Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice

[bearer]

I was googling something and came across this group’s web site by chance. It made me sick reading their apologies for abortion, especially this section of their list of “national organizations from major faiths and traditions and religiously affiliated and independent religious organizations” linked on their mission statement page:

Catholics for Choice, 1999

There is much in the Catholic tradition that supports the
pro-choice position. There is a mistaken belief that the
Catholic Church has spoken definitively and unchangingly
on abortion. However, a careful reading of church
documents shows that while the prohibition of abortion is a
serious teaching, room remains for Catholics to support the
legalization of abortion and even its morality in a wide
range of circumstances. And an examination of core
principles of Catholic theology reveals a tradition that
respects the capacity of individuals to make moral
decisions.

I’m really having a difficult time containing my anger and disgust. These people are promoting heresy and distorting the dogma of the Church. They even get funding from the Combined Federal Campaign.

I understand that the USCCB has spoken against them and stated that they are not a true Catholic organization. I have much more reading ahead of me, but in the mean time, does anyone know if there is or has been any campaigns to strip their funding from public and tax-exempt sources?

 

[Blacksword]

That’s quite a distortion of modern moral theology as taught in my RCIA class, that’s for sure!

 

[GlendaTheGood]

Catholics for Choice are just that: they are people who are either cradle Catholics (who will be Catholics no matter how they try to divorce themselves from Catholicism) and they are converts, who embrace all tenets of the Church with at least the exception of the Church’s teaching on choice or, as “seasoned” Catholics call it, “abortion”.

True Catholics, those who never stray from the teachings and whose sins are mostly venial at their worst, would consider these folks to be Cafeteria-style Catholics, picking and choosing the teachings of Catholicism that they choose to live with.

Why does this make you angry and disgusted? You cannot live their lives for them. They are free to decide what they believe, individually and collectively. As are you. This should have no influence on your life. You do not subscribe to their mission. Put them out of your mind. Serenity is hard to come by; inviting something like this into your head and allowing it to manipulate your emotions is senseless and a squandering of time and energy.

 

[Dale_M]

I’m really having a difficult time containing my anger and disgust. These people are promoting heresy and distorting the dogma of the Church. They even get funding from the Combined Federal Campaign.

Are you referring to the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, or are you referring to Catholics for Choice?

Both organizations have been around for decades. That the US federal government provides matching funds for employee paycheck deductions isn’t unusual. The Combined Federal Campaign funds a wide variety of non-profit organizations, some with a political bent.

 

[bearer]

Why does this make you angry and disgusted? You cannot live their lives for them. They are free to decide what they believe, individually and collectively. As are you. This should have no influence on your life. You do not subscribe to their mission. Put them out of your mind. Serenity is hard to come by; inviting something like this into your head and allowing it to manipulate your emotions is senseless and a squandering of time and energy.

I find heresy exceptionally offensive. I can be pretty passionate, and so I’m often having to consciously choose forgiveness over anger in siuations like this.

If they want to sin that’s their business, but when they apologize for others’ sins, and in fact enable or encourage the commission of these sins, it really hits me in the gut, so to speak.

Murder is murder. I want to save the unborn. That is never a waste of time and energy, no matter how fruitless it can seem in today’s political climate.

 

[bearer]

Are you referring to the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, or are you referring to Catholics for Choice?

Both organizations have been around for decades. That the US federal government provides matching funds for employee paycheck deductions isn’t unusual. The Combined Federal Campaign funds a wide variety of non-profit organizations, some with a political bent.

Both. I work in DC, so this isn’t anything new. I just hadn’t heard of these groups before, or read the garbage they promote.

 

[GlendaTheGood]

I find heresy exceptionally offensive. I can be pretty passionate, and so I’m often having to consciously choose forgiveness over anger in siuations like this.

If they want to sin that’s their business, but when they apologize for others’ sins, and in fact enable or encourage the commission of these sins, it really hits me in the gut, so to speak.

Murder is murder. I want to save the unborn. That is never a waste of time and energy, no matter how fruitless it can seem in today’s political climate.

May I ask you to describe your efforts to save the unborn?

 

[Corki]

Why does this make you angry and disgusted? You cannot live their lives for them. They are free to decide what they believe, individually and collectively. As are you. This should have no influence on your life. You do not subscribe to their mission. Put them out of your mind. Serenity is hard to come by; inviting something like this into your head and allowing it to manipulate your emotions is senseless and a squandering of time and energy.

It *should *make us angry when organizations use “Catholic” in their name and then distort Catholic teaching or just flat out lie about what the Church teaches.

It should make us angry when organizations like this have the potential to lead other Catholics into error.

