Religions and Wars

[St_Gabriel]

Hello all.

I have come here to ask for some advice from you wonderful apologists! I was talking with a young lady who is baptised and confirmed catholic who told me that religion is the cause of wars and that’s why she doesn’t go to church and practice her faith. I think that the real problem is that her parents didn’t help her in the formation of her faith (they never took her to church). She’s only 19 and she says that she doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Can some of you wonderful people give me some info on how I can help her back on the right track?

 

[chris_molter]

This is a very common attack on religion in general, although more often than not, it’s used to attack Christianity.

The solution is easy: education. Ask her to name the wars caused by religion. There HAVE been wars where religion played a major role (Crusades, Jewish Revolts against Rome, Islamic Wars of Expansion, European Wars of Religion, etc), however, even in those wars, there were other factors in play such as resources or cultural/tribal conflicts.

More recently, in the 20th century, I think we can point to very few wars where religion played even a small part (Iran-Iraq, Vietnam).

By and large, wars are caused by a number of complex factors. Religion can be one of those factors, but much less often than anti-theists claim.

 

[Bookcat]

especially that big battle between the Quakers and the Amish!

---

hummmm and lets see…who caused SO many deaths in the 20th Century??? with and without wars…how about atheistic Communism…

 

[Spencerian]

Hello all.

I have come here to ask for some advice from you wonderful apologists! I was talking with a young lady who is baptised and confirmed catholic who told me that religion is the cause of wars and that’s why she doesn’t go to church and practice her faith. I think that the real problem is that her parents didn’t help her in the formation of her faith (they never took her to church). She’s only 19 and she says that she doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Can some of you wonderful people give me some info on how I can help her back on the right track?

Hi.

The young lady is throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Practicing one’s faith, after discernment, is an *individual *matter. You can show her the Catholic Church’s view on “just war” to support that the Church believes that war is only a final option between parties.

Most wars have been started on political, humanitarian or territorial grounds. In all cases, priests were there to bless the troops as they marched off to war. Priests were there to bless and bury the dead. **Association of a religion’s clergy or its followers as people and governments went to war does not necessarily follow the absolute conclusion that a religion started the war.

The young lady should be far less concerned about a worldly issue (war) and more concerned on how faith is necessary for *her *on a very personal level. God does not call *her *to go to war (except against her personal sins), so the existential nature of who-did-what-and-when in some past war is irrelevant.

Regardless of her personal opinion, she should consider whether God would agree with her, according to Church teaching. She would be wrong; God Himself has ordered some people to fight for what is right and for the right reasons, according to several passages of Scripture.

God has also told us when *not *to fight, through Christ.

Try to bring her back to what the Catholic Church does *now *and what is more important to her than reciting history as a personal excuse not to choose a faith.

 

[andyandely1997]

Our sinful human nature along with pride are the cause of wars. And since sin & pride will be with us until the return of Christ, so will wars. “And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places: Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.” (Matthew 24:6-8)

 

[JRKH]

Hello all.

I have come here to ask for some advice from you wonderful apologists! I was talking with a young lady who is baptised and confirmed catholic who told me that religion is the cause of wars and that’s why she doesn’t go to church and practice her faith. I think that the real problem is that her parents didn’t help her in the formation of her faith (they never took her to church). She’s only 19 and she says that she doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Can some of you wonderful people give me some info on how I can help her back on the right track?

I would suggest that, since she does not want to talk about “religion”, that you engage her on “History”. Start looking at the wars and see what they were “fought over” I think you (and she) will find that religion had little to do with them, beyond an exuse perhaps.

The two biggest wars in the last century were fought over nationalistic issues and land. Not religion.

Peace
James

 

[Drawmack]

Hello all.

I have come here to ask for some advice from you wonderful apologists! I was talking with a young lady who is baptised and confirmed catholic who told me that religion is the cause of wars and that’s why she doesn’t go to church and practice her faith. I think that the real problem is that her parents didn’t help her in the formation of her faith (they never took her to church). She’s only 19 and she says that she doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Can some of you wonderful people give me some info on how I can help her back on the right track?

