Religious communities to meet the current needs

[TrueLight]

Now that you have the map, get some women who share your spiritual vision, begin to pray, discern, work together. Eventually find a house where you can live as one family and find a way of supporting yourselves. Submit your statutes to the bishop and you’re on your way. To get from an association to a congregation can take up to 20 years. That’s OK. You’re still a religious once the bishop has endorsed you and you make vows. It’s just that as long as you’re an association, you can be disbanded by the bishop. This is to protect the Church from charlatans. If you’re looking for a ministry, I can give you one that needs to be addressed in this country, ministry to public officials. There is one lonely Jesuit serving as the chaplain on Capitol Hill. How many Catholic politicians are there in our country? How many of them are well catechized? Does anyone go to them other than to scream at them for voting the wrong way? Someone has to take up the education and evangelization of Catholic public officials.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yay! Let’s do it.

Hold on. Maybe I should become Catholic first.

Seriously though, thanks for this detailed explanation on how these orders are founded.

So even if you’re not an “order”, you can still be considered “religious”?

 

[InquisitorMax]

I think I should like to found an Order Of Extreme Oratorians: beans on toast for tea and 20 grand for a set of vestments. Every day a High Mass. And have it in the desert.

You know what?

I have a funny feeling we’d have to beat people off with staves.* [Mental note: must assign Brother Herakles that duty. I feel it would be part of his charism]*

 

[JReducation]

No one can found a new order. The door for new orders has been closed. You can start a congregation, a society of apostolic life, a secular institute, a priestly fraternity, a confraternity, nut no more orders.

The term “order” is often used interchangeably with “congregation”. The fact is they are not the same. Each has a very special place of grace in the life of the Church. That being said, let’s look at the difference between an order and a congregation.

ORDER

A brotherhood or sisterhood founded to live the Gospel in a very specific way. The men are Brother, whether they are priests or not. The women are nuns. The word friar comes from the Latin, Frater (Brother). There are three kinds of orders.

Monks and nuns: Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists, Camaldolese, Carmelite nuns, Dominican nuns, Augustinian nuns, Poor Clare nuns and Basilians (Eastern Catholic) – all founded to live a life of prayer, solitude, silence, manual labor, stability and obedience.

Friars: Franciscans, Carmelites, Dominicans, Trinitarians and Servites – all founded to live in brotherhood, a life of prayer, obedience, poverty, penance, community and some apostolic work, mostly preaching. The work cannot interfere with their way of life. The way of life, trumps the work. They try to adjust their work schedule to fit around the life of the community. If they have to hear confessions, confessions must wait until they finish community dinner and community recreation, unless the person is in danger of death. If it’s mass, the mass must wait until they finish praying the Divine Office. Mass is never an emergency. Under normal circumstances, they never take on long-term apostolates, unless they can go as a group. Individuals can be assigned to an apostolate, as long as he can live with a fraternity. If he has to live alone, it has to be short-term, usually not more than three years. That’s pushing it.

Society of Jesus : only one – founded to preach, teach and do mission work. Community life adjusts to the demands of the work. When the work is a lot, they spend less time together. If the work is scattered, they are sent all over the globe. They may live alone for years. They adjust their schedule for prayer, meals, recreation and other community functions to the needs of the faithful whom they serve.

When members of an order complete their formation, which takes from 6 to 10 years, the individual makes solemn vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. They Church calls them solemn because the person consecrating his entire life to live for Christ, in Christ and has promised to fulfill the virtues of poverty, chastity and obedience to perfection or forfeit his soul if he does not try. When you finish professing your vows, the superior says, “I, on the part of Christ and his Church, promise you eternal life if you fulfill all these things.” The vows are so sacred, that the Church promises you salvation, if you get it right or at least die trying.

The Jesuits were the last foundation that was allowed to come in under the title of an order with solemn vows. The Church realized that there was a difference between the Jesuits and the monks and friars. Other founders followed the example of St. Ignatius. The Church did not allow them to found orders. They congregated into families. Hence, congregations.

Notice, the monks and friars do not come together to do a specific job. Even the Dominicans and Franciscans, who were traditionally preachers, they never change the way they live, their schedule or their customs so they can fit in one more sermon, one more retreat or one more parish mission. All these things can be done, as long as it does not upset the way they live.

