Religions and outer space

[ralphinal]

Zerinus,

If you have answered this in another thread, please point me that way, as I do not want to hijack this line, but what is so strange about Purgatory to you? A link to a website is fine. I just want to see where you are coming from, not discuss it on here.

 

[zerinus]

Zerinus,

If you have answered this in another thread, please point me that way, as I do not want to hijack this line, but what is so strange about Purgatory to you? A link to a website is fine. I just want to see where you are coming from, not discuss it on here.

Purgatory isn’t so bad; limbo is worse!

zerinus

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I see your point, but a great many people believe in the possibility of life on other planets without following either humanism or the UFO nonsense. I myself had a SETI@home screensaver for a couple years.

About the emphasis on origins in scientific research, I see that as a tacit admission that they themselves find the answers they have now seriously lacking. I recently heard that they finally have a theory of the big bang where the laws of physics aren’t reduced to nonsense as you approach the begining. It was caused by the collision of two existing universes! :doh2: Guess they’re back at square one.

Oh, I agree they are chomping to discover what its all about, I often wonder if they admitted God is there and then did their research just how much more they would discover!

If belief in other civilations was based on pure exploration and adventure I can see it, in fact its too bad its not. Buts whats man do when we expand our boarders? we start out nice and end up trying to conqure. Maybe when Gods in charge we will see if He made anyone else? In the meantime say what they will the ultimate goal is to prove God wrong.

Because other than pure adventure like I said why else speculate about life on other planets? The whole bit about men on the moon etc just posted is to try to relate a “home” for God. Our trying to understand things. Thats where scifi gets it right. Ever notice aliens always present themselves in human form for us to understand? Thats what we want from God, and He accomodated that request. Just some cant believe it really could happen. Or if they accept it did happen then it changes their world so they are not ready to accept Him.

In that manner aliens are a substitute for God a real thing living in a “other” world that we could hope to touch and commune with. But dont come with the so called “rules” attatched that God has. So its easier to deal with. Aliens fullfill the need for that big brother to take care of us. Ever notice they are always advanced and even if ugly so smart and can cure everything? Who else fits that bill? (not the ugly part however

 

[Jestocost]

Oh, I agree they are chomping to discover what its all about, I often wonder if they admitted God is there and then did their research just how much more they would discover!

If belief in other civilations was based on pure exploration and adventure I can see it, in fact its too bad its not. Buts whats man do when we expand our boarders? we start out nice and end up trying to conqure. Maybe when Gods in charge we will see if He made anyone else? In the meantime say what they will the ultimate goal is to prove God wrong.

Because other than pure adventure like I said why else speculate about life on other planets? The whole bit about men on the moon etc just posted is to try to relate a “home” for God. Our trying to understand things. Thats where scifi gets it right. Ever notice aliens always present themselves in human form for us to understand? Thats what we want from God, and He accomodated that request. Just some cant believe it really could happen. Or if they accept it did happen then it changes their world so they are not ready to accept Him.

In that manner aliens are a substitute for God a real thing living in a “other” world that we could hope to touch and commune with. But dont come with the so called “rules” attatched that God has. So its easier to deal with. Aliens fullfill the need for that big brother to take care of us. Ever notice they are always advanced and even if ugly so smart and can cure everything? Who else fits that bill? (not the ugly part however

I must have read a good bit more science fiction than you. There certainly are some “gods from space” type stories, but I’ve seen a lot where aliens were evil, indifferent, primitive, pretty, stupid, or bad at medicine. I agree though that many are looking for exactly what they reject in Christ. Sad really.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I must have read a good bit more science fiction than you. There certainly are some “gods from space” type stories, but I’ve seen a lot where aliens were evil, indifferent, primitive, pretty, stupid, or bad at medicine. I agree though that many are looking for exactly what they reject in Christ. Sad really.

Well…Im a huge sci fi fan, was one of those who seen Star Wars over 30x in the theatre. so the nerdness is shared but when one has no spiritual direction the nerdness goes elsewhere if you get my drift.

There may be gods from space but one doesnt really need gods just superior aliens really. Sides there is no god anyway in that mindset. And those who are evil are generally a product of Hollywood anyway or well not all superior life forces are nice, right? Gotta have something to battle.

Its actually really nice to be free, you really cant imagine, or maybe you can.

Praise to God for the clarity only He can supply.

 

[ralphinal]

Purgatory isn’t so bad; limbo is worse!

zerinus

Thanks. I can actually see where you are coming from on that.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

^ Zerinus, did Joseph Smith really say there were men in the moon?

Here is the documentation, and you can read the statements in context in the gif’s at the end.

The Mormons claimed that Joseph Smith’s power as a “seer” extended even beyond the earth. In February 1881 Oliver B. Huntington recorded the following in his journal:

Inhabitants of the Moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the Earth, being about 6 feet in height. They dress very much like the quaker Style & are quite general in Style, or the one fashion of dress. They live to be very old; comeing [sic] generally, near a thousand years.