If someone does not want to talk about religion then stop talking about religion with them – you forcing the issue will only push them away. Seriously, have you ever been around someone who insists on talking about something you don’t want to talk about? Would you consider that loving your neighbor?

I would say if she doesn’t want to talk about religion it is time to live the words of St. Francis “Preach the Gospel always; use words when you have to.”

 

[Drawmack]

I would suggest that, since she does not want to talk about “religion”, that you engage her on “History”. Start looking at the wars and see what they were “fought over” I think you (and she) will find that religion had little to do with them, beyond an exuse perhaps.

The two biggest wars in the last century were fought over nationalistic issues and land. Not religion.

Peace
James

Not to be cantankerous but I believe the argument can be made that WWII was partially on religious grounds – it was to protect the world from Nazism which when looked at the way the Nazi’s looked at most certainly is a religion.

 

[sinnerdexter]

Hello all.

I have come here to ask for some advice from you wonderful apologists! I was talking with a young lady who is baptised and confirmed catholic who told me that religion is the cause of wars and that’s why she doesn’t go to church and practice her faith. I think that the real problem is that her parents didn’t help her in the formation of her faith (they never took her to church). She’s only 19 and she says that she doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Can some of you wonderful people give me some info on how I can help her back on the right track?

Let her realize that God’s blessings are as abundant as the air around her. All she has to do is breathe them in. Everything she need is out there. Love, wisdom, opportunities, money, etc. Start there.

 

[JRKH]

Not to be cantankerous but I believe the argument can be made that WWII was partially on religious grounds – it was to protect the world from Nazism which when looked at the way the Nazi’s looked at most certainly is a religion.

I don’t want to be cantakerous either, but ----
Frankly, I’m have to say that WWII was not fought to protect the world from Nazism.
WWII two was fought, in Europe, in response to Germany’s military agression against Poland in 1939. In the Pacific it was fought due to Japan’s military agression against China, which began in 1937. In both of these cases the wars were started on the grounds of “needing more land” and not on religious grounds.
Hitler’s big goal in starting the war was twofold. First to defeat France for the humiliation of the Versailles Treaty and Second to destroy communist Russia, which is where he saw the “leibenstraum”, the room for German expansion.
The Japanese had a similar problem. Their population was constrained by their living space. They saw China as “easy pickings” and with lots of room for expansion. They also felt they were belittled and insulted by the Western powers in various treaties and concords. They wished to expand their empire and gain greater respect.

The Allied response to these, in both cases, was to protect the allied nations from being overrun, and to restore those nations that had been overrun. Ideological aspects in these were used primarily as rallying cries, but Ideologies were most definitely NOT the reasons for the allied resistance to the agression.

Yes I agree that many Nazi’s had a fanatical view of Hitler and made him a demigod, but no one on the outside viewed it in this way.
WWII was fought, from the beginning, as a primarily nationalistic and not ideological war.
Ideologies played a part to be sure, but if Germany had remained inside her borders, no one would have gone after the Nazi’s (Facsists)
Look at the three fascist regimes in Europe.
Germany - Agressor - defeated
Italy - Agressor - defeated
Spain - Not Agressor - Not defeated

Now I don’t want to “hijack” the thread, so just to tie this all back inot the original topic, if one wishes to look for a “religious” reason for a war they will probably find “God” mentioned in there somewhere. After all, it seems that God is on “everybody’s” side in a war. However, if one really looks at what caused this or that group to take up arms against another, you will likely find more clear, selfich and immediate reasons than religion.

Peace
James

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Not to be cantankerous but I believe the argument can be made that WWII was partially on religious grounds – it was to protect the world from Nazism which when looked at the way the Nazi’s looked at most certainly is a religion.

Nazism was a political ideology, not a religion in the sense that it purported to point the way to God. Bolshevik Marxism was the same.

In World War II, we had the atheist Soviet Union alllied with Protestant USA and Anglican Britain, lined up against Lutheran Germany, Catholic Italy and Shinto Japan. Other major players were Confucian China and Hindu India, with Buddhist SE Asia and Moslem North Africa and Indonesia being areas where major battles were fought. Meanwhile the Judaic Jews were murdered by the million in concentration camps, with the atheistic Soviets killing millions in Gulags both before and after the war.