There are always exceptions. Sometimes, you do a favor for a bishop or particular group and you allow a friar to be away from community life for a few days to run a parish mission. He’s not away forever. Also, it’s not what everyone is doing. It’s only one man who is being sent on a special mission. The rest are carrying on with the community life as the founder, rule and constitutions mandate.

The Jesuits, were not founded this way. They were to preach, teach and do missionary work. They organized their prayer life, community life, and everything about the way they live, to fit the work. Friars are not allowed to do that.

A Carmelite must always be a contemplative first. Then he can be a teacher or priest. If being a teacher or priest gets in the way of contemplation, then he does not have a call to be a Carmelite or he has to make some changes in his duties. A Franciscan must always be a poor brother. If he is given permission to become a priest or a medical doctor or a run a homeless shelter, and he cannot spare time to be with his brothers, help them, work with them or serve them, and he cannot live a life of poverty, then he has to leave the order or he has to pull back on his work. Something is definitely wrong. That’s life in an order. Your existence is all about living every day a certain way.

It is about becoming a particular kind of person, not doing a specific ministry. Even the Dominicans who are preachers, must be contemplatives first. If they preach, without spending time in contemplation and in community, they are not Dominican. They are something else and everyone will be happy, because they love the guy’s preaching. Guess who’s going to be very unhappy? Jesus and Dominic. They are contemplatives who preach.

 

[JReducation]

CONGREGATIONS

A community of men, women or both, founded to serve the needs of the faithful. In order to do so effectively, they congregate as a brotherhood or sisterhood. The women are called Sisters, not nuns. The men are called Clerks Regular, if they are priests or Lay Brothers if they are not priests.

Let’s take a congregation, the Salesians. St. John Bosco wanted to make sure that the Oratory of St. Francis de Sales continued after his death. The oratory offered poor boys a home and a school. He began with two of the boys who had studied at the oratory. He trained them to do the work that he was doing. When they were not working for the oratory, they would pray, eat, rest, play, spend quiet time with the Lord. Notice, they existed to keep the oratory going. They are the second largest religious community in the Church. St. John Bosco was a priest. He felt that they Salesians needed priests, because many of the boys did not have the sacraments. They are an congregation of priests. However, among the first three Salesians, one never became a priest. He did make vows, but his job was to run the oratory. Mass and sacraments were left up to his companions who were priests. He was a lay brother. He’s no less a Salesian and his job is no less important. He has other duties that are not sacramental.

Take the Sisters of St. Joseph, which everyone knows. They were a group of French women who congregated to educate poor children and to take care of the sick poor. They did not want to be nuns. They deliberately placed themselves under the local bishop instead of the pope. The local bishop helped them write statutes that said that they would make simple vows of chastity, poverty and obedience. Their vows did not demand the same intensity as those of nuns. They would live in houses not in monasteries. They would dress like the French widow or whatever other clothing was appropriate for their work. The would not pray the Divine Office. Instead they would pray the Little Office of the Virgin Mary, the rosary, and they should have time for silent prayer. They could own whatever was necessary to educate the young and care for the sick. They could own houses, books, school buildings, hospitals, equipment, etc. As long as it was for the good of the students and the sick, they could own it. Unlike friars and nuns who don’t own much at all. If they had wealthy parents, their parents would give a dowry when they entered. This helped pay for the work of the sisters. Obedience was predicated on the work. The superior could command whatever was necessary for the work, not outside of that. A superior cold not command a sister to pray more. That is not the superior’s business. In an order, the superior can command you to spend more time in prayer. Your entire life is an open book to the superior.

Because their way of life has more flexibility due to the fact that it must have such flexibility in order do the work that they do, the vows of religious in congregation are called simple vows. Today, the biggest difference between the vows of an order and a congregation is chastity. If the member of an order tries to marry, without a dispensation, the marriage is invalid. If a member of a congregation tries to marry without a dispensation, the marriage is illegal, but valid. He is married and his ties to his community cease to exist. In both cases, you’re in a state of grave sin and may not receive the sacraments until you are dispensed to do so by the Holy See.