A photograph of two pages from the Young Woman's Journal, vol. 3. This was published by the Young Ladies' Mutual Improvement Associations of Zion in 1892. Notice that O. B. Huntington claimed that Joseph Smith taught the moon was inhabited.

This is the description of them as given by Joseph the Seer, and he could “See” whatever he asked the Father in the name of Jesus to see (“Journal of Oliver B. Huntington,” book 14, original at Huntington Library, San Marino, Calif.; also vol.3, p.166 of typed copy at Utah State Historical Society).

For many years after Joseph Smith's death the Mormons continued to teach that the moon was inhabited. On July 24, 1870, Brigham Young, the second president of the Mormon church, stated: "Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?... when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain" (Journal of Discourses, vol.13, p.271).

[Photo of Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, pages 270-271]

As late as 1892 the teaching that the moon was inhabited appeared in a church publication. In an article published in the Young Woman's Journal, O. B. Huntington stated:

Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.

As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do, that they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years.

He described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.

In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and—to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes (The Young Woman’s Journal, published by the Young Ladies’ Mutual Improvement Associations of Zion, 1892, vol.3, pp.263-64).

While very few Mormons today would try to defend Joseph Smith's ideas about the "inhabitants of the moon," the church still teaches that the Book of Mormon is Scripture, that Adam's altar is in Missouri, and that the Book of Abraham was translated from the Egyptian papyrus.

Although Joseph Smith lived to be only 38 years old, the Mormon leaders claim that he had numerous visits from "glorious personages" from heaven. Not only was he visited by God

utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech1.htm



utlm.org/images/changingworld/supplementalphotos/jofd_july24_1870_p270_271mooninhabited.gif



utlm.org/images/changingworld/chwp24textimage.gif

utlm.org/onlinebooks/mclaims5.htm

googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/utlm?q=men+moon

 

[MHalsey]

The difference is that these are not LDS doctrine and never have been; whereas Purgatory and Limbo have been Catholic doctrine and still are!

zerinus

Actually, that’s incorrect. While Purgatory is an official teaching, Limbo is not. Nor has it ever been.

 

[PaulDupre]

The difference is that these are not LDS doctrine and never have been; whereas Purgatory and Limbo have been Catholic doctrine and still are!

zerinus

Mormons believe in purgatory - you just call it “spirit prison”.

Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

Purgatory isn’t so bad; limbo is worse!

zerinus

The bible teaches limbo - the bible calls it “the bosom of Abraham”.

The limbo of the fathers (the bosom of Abraham) where the dead waited for Christ to open the way to heaven, is part of Catholic doctrine.

The speculation that unbaptised infants may go to a similar kind of “limbo” has never been Catholic doctrine. Most people confuse the two ideas.

Paul

 

[MHalsey]

The bible teaches limbo - the bible calls it “the bosom of Abraham”.

Paul

You’re of course speaking of the place the righteous of the Old Testament went after death while awaiting the Resurrection of The Lord. However, when anyone equates Limbo with Purgatory, or uses them synonymously, they display a lack of understanding for either.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Oh, I agree they are chomping to discover what its all about, I often wonder if they admitted God is there and then did their research just how much more they would discover!

If belief in other civilations was based on pure exploration and adventure I can see it, in fact its too bad its not. Buts whats man do when we expand our boarders? we start out nice and end up trying to conqure. Maybe when Gods in charge we will see if He made anyone else? In the meantime say what they will the ultimate goal is to prove God wrong.

Because other than pure adventure like I said why else speculate about life on other planets? The whole bit about men on the moon etc just posted is to try to relate a “home” for God. Our trying to understand things. Thats where scifi gets it right. Ever notice aliens always present themselves in human form for us to understand? Thats what we want from God, and He accomodated that request. Just some cant believe it really could happen. Or if they accept it did happen then it changes their world so they are not ready to accept Him.

In that manner aliens are a substitute for God a real thing living in a “other” world that we could hope to touch and commune with. But dont come with the so called “rules” attatched that God has. So its easier to deal with. Aliens fullfill the need for that big brother to take care of us. Ever notice they are always advanced and even if ugly so smart and can cure everything? Who else fits that bill? (not the ugly part however

My favorite Twilight Zone show was called “To Serve Man”

A race of aliens known as the Kanamits land on Earth and promise to be nothing but helpful to the cause of humanity. Initially wary of the intentions of such a highly advanced race, even the most skeptical humans are convinced when their code-breakers begin to translate one of the Kanamit’s books, with the seemingly innocuous title, “To Serve Man.” Sharing their advanced technology, the aliens quickly solve all of Earth’s greatest woes, eradicating hunger, disease, and the need for warfare. Soon, humans are volunteering for trips to the Kanamits’ home planet, which is supposedly a paradise. All is not well, however, when a code-breaker discovers the Kanamits’ true intentions. Their book, “To Serve Man”, is a cookbook.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone

If you think about it, if an advanced species placed man on earth, then it makes sense that mankind was planted as a fulture food source for them.