Which particular religion caused all that?

 

[JRKH]

Nazism was a political ideology, not a religion in the sense that it purported to point the way to God. Bolshevik Marxism was the same.

In World War II, we had the atheist Soviet Union alllied with Protestant USA and Anglican Britain, lined up against Lutheran Germany, Catholic Italy and Shinto Japan. Other major players were Confucian China and Hindu India, with Buddhist SE Asia and Moslem North Africa and Indonesia being areas where major battles were fought. Meanwhile the Judaic Jews were murdered by the million in concentration camps, with the atheistic Soviets killing millions in Gulags both before and after the war.

Which particular religion caused all that?

Nicely Put !!

 

[St_Gabriel]

Thankyou for all the responses! I’m going to read them over and see what can help me.

 

[St_Gabriel]

This is a very common attack on religion in general, although more often than not, it’s used to attack Christianity.

The solution is easy: education. Ask her to name the wars caused by religion. There HAVE been wars where religion played a major role (Crusades, Jewish Revolts against Rome, Islamic Wars of Expansion, European Wars of Religion, etc), however, even in those wars, there were other factors in play such as resources or cultural/tribal conflicts.

More recently, in the 20th century, I think we can point to very few wars where religion played even a small part (Iran-Iraq, Vietnam).

By and large, wars are caused by a number of complex factors. Religion can be one of those factors, but much less often than anti-theists claim.

Yes. I did that. I asked her to name a war that was caused by religion. She shut down after that and didn’t say anymore. She said that she was ok with some people who are religious but it’s not for her.

 

[St_Gabriel]

Hi.

The young lady should be far less concerned about a worldly issue (war) and more concerned on how faith is necessary for *her *on a very personal level. God does not call *her *to go to war (except against her personal sins), so the existential nature of who-did-what-and-when in some past war is irrelevant.

This is a very good point. I’m going to try it.

 

[St_Gabriel]

Our sinful human nature along with pride are the cause of wars. And since sin & pride will be with us until the return of Christ, so will wars. “And you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled. For these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be pestilences, and famines, and earthquakes in places: Now all these are the beginnings of sorrows.” (Matthew 24:6-8)

I agree. I said to her, as long as people don’t have love for one another as Jesus taught, we are going to continue to have wars.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hello all.

I She’s only 19 and she says that she doesn’t want to talk about religion.

Can some of you wonderful people give me some info on how I can help her back on the right track?

if she is only 19 she can perhaps be forgiven for being ignorant of world history and the politics of war. if she does not want to talk religion is she willing to talk history, and truly investigate how war has arisen through the actions of politicians and temporal leaders who co-opt religion and use it to further their own ends?

 

[St_Gabriel]

I would suggest that, since she does not want to talk about “religion”, that you engage her on “History”. Start looking at the wars and see what they were “fought over” I think you (and she) will find that religion had little to do with them, beyond an exuse perhaps.

The two biggest wars in the last century were fought over nationalistic issues and land. Not religion.

Peace
James

Yes. I need to do some research on wars. I told her that she should do some research on the wars and she would find out that they were not caused by religion but politically driven.

 

[St_Gabriel]

If someone does not want to talk about religion then stop talking about religion with them – you forcing the issue will only push them away. Seriously, have you ever been around someone who insists on talking about something you don’t want to talk about? Would you consider that loving your neighbor?

I would say if she doesn’t want to talk about religion it is time to live the words of St. Francis “Preach the Gospel always; use words when you have to.”

I know what you are saying. However, in this case, the girl is my God-daughter. I can’t sit by and say nothing. I think that is what her parents have done (say nothing and do nothing) and that is why she is where she is.

 

[St_Gabriel]

Let her realize that God’s blessings are as abundant as the air around her. All she has to do is breathe them in. Everything she need is out there. Love, wisdom, opportunities, money, etc. Start there.

Hi sinnerdexter
You are so hopeful like me. I really like that. Unfortunately, she has had nothing but big disappointments in her life especially from the ones she love. I’m praying that something good will happen for her.