Obedience is going to depend on the constitutions of your community. In some communities, you must obey without questioning. In other communities, decisions are made jointly. In orders, the superior always has the right to pull the rug out from under the community. In other words, decisions are made jointly, only as long as the superior will allow it. This is because orders follow a rule. The rules all say that the brothers and sisters must obey the superior and the rule does not place parameters or conditions on that obedience. It’s like a blank check. In an order, you will never see in the constitutions where it says that the superior “may never command blah blah blah”. It will always say, “the superior must do A, B, and C.” The superior is given marching orders, but he is not given too many limits. As long as his or her orders are moral and within the law, they are to be obeyed, even if he’s mistaken. In congregations, they actually place limits on the authority of the superior and some congregations do not have a superior. They are governed by a council with a moderator who heads the council.

Poverty, as I said, in congregations, what you own and where you live is determined by the work you do. In orders, what you own and where you live is determined by the mind of the founder and the style of life that you life. A Carmelite may have more things than a Franciscan. A Carmelite is a contemplative. Having many books does not interfere with contemplation. A Franciscan also contemplates, but his is first and foremost a poor brother. He has very few books or none at all. The few books in the house are shared between the brothers. Having many books just for you, separates you from your brothers. Sharing them, makes you poor and dependent on each other.

SUMMARY:

Orders: very few – live a way of life and shape their work to fit the way they live.

Congregations: many – have a specific apostolate and they shape the way they live so that it supports their apostolate.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Oneofthewomen]

snipped for space) If you’re looking for a ministry, I can give you one that needs to be addressed in this country, ministry to public officials. There is one lonely Jesuit serving as the chaplain on Capitol Hill. How many Catholic politicians are there in our country? How many of them are well catechized? Does anyone go to them other than to scream at them for voting the wrong way? Someone has to take up the education and evangelization of Catholic public officials.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Br, JR this is the best idea for a ministry that I have ever heard!!
And one that I would love to be part of!
I am from NY state, and needless to say, our Catholic governor, IMHO, needs some help in the catechesis department!
You have given me a wonderful idea, now if I can only get some others together who might be willing to give it a shot!!

 

[JReducation]

Br, JR this is the best idea for a ministry that I have ever heard!!
And one that I would love to be part of!
I am from NY state, and needless to say, our Catholic governor, IMHO, needs some help in the catechesis department!
You have given me a wonderful idea, now if I can only get some others together who might be willing to give it a shot!!

There is a great deal of work that needs to be done in this area. I’m working on pulling together a public association of Franciscans for Life, which is an association of consecrated Franciscan Brothers and Laymen dedicated to spreading the Gospel of Life according to the manner and spirit of St. Francis and St. Maximilian Kolbe.

There is much to be done. It’s about praying outside of abortuaries, going to pregnancy centers, providing material assistance to poor families with babies or who are expecting babies. This is all good.

However, because there are more threats to human life and the dignity of life, there is much more that we can do. We can catechize our Catholic politicians by visiting them, writing to them and to their staff. We must also have prayer vigils and prayer marathons for them when we know that there is a difficult topic on the table.

Right now, this budget question has serious moral implications. Most Catholic politicians don’t know it. They are not well catechized. They may vote the wrong way on this. They have probably been taught to go with the lesser of two evils. The problem is that you’re still choosing evil. The moral law says that you may never choose evil. You must go with the greater of two goods, even if neither is the perfect good.

Then there are young men and women who are the up and coming political leaders. Does anyone have anything for them such as Catholic Democrats, Catholic Republicans, Catholic Socialists, etc? Pointing the finger at them, because that party endorses abortion and same-sex marriage and the other party endorses some other moral evil is not evangelization.

We need religious congregations and societies of apostolic life to educate these young people in the faith and the moral law. Let them see the good and evil in every political movement. Teach them to pray before voting on something. Help them to learn to prioritize faith over patriotism. Expose them to some great saints who were politicians, military leaders and monarchs: Thomas More, Louis King of France, Joan of Arc and Elizabeth of Hungary.