 

[PaulDupre]

MHalsey:

You’re of course speaking of the place the righteous of the Old Testament went after death while awaiting the Resurrection of The Lord. However, when anyone equates Limbo with Purgatory, or uses them synonymously, they display a lack of understanding for either.

Correct, sir!

Paul

 

[zerinus]

The bible teaches limbo - the bible calls it “the bosom of Abraham”.

The limbo of the fathers (the bosom of Abraham) where the dead waited for Christ to open the way to heaven, is part of Catholic doctrine.

The speculation that unbaptised infants may go to a similar kind of “limbo” has never been Catholic doctrine. Most people confuse the two ideas.

Paul

“Limbo” literally means a state of suspense. It is a state in which your fate is not yet decided. If you are on death row, and are scheduled to be executed at some point, but there is still a chance that the law might change or you might obtain a reprieve, then you are in “limbo;” you don’t know what will ultimately happen to you. Not a very pleasant situation to be in.

zerinus

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

google.com/search?hl=en&q=MANS+golden+force

global.org/Pub/HOOM_Golden_Force.asp

Star Wars rememinds me of Holy Order of Mans, golden force.

 

[MHalsey]

“Limbo” literally means a state of suspense. It is a state in which your fate is not yet decided. If you are on death row, and are scheduled to be executed at some point, but there is still a chance that the law might change or you might obtain a reprieve, then you are in “limbo;” you don’t know what will ultimately happen to you. Not a very pleasant situation to be in.

zerinus

OK, so you’re trying to say death row is a Catholic doctrine?

 

[PaulDupre]

“Limbo” literally means a state of suspense. It is a state in which your fate is not yet decided. If you are on death row, and are scheduled to be executed at some point, but there is still a chance that the law might change or you might obtain a reprieve, then you are in “limbo;” you don’t know what will ultimately happen to you. Not a very pleasant situation to be in.

zerinus

You are using the secular meaning of the word.

Here are the theological definitions:

In Roman Catholicism, there are two categories of limbo. The Limbo of the Fathers was where the souls of ancient righteous people went before Jesus Christ made it possible for them to enter Heaven. …
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo

In Roman Catholicism, the speculative place of unbaptized but innocent or righteous souls (such as infants and virtuous individuals)
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Paul

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The bible teaches limbo - the bible calls it “the bosom of Abraham”.

The limbo of the fathers (the bosom of Abraham) where the dead waited for Christ to open the way to heaven, is part of Catholic doctrine.

The speculation that unbaptised infants may go to a similar kind of “limbo” has never been Catholic doctrine. Most people confuse the two ideas.

Paul

Boy are you off the mark, the babies are delivered to care taking angels to go to heaven, Abrahams’ Bosom ceased to exist when Jesus led its captives to heaven ( Eph 4 ).

1. Clemens Alexandrinus, Eclog. 48. For instance, Peter in the Apocalypse says that the children who are born out of due time shall be of the better part: and that these are delivered over to a care-taking angel that they may attain a share of knowledge and gain the better abode [after suffering what they would have suffered if they had been in the body: but the others shall merely obtain salvation as injured beings to whom mercy is shown, and remain without punishment, receiving this as a reward].

1. Clem. Alex. Eclog. 49. But the milk of the women running down from their breasts and congealing shall engender small flesh eating beasts: and these run up upon them and devour them.

1. Macarius Magnes, Apocritica iv., 6 cf. 16. The earth, it (sc. the Apoc. of Peter) says, “shall present all men before God at the day of judgment, being itself also to be judged, with the heaven also which encompasses it.”

1. Clem. Alex. Eclog. 41. The scripture says that infants that have been exposed are delivered to a care-taking angel, by whom they are educated and so grow up, and they will be, it says, as the faithful of a hundred years old are here.

1. Methodius, Conviv. ii., 6. Whence also we have received in divinely-inspired scriptures that untimely births are delivered to care-taking angels, even if they are the offspring of adultery.

allsaintssanfran.org/Twelve%20Apostles/Peter/revelation_of_peter.htm

incommunion.org/articles/older-issues/abortion-and-the-early-church

thomasephillips.info/apocalypseofpeter.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&q=early+church+abortion+delivered+to+care+taking+angels

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Correct, sir!

Paul

Maybe a definition of Limbo and Purgatory is in order, since I for one do not know the difference.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

“Limbo” literally means a state of suspense. It is a state in which your fate is not yet decided. If you are on death row, and are scheduled to be executed at some point, but there is still a chance that the law might change or you might obtain a reprieve, then you are in “limbo;” you don’t know what will ultimately happen to you. Not a very pleasant situation to be in.

zerinus

Since the babies are delivered to “care-taking angels” they are NOT in a state of suspense.