are applicable to your topic.

Please tell us exactly what you want the public schools to change or implement in order to fulfill the “5 principles.” Return to the religious heritage the nation was founded on the first several hundred years. If you were familiar with such you would have a clearer understanding that this isnt some new idea or my idea it is the foundation of our free nation. Unfortunately it has been lost knowledge that we need to re-evaluate.

Keep in mind, if your answers continue to be evasive, and you are unwilling to answer specific questions about your own topic, the discussion will stall.

Anna
Click to expand...
 
Anna_Scott said:
You are right about the “sneaking in” part. Mormonism has its own brand of Christianity.

I am a Christian in the Protestant Sector; however, I do believe in the separation of church and state. I think teaching a few religions, to exclude all others, would not be fair or in the spirit of religious freedom. I agree that is the meaning of seperation of Church and State, but it is not the same as seperation of religion and state. Maybe the confusion is in common interpretations of the words, religion, faith and church.
I’m trying to get the OP to explain exactly how he thinks the “5 principles” should be implemented in schools. No luck in getting an answer yet.

Anna
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BLUE.

As for the 5 principles that is a good question, not that I am avoiding but that it is a deeper discussion that is related to the History of Our Nations religious heritage. These answers were already answered in part but unfortunately many of us are clueless to the answers in or own history.

Do you disagree with teaching the 5 universal principles? Because I dont thinkl you have answered that yet?
 
wyp8riot said:
CHRISTS PLAN OF HAPPINESS v THE WORLDS PLAN OF HAPPINESS

Although we come from many faiths our way of life and the future for our children is under attack. I believe that all though we have differences that we need to work together to fight the evil forces that go against Christs Plan of Happiness! There is a lost History due to satanic inspired Communist anti Religion. Many GOD given rights are already violated and threatened. I find it imperative that we encourage and restore the wisdom and principles discovered by the God inspired founders. We can discuss differences but our freedom requires we come together as the founders did on things that unite us.

THE NORTHWEST ORDINANCE and THE RELIGION OF AMERICA (not to be confused with a one world forced religion)

In 1787 the same congress that ratified the Constitution, were the ones that encouraged Religion, morality, and knowledge,being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind,schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged…

Have you read the Northwest Ordinance?

The following is a link to the text. After scrolling down to Article 3 you will see the order of importance listed as Religion, Morality and Knowledge.

earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/ordinance/text.html

As you will see reading the Northwest Ordinance and by reading historical documents and words of the founding fathers, they believed in Religion and morality. The purpose of Seperation of Church and State was not to seperate God from education and government but rather to prevent the government from embracing any one particular religion as has happened historically.

Regarding Religion and Education the question was then naturally asked “whos religion”?

Religion, Morality and Knowledge was the anchor of the American Culture from 1620 to 1936. The Founders did not create rights. They re-discovered them and realized there were no devine right of kings, rights were a gift from God to all men.

Samuel Adams said -"This is the religion of America…

Ben Franklin said "These are the fundamentals of all sound religion…

Here are the 5 things that all sound religions have in common…
**
  1. There exists a creator who made all things and mankind should recognize and worship him.
  2. The creator has revealed a moral code of behavior for happy living which distinguishes right from wrong.
  3. The creator holds mankind responsible for the way they treat each other.
  4. All mankind live beyond this life.
5.In the next life individuals are judged for their conduct in this one.**

This is the uniting principles of morality that was to be taught in schools and was mandated by congress. It was not until the demise of McGuffy Readers that Religion and Morality were abandoned in our schools to be replaced by a content of trivia and amusement.

sources for more info…

The Miracle of America, by the National Center For Constitutional Studies.

For more information on how the Godless people have intentionally sought to destroy individual rights and freedom read the 45 Goals of Communism from the Communist party. These goals were put into congressional record around 1963.

Keep up the Good fight!

-Paul
Click to expand...
You’re either the resurrected Cleon Skousen or my LDS father (who’s a huge fan of said fruitcake) here to keep tabs on me.