Expose them to great Catholics who had to make political choices and gave their lives for it: Maximilian Kolbe who condemned the Shoah and was arrested. He then stood up for the life of an innocent man. Juniper Serra, fought the Spanish Viceroy in Mexico in defense of the Indians’ rights. Bartolome de Las Casas, a famous Dominican Friar who complained to the Spanish Crown the Indians were being proselytized by the Spanish. He finally obtained a decree that prohibited proselytizing the Indians and forcing conversions. He instituted a system of catechesis and evangelization that was gentle and inviting, based on Dominican tradition. To get this up and running, he had to educate the Catholic political leaders.

The Franciscans of Andalucia educated the Spanish government, when the Crown was evicting the Jews and Muslims. The friars demonstrated that it was one thing to protect the faith and it was another to steal the land and wealth that a man had worked hard to earn. The fact was that the Muslims and Jews had been there for 800 years and were now being told to leave, but take nothing of what they had worked hard to earn.

We have great examples of this kind of work. Today, more than ever, we need associations, congregations and institutes to study these great men and women who catechized and led politicians, in a way that benefited the people they were protecting and the politician.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[jwinch2]

Very helpful information Brother. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out.

 

[JReducation]

Very helpful information Brother. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out.

I don’t mind. I’ve taught since 1969. Writing comes easily to me. My problem lately is my memory. I believe it may be due to taking many medications fo rmy cancer. Whatever it is, it’s has a horrible effect. I remember what I read and what it means. I can see it if I close my eyes, but I can’t recall who wrote it or maybe I do, but I can’t recall where I saw it. Of course, I can’t find it again. That’s frustrating, when you want to offer it to someone to read.

Anyway. . . moving right along. This whole notion of religious communities is a very fascinating one, because most people are not aware of any of this. This includes priests. If you study theology and you get your M.Div, you don’t study religious law. It’s not a requirement. You only study to parts of Canon Law: marriage and the rights and duties of pastors (bishops). The rest of the course is really teaching you how to read Canon Law so that you can understand it when you open up the book. It’s too much to cover in a one-year course that meets three hours per week. Those of us who have done formation work, have been superiors, or have been canon lawyers would be the ones to study these laws. Also, if you’re a religious, you get many of them in novitiate, but not extensively either. You usually learn the laws that apply to you. I was fortunate, because I did formation work for many years and then I was superior. I learned on the job.

Moving back to the topic of this thread, there are many needs today that have to be met and can be met by societies of apostolic life or religious congregations. What I see is that everyone talks about the shortage of vocations, but not many move toward seminaries or religious houses.

I’ve been working two yeas with a group of men to preach the Gospel of Life. They are very dedicated, but they see this as something that they want to do a few hours a month. It’s very hard to find men who are called to serve the unborn, sick, elderly and the vulnerable and men who will educate the world on the sanctity of life.

Many Franciscan obediences no longer ordain. Franciscan life was meant to be lived among the poor as one of them, living in obedience. It’s not a charism that requires Holy Orders. It never did. I find many people who pray for religious vocations and many who wish there were more religious around. However, the idea of being a male religious does not seem to appeal to many men today. These obediences that do not ordain are very small indeed. Yet, they meet a need in the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[TrueLight]

Brother JR,

Are third orders religious communities, and what role do you see them playing in meeting current needs?

 

[NewsTheMan]

For what it’s worth, I am going to be taking a month retreat in January next year to discern my vocation with the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer. I believe they are an emerging community that are going to meet the needs of the Church in the 21st century

 

[JReducation]

Brother JR,

Are third orders religious communities, and what role do you see them playing in meeting current needs?

That’s the $100,000.00 question. Let’s do Church History 101 again.

The first Third Order to be founded was the Franciscan Third Order. Such a concept did not exist. There were men and women who lived in the secular world that wanted to follow Francis and his brothers and sisters. They had duties in the world. They could not abandon them. Though they were willing to do so just to be as holy as Francis.

Francis advised them not to do so. Instead, he wrote that letter that you read on penance. He gave this to them as a rule, along with other statutes. He named them , The Brothers and Sisters of Penance. They were secular men and women. Some were deacons, priests, bishops, married men, single men, married women and single women, but all of them were secular. None of them made the vows made by the friars and the nuns. The order was later called the Third Order, because it was third in order of chronology. Today, its known as the Secular Franciscan Order (SFO) not to be confused with OSF.