This should have no influence on your life.

Wrong. As Catholics we are called to practice the Works of Mercy, two of which are to “Admonish the sinner” and “Instruct the ignorant”. Both apply to these organizations and our reaction to them and the people they try to influence.

 

[bearer]

May I ask you to describe your efforts to save the unborn?

Sure; prayer, support of the Church (my parish has some really great social ministries), support of pro-life legislators, presidents and candidates, discussions with others about the value and sanctity of life. These are the kinds of things many of us can do.

 

[Dale_M]

Both. I work in DC, so this isn’t anything new. I just hadn’t heard of these groups before, or read the garbage they promote.

Oh, okay. I don’t think I had heard of them either, until I became a member of CAF. As far as I can tell, the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice is an extremely low-key organization. I have to wonder how much influence they have on policy or life decisions.

Catholics for Choice seems to have a much lower media profile since 2007, when Frances Kissling stepped down as president.

 

[GlendaTheGood]

Sure; prayer, support of the Church (my parish has some really great social ministries), support of pro-life legislators, presidents and candidates, discussions with others about the value and sanctity of life. These are the kinds of things many of us can do.

What kind of support, if you don’t mind? And aside from bringing blood to a boiling point, what “benefit” can be found in discussions? I always think of “support” as getting one’s hands dirty. Have you made a trip to the trenches lately?

I certainly do not diminish the value of prayer, voting, and dialogue. But for someone who sounds as enraged as you appear onscreen, I was wondering if there might not be something more tangible in your toolbox.

 

[Corki]

What kind of support, if you don’t mind? And aside from bringing blood to a boiling point, what “benefit” can be found in discussions? I always think of “support” as getting one’s hands dirty. Have you made a trip to the trenches lately?

I certainly do not diminish the value of prayer, voting, and dialogue. But for someone who sounds as enraged as you appear onscreen, I was wondering if there might not be something more tangible in your toolbox.

I am not sure what you are digging for. By “getting one’s hands dirty” are you trying to get someone to admit to bombing an abortion facility or some other physical intervention?

OTOH, in my experience, the people who lead the discussions that you seem to minimize are the same people who staff the Gabriel Project hotlines, volunteer at the pregnancy centers, stand in the rain and pray at 40 Days for Life, organize baby showers for new mothers, etc., etc., etc…

Now, what exactly have YOU done to save the unborn lately?

 

[GlendaTheGood]

Originally Posted by GlendaTheGood:

Why does this make you angry and disgusted? You cannot live their lives for them. They are free to decide what they believe, individually and collectively. As are you. This should have no influence on your life. You do not subscribe to their mission. Put them out of your mind. Serenity is hard to come by; inviting something like this into your head and allowing it to manipulate your emotions is senseless and a squandering of time and energy.

Wrong. As Catholics we are called to practice the Works of Mercy, two of which are to “Admonish the sinner” and “Instruct the ignorant”. Both apply to these organizations and our reaction to them and the people they try to influence.

“Admonish” means to warn or reprimand. This implies judgment of another’s actions and, as a subtext, judgment of their beliefs, their character, their morals. I believe only God can judge what is in someone’s mind, heart, soul and intentions. “Ignorant” means lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something. In this case that would be the teachings of the Catholic Church, yes, and perhaps even of other religions, vis a vis the sanctity of life. How do you propose the Vatican deal with the “misinformation” which these renegade organizations are dispensing under the Catholic umbrella? Do you believe that the scope of excommunication should be widened to include others who do not share your precise point of view?

Are you not trying to influence people as well? Are you not also sharing an alternative viewpoint and standing tall for it? What’s the difference? I shall answer for you this rhetorical question. There is no difference.

 

[bearer]

What kind of support, if you don’t mind? And aside from bringing blood to a boiling point, what “benefit” can be found in discussions? I always think of “support” as getting one’s hands dirty. Have you made a trip to the trenches lately?

I certainly do not diminish the value of prayer, voting, and dialogue. But for someone who sounds as enraged as you appear onscreen, I was wondering if there might not be something more tangible in your toolbox.

With all due respect, you may ask, but I will not answer. I find your posts here rather pointless, particularly in regard to my original post.

Having a meaningful discussion is the last thing that makes my blood boil. Educating and motivating voting constituents about the pro-life message not only brings glory to God and potentially opens their minds, but it gets results at the polls and at the bank. It doesn’t get more tangible than that.

When it comes to abortion, the trenches are all around you, and finding new recruits is half the battle.

 

[Corki]

“Admonish” means to warn or reprimand. This implies judgment of another’s actions and, as a subtext, judgment of their beliefs, their character, their morals. I believe only God can judge what is in someone’s mind, heart, soul and intentions.