So, is that you Dad?

ETA: OR you’re Glen Beck here under a pseudonym.
 
I haven’t read the entire thread (and am not going to), but I have a family full of people who think this way.

Think “America is Jesus’ brain child” with a pinch of Mormon American Exceptionalism.
 
wyp8riot said:
I do recognize good intentions with the vouchers. You stated that others shouldn’t pay for my religion but doesn’t supporting the voucher system contradict that? The better answer and solution isn’t to remove God from schools but to remove Godless government mandates and controls. Religious freedom should be viewed as a right not a privilege managed by the government via vouchers or other controls.
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Sorry for the long delay in my response wyp8riot,

If you do recognize the “good intentions” with the vouchers, can I ask on what basis?
My basis is they earned it. (They being the catholics who actually took the time money and effort to put schools up all over the US)
Not just in isolated confines. All over the US. If it bears repeating.
Your religion had every chance to do the same. I am sorry it did not do so. What would you like me to say about that? I can’t support that, nor would you expect me to.
I don’t call for removing the Christian God from schools, but I do object to their having to be drawn away from basic acedemics to learn the MYRIADS of religons out there paid by MY DOLLAR.
I don’t mind giving the catholics a break because if they all suddenly boycotted public schools, our economy would not bear it. I know Mormons also have a strong belief in life as catholics do, and if you both boycotted-
Who knows what you could accomplish working together as you have with abortion.
Think about that.

Your forces together could literally rock the US to it’s very knees.
 
wyp8riot said:
For more information on how the Godless people have intentionally sought to destroy individual rights and freedom read the 45 Goals of Communism from the Communist party. These goals were put into congressional record around 1963.

Keep up the Good fight!

-Paul
Click to expand...
This is one of the more blatant examples of religious paranoia I’ve seen in a while :confused:

You’re not doing religion any favors.
 
yankee_doodle said:
This is one of the more blatant examples of religious paranoia I’ve seen in a while :confused:

You’re not doing religion any favors.
Click to expand...
Apparently nobody has told Paul yet that there is no oversight as to what is included in the Congressional Record and the veracity of the claims made in the individual articles submitted.

Pointing out that something is in the Congressional Record is about as useful as pointing out something in the Library of Congress.

Somebody wrote it! It must be true!!!

Paul: Are you a Glen Beck fan? Serious question.

ETA: I haven’t done any extensive research into the origin of these alleged “45 Goals of Communism”, but from the bit I have done, all signs point back to none other than Cleon Skousen. Please Paul, can you tell us how it is that Mr. Skousen got his hands on these alleged goals? How is it that he’s privy to this information and seemingly no one else?
 
wyp8riot said:
BLUE.

As for the 5 principles that is a good question, not that I am avoiding but that it is a deeper discussion that is related to the History of Our Nations religious heritage. These answers were already answered in part but unfortunately many of us are clueless to the answers in or own history.

Do you disagree with teaching the 5 universal principles? Because I dont thinkl you have answered that yet?
Click to expand...
wyp8riot:
  1. There exists a creator who made all things and mankind should recognize and worship him.
  2. The creator has revealed a moral code of behavior for happy living which distinguishes right from wrong.
  3. The creator holds mankind responsible for the way they treat each other.
  4. All mankind live beyond this life.
  5. In the next life individuals are judged for their conduct in this one.
I agree that the principles are true, in view of my own interpretation of these 5 principles.

However, I don’t think these 5 principles should be taught in school as a “religion of America.” Who would interpret these?

I wouldn’t want to go by the LDS interpretation of who God is, and what he expects of us; because your beliefs contradict my beliefs. So, can you see how quickly these 5 principles become problematic?

The point is, you can’t just teach the principles, without interpretation of the principles.

Kids are going to ask questions. Questions lead to interpretation. For example, the children may ask, who is the creator?

How do the teachers answer this? Do they teach every known concept of God and Creator; or should the teachers say, “go home and ask your parents?”

Anna
 
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