The Dominicans were asked to do the same thing by some lay followers. Later the Carmelites were asked. As a result, these penitential orders came into existence. They were called Third Orders, because of the order in which they were founded, not because of order of importance, rank or dignity. Though, they were treated like garbage by the friars who were priests, between Vatican I and Vatican II. This was one of the problems that Vatican II had to clean up, which many people fail to acknowledge was a real problem. They were treated as some club that existed at the beck and call of the friars and at their pleasure. The friars could erect a fraternity and suppress it. Vatican II stopped that nonsense.

The Franciscans went back to the 13th century. The friars do not have the authority to erect or suppress them. They don’t have the authority to govern them, control their money, make rules for them, control their property or interfere in their affairs. They can only serve as spiritual assistants. They have their own government. They have their own Superior General who is equal in authority and dignity to the superior general of the friars and the nuns.

The Carmelite and Dominican seculars continue to be governed by the friars. However, I understand that they are much kinder to the seculars.

Over the years, many of these men and women began to live in community, took on an apostolate, and lived chastity, poverty and obedience. They were eventually separated from their secular fraternity and recognized as religious congregations. However, they followed the same rule as their secular counterparts, with the difference that they live in communities and make vows.

Today, most Third Orders have two branches, the religious branch and the secular branch. The religious branch are those who make vows and live in community, such as the Dominican Sisters. They are Third Order Dominicans, but they are religious. Then there are their secular counterparts called the Lay Dominicans. They are also Third Order Dominicans, but they live in their homes and do not make the same vows as the sisters do. The same is true for the Franciscans and the Carmelites. The seculars were the original Tertiaries.

Some communities have a third order only for seculars, not for religious. A third order can be either secular or religious or both.

Why do I always end up giving history lessons. That was not even my major when I studied theology. My major was asceticism and mysticism. Why doesn’t anyone ask me about the anatomy of the soul or how grace works, about penance, maybe a few questions as to how prayer really works. How to live the Christian life. Those are my areas of real knowledge. We need a Church historian. Hey folks, I had two-years of Church history and 10-years of Franciscan history, that’s it. Keep the questions easy.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

For what it’s worth, I am going to be taking a month retreat in January next year to discern my vocation with the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer. I believe they are an emerging community that are going to meet the needs of the Church in the 21st century

They are a beautiful community. They certainly have a place in the Church. A word of advice . . . if you go into this thinking that this community is going to meet the needs of the Church in the 21st century, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. No community can deliver that. They will meet A need of the Church. in the 21st century.

Obviously,there are many areas in which they don’t dabble and they don’t want to dabble. It’s not part of their charism. The list of what they don’t do is very long.

However, what they do, they do very well and with great love. That’s what makes them very holy men. Hopefully, what will attract you to them will be more realistic, rather than the expectation that they will meet the needs of the Church in the 21st century. If that were true. Every other religious community, society of apostolic life, secular order, and religious congregation, may as well pack up and go home, the Sons of the Holy Redeemer are here. Are you seeing unrealistic that sounds?

Go visit them and discern with them. Look at what they really do and how they really live. Don’t go in with preconceived notions about them. Let the Holy Spirit speak to you. You will either feel at home with them or you will not. If you feel at home, it may be a sign that this is where you belong. If you don’t feel at home, then maybe God wants you somewhere else.

Neither the religious life nor the priesthood have ever been about Messiahnism. They are about Jesus. The Sons of the Holy Redeemer will never meet the needs that the Missionaries of Charity meet, that the Jesuits meet, that the Franciscans meet, that the Dominicans meet,etc. None of these will ever meet the needs tha the Sons of the Holy Redeemer meet.

The Holy Spirit, in his infinite wisdom, raises up religious families to meet a specific need of time and place in the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Zacdecat]

The Dominican Nuns where I live have exploded in numbers and the postulants are being housed in rental on site cabins. The cost for expanding the convent are enormous and therefore the noviate is likely to move to Melbourne next year. It is very sad as it has been a delight to watch from a tiny group to its current numbers.

 

[NewsTheMan]

They are a beautiful community. They certainly have a place in the Church. A word of advice . . . if you go into this thinking that this community is going to meet the needs of the Church in the 21st century, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. No community can deliver that. They will meet A need of the Church. in the 21st century.

Obviously,there are many areas in which they don’t dabble and they don’t want to dabble. It’s not part of their charism. The list of what they don’t do is very long.

However, what they do, they do very well and with great love. That’s what makes them very holy men. Hopefully, what will attract you to them will be more realistic, rather than the expectation that they will meet the needs of the Church in the 21st century. If that were true. Every other religious community, society of apostolic life, secular order, and religious congregation, may as well pack up and go home, the Sons of the Holy Redeemer are here. Are you seeing unrealistic that sounds?

Go visit them and discern with them. Look at what they really do and how they really live. Don’t go in with preconceived notions about them. Let the Holy Spirit speak to you. You will either feel at home with them or you will not. If you feel at home, it may be a sign that this is where you belong. If you don’t feel at home, then maybe God wants you somewhere else.

Neither the religious life nor the priesthood have ever been about Messiahnism. They are about Jesus. The Sons of the Holy Redeemer will never meet the needs that the Missionaries of Charity meet, that the Jesuits meet, that the Franciscans meet, that the Dominicans meet,etc. None of these will ever meet the needs tha the Sons of the Holy Redeemer meet.

The Holy Spirit, in his infinite wisdom, raises up religious families to meet a specific need of time and place in the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you Brother for the kind words and thoughts. I think you read what I said the wrong way, which is understandable. By saying “meeting the needs of the Church” I don’t mean all the needs, of course. I simply mean - ‘the needs’ - whichever they may be (it could be all, or it could be one, and we know that the Church has many).

I think I have a good idea of what I am going into. And I believe this is precisely because I understand their charism and their work and what they do. I still pray and think about Franciscans, Jesuits, other Orders, the Priests, the laymen, the Bishops, the Pope, the whole thing. We need them all, for each thing they do. I am just particularly excited to be a part of this community - not only in terms of it’s internal workings but also in terms of what I will be a part of in doing something for the Church. I am open to where God wants to send me, and I think I am at peace with that, it was perhaps the biggest obstacle in my vocation - to think “perhaps God actually wants you somewhere else, would you be able to say yes?”. I struggled for a while, I had to get rid of my own wants and needs, and now I am open to Christ to serve where I can. Who knows? Perhaps in 10 years I will be a Franciscan? Perhaps a Dominican? What is important to me is that I do what I can for Jesus Christ and for the betterment of His Church. I believe that the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer is where God wants me to be - but of course, this is what a “come and see” is all about!

I don’t mean to say this (or did I in my OP) as a way of trying to look heroic or anything - I re-read my post and it might come off that way. I just thought I’d hop in and say that I hope to be a part of meeting the needs of the Church in some way - whichever way that might be.

 

[jwinch2]

Hey folks, I had two-years of Church history and 10-years of Franciscan history, that’s it. Keep the questions easy.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Ha!

 

[JReducation]

Ha!

Do you know how many years it takes to be a Church historian?

4 yrs of college - BA
4 yrs of grad school - M.Div.
3 yrs of post grad school - Sacred Theology Licentiate
2 yrs of university - Sacred Theology Doctorate

That’s a lot of years reading and analyzing history books.

That’s why I went for Ascetical and Mystical Theology

4 yrs of college
4 yrs of grad school
3 yrs of post grad

Ding! Dinner is ready.

However, we do require that our brothers do 6 to 10 years of formation from the time they become aspirants to the time they make final vows. Every year, they get Franciscan History, Franciscan Theology, Franciscan Spirituality, Franciscan Approach to Scripture, Franciscan ecclessiology and Franciscan Law. I went 10 yrs, because I extended my formation. I wanted to make sure this was where God wanted me to be, before making final vows. You can extend until the 10th year. Then, you’re in or out.

Normally:

Aspirant: 6 mos to 1 year
Postulant: 6 most to 2 years
Novice: 12 months to 2 years
Temporary vows: 3 to 6 years

These stages have a minimum, but the individual and the superior can extend any of these stages to the max.

Then solemn vows for life.

If the superior says that you can be ordained, that will follow. If he says no, you’re still in and committed until death.

The Dominican Nuns where I live have exploded in numbers and the postulants are being housed in rental on site cabins. The cost for expanding the convent are enormous and therefore the noviate is likely to move to Melbourne next year. It is very sad as it has been a delight to watch from a tiny group to its current numbers.