You are half right. Admonish is to correct and to urge the person to change his/her ways. It is surely for God to judge the final disposition of all of our souls. But we are not only able to but required to give correction and guidance based on the wrong actions of others. I would never pass judgement on someone’s character but morals are reflected in action and some beliefs are just wrong.

Ignorant" means lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something. In this case that would be the teachings of the Catholic Church, yes, and perhaps even of other religions, vis a vis the sanctity of life.

In the context of this thread, that’s exactly right. The article linked in the OP gave erroneous and misleading information about Church teaching. It is a work of mercy to point out the mistake and correct it.

How do you propose the Vatican deal with the “misinformation” which these renegade organizations are dispensing under the Catholic umbrella? Do you believe that the scope of excommunication should be widened to include others who do not share your precise point of view?

Well, at least one of the groups in the OP has already incurred excommunication. I’m not sure what widening is required. Any person who materially cooperates with abortion, such as the people involved with CFFC, is already excommunicated.

Are you not trying to influence people as well? Are you not also sharing an alternative viewpoint and standing tall for it? What’s the difference? I shall answer for you this rhetorical question. There is no difference.

I am absolutely trying to influence people. I am not sharing an alternative viewpoint, however. I am reiterating the teaching of the Church - it’s not alternative at all. The difference is that defending life is consistent with Catholic teaching. The work of CFFC and RCRC is not. That’s the differerence. And when you are speaking to a Catholic audience, that’s a big difference.

 

[GlendaTheGood]

I am not sure what you are digging for. By “getting one’s hands dirty” are you trying to get someone to admit to bombing an abortion facility or some other physical intervention?

OTOH, in my experience, the people who lead the discussions that you seem to minimize are the same people who staff the Gabriel Project hotlines, volunteer at the pregnancy centers, stand in the rain and pray at 40 Days for Life, organize baby showers for new mothers, etc., etc., etc…

Now, what exactly have YOU done to save the unborn lately?

By “getting one’s hands dirty”, I mean working one-on-one with pregnant teens, financially supporting an unwed mother (if enough income were available) through pregnancy and birth, attempting to counsel a woman who has just learned she has an anencephalic child about to join her family, giving complete sex education instruction to pre-teens (and not just abstinence-oriented instruction), and so on.

"OTOH, in my experience, the people who lead the discussions* that you seem to minimize …"***
“I certainly do not diminish the value of prayer, voting, and dialogue.” 'Nuff said.

I do not feel I’ve been called upon to save the unborn. I’m not compelled to persuade or dissuade any woman in the case of unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

 

[Corki]

I do not feel I’ve been called upon to save the unborn. I’m not compelled to persuade or dissuade any woman in the case of unplanned or unwanted pregnancy.

Then why do you feel you should challenge others on whether they are getting their hands dirty, or working in a tangible enough way? No matter how little any of us does at any time, it’s more than you are doing, right?

BTW, all the other stuff you mentioned, either myself or someone in my immediate group of pro-life workers has done all of them. Hands dirty enough?

 

[GlendaTheGood]

“Well, at least one of the groups in the OP has already incurred excommunication. I’m not sure what widening is required. Any person who materially cooperates with abortion, such as the people involved with CFFC, is already excommunicated.”

Please share with the readers here where in Church doctrine it specifically states that “any person who materially cooperates with abortion … is already excommunicated.” I have read elsewhere within this forum that this is not the case.

“I am reiterating the teaching of the Church - it’s not alternative at all.”

It is alternative to many atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Jews, and others. Or don’t they count in the grand scheme of things?

 

[GlendaTheGood]

Then why do you feel you should challenge others on whether they are getting their hands dirty, or working in a tangible enough way? Because talk is cheap. No matter how little any of us does at any time, it’s more than you are doing, right? It is certainly more than I am doing to invalidate any given pregnant woman’s right to determine her own course of action according to what her own beliefs are, yes.

BTW, all the other stuff you mentioned, either myself or someone in my immediate group of pro-life workers has done all of them. Hands dirty enough? Not talking about your pals. Interested solely in your personal experience…

 

[Corki]

GlendaTheGood:
Can’t really reply to the embedded comments. I think there’s a tutorial for using the quote feature.

Talk can be cheap but it isn’t always. If talk means that a young woman is convinced not to kill her unborn child, it’s priceless. If talk results in legislation ensuring that women cannot legally be lied to by abortion clinics, that’s quite valuable too. If talk teaches our children to respect all life and not just their own, that’s a big win.

Sorry you don’t care about my “pals”. We have been able to achieve so much more by working as a group than any of us could individually.