Are they nuns or are they sisters? I know that the Dominican Sisters are exploding everywhere. I had not heard about the Dominican Nuns.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Thank you Brother for the kind words and thoughts. I think you read what I said the wrong way, which is understandable. By saying “meeting the needs of the Church” I don’t mean all the needs, of course. I simply mean - ‘the needs’ - whichever they may be (it could be all, or it could be one, and we know that the Church has many).

I think I have a good idea of what I am going into. And I believe this is precisely because I understand their charism and their work and what they do. I still pray and think about Franciscans, Jesuits, other Orders, the Priests, the laymen, the Bishops, the Pope, the whole thing. We need them all, for each thing they do. I am just particularly excited to be a part of this community - not only in terms of it’s internal workings but also in terms of what I will be a part of in doing something for the Church. I am open to where God wants to send me, and I think I am at peace with that, it was perhaps the biggest obstacle in my vocation - to think “perhaps God actually wants you somewhere else, would you be able to say yes?”. I struggled for a while, I had to get rid of my own wants and needs, and now I am open to Christ to serve where I can. Who knows? Perhaps in 10 years I will be a Franciscan? Perhaps a Dominican? What is important to me is that I do what I can for Jesus Christ and for the betterment of His Church. I believe that the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer is where God wants me to be - but of course, this is what a “come and see” is all about!

I don’t mean to say this (or did I in my OP) as a way of trying to look heroic or anything - I re-read my post and it might come off that way. I just thought I’d hop in and say that I hope to be a part of meeting the needs of the Church in some way - whichever way that might be.

They’re an awesome community. I have a friend whose son is a brother in that community. He’s one of the nicest people.

Do you know if they finally received permission to present men for ordination? This was the last glitch in their re-entry. I heard about the glitch, but I never heard if it was resolved or still pending.

Here is what I last heard. They were fully received into the Church. Their community was given canonical status as an Institute of Consecrated Life, but not as a religious order. Therefore, they are a public association of religious. OK so far . . . as long as your vows are recognized. They will never be an order, because orders are not allowed. However, they can be raised to either an autonomous monastery or a congregation. They were waiting for permission from the Vatcan to be able to present men for Holy Orders. That suddenly disappeared. I never read if it was resolved or if they’re still on hold. The way it was, they could receive religious and they could make perpetual vows, but the superior did not have authority to ask any bishop to ordain any of his men and bishops were not allowed to offer to do so until they got the go ahead from the Vatican.

I’m curious.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[NewsTheMan]

They’re an awesome community. I have a friend whose son is a brother in that community. He’s one of the nicest people.

Do you know if they finally received permission to present men for ordination? This was the last glitch in their re-entry. I heard about the glitch, but I never heard if it was resolved or still pending.

Here is what I last heard. They were fully received into the Church. Their community was given canonical status as an Institute of Consecrated Life, but not as a religious order. Therefore, they are a public association of religious. OK so far . . . as long as your vows are recognized. They will never be an order, because orders are not allowed. However, they can be raised to either an autonomous monastery or a congregation. They were waiting for permission from the Vatcan to be able to present men for Holy Orders. That suddenly disappeared. I never read if it was resolved or if they’re still on hold. The way it was, they could receive religious and they could make perpetual vows, but the superior did not have authority to ask any bishop to ordain any of his men and bishops were not allowed to offer to do so until they got the go ahead from the Vatican.

I’m curious.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Br.JR,

I hope this clears it up for you
lms.org.uk/news-and-events/friends-of-papa-stronsay-newsletters/fopsnewsletter-july-2011

It’s their first newsletter, published this month, and on the first page, the very first article is about their current status.

If you can’t view it, basically: they await permission to Ordain, they await Canonical status and they hope for this to be soon as the new Bishop is consecrated on the 15th of August.

I think this warrants our prayers

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Br.JR,

I hope this clears it up for you
lms.org.uk/news-and-events/friends-of-papa-stronsay-newsletters/fopsnewsletter-july-2011

It’s their first newsletter, published this month, and on the first page, the very first article is about their current status.

If you can’t view it, basically: they await permission to Ordain, they await Canonical status and they hope for this to be soon as the new Bishop is consecrated on the 15th of August.

I think this warrants our prayers

What this means is that they were not received as a community of Pontifical Right, which is OK. They are currently a private association.

When the bishop erects them, they will become, not an order, but a either a Public Assocation of Religious or a Diocesan Congregation. Either one allows them to present men for ordination. The word “order” is being used interchangeably with congregation. I guess because most people understand that word better. The original community founded by St. Alphonsus goes by CSSR, with C for Congregation.

The difference between them and an order is that in an order, the bishop has no say in who is ordained. In a diocesan community, the bshop has the last word, not the superior. The superior examines the candidate and presents him. If the bishop likes the CV, he ordains. If he does not, he can choose not to ordain, but the superior may not ask another bishop to do so.

When you’re a community of Pontifical Right, if the one bishop refuses to ordain your men, you can go to another bishop, because you’re not part of any diocese. You simply live in the diocese.

Since they are awaiting to be erected by the local bishop, this means that the Vatican has incardinated them into that diocese. In effect, this makes that bishop their major superior and the superior is the on-site superior, but all major decisions must be run through the bishop, even the decisions of their chapter and the content of their constitutions must be approved by the bishop. They cannot leave the diocese without the bishop’s permission.

This is pretty common with new communities. If the community proves its fidelity and its obedience. bishops are really good at giving them a lot of room to expand and work with very little intervention from him.

So far, the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer have done everything by the book. The only glitch is waiting for the Benedictine Abbot to be ordained a bishop. This may be a blessing to them. They have a monastic streak to them. To have a bishop who is a monk, will give them someone who is sympathetic and understands.

Once they are canonically erect, even though they will be diocesan, they can only be suppressed by the Holy Father. As they stand now, the bishop can suppress them. This is why the canonical erection is important. Bishops come and go, but the community lives on. That’s why suppression is reserved for the pope, but you must be canonically erected either by a bishop or by the Vatican.

I like the Sons. I find them to be humble, very nice people, not radical traditionalists at all. They are always very kind to other religious and to diocesan clergy. They are always very cooperative with others. They don’t have that “We’re EF and you’re NO attitude.”

Their beauty is in their sincerity and opennnes. What I get from them is, “This is our charism and that’s your charism, but both are valid, good and necessary.” You can work with people like that and warm up to them really fast, because they are very affirming and easy to affirm.

Many Traditionalists are going to have a tough time with them. There are Traditionalists who expect them to be of the same bolt of cloth as the SSPX. They are not. They do not support the SSPX in any way.

This came out when the Vatican told them that they could no longer call themselves Redemptorists, because the General Council of the Redemptorists woudl only re-admit them, if they joined the Redemptorist Congregation under its current superior and concil. This was a fair request. Unlike Augustinians, Benedictines and Franciscans, the Redemptorists have never been more than one obedience.

However, the Sons were very humble and understanding. They prayed over it, discerned and realized that while they and the Redemptorists are following the spirit of St. Alphonse, they are also quite different. Each side would lose part of its beauty and identity if they merged. They agreed to change their name from Transalpine Redemptorists to the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer.

From where I sit, this speaks loudly of their humility and their holiness. They are patient, accommodating, and they trust God and the Church. Sounds like a recipe for a saint to me.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Br.JR,

I hope this clears it up for you
lms.org.uk/news-and-events/friends-of-papa-stronsay-newsletters/fopsnewsletter-july-2011

It’s their first newsletter, published this month, and on the first page, the very first article is about their current status.

If you can’t view it, basically: they await permission to Ordain, they await Canonical status and they hope for this to be soon as the new Bishop is consecrated on the 15th of August.

I think this warrants our prayers

What this means is that they were not received as a community of Pontifical Right, which is OK. They are currently a private association.

When the bishop erects them, they will become, not an order, but a either a Public Assocation of Religious or a Diocesan Congregation. Either one allows them to present men for ordination. The word “order” is being used interchangeably with congregation. I guess because most people understand that word better. The original community founded by St. Alphonsus goes by CSSR, with C for Congregation.

The difference between them and an order is that in an order, the bishop has no say in who is ordained. In a diocesan community, the bshop has the last word, not the superior. The superior examines the candidate and presents him. If the bishop likes the CV, he ordains. If he does not, he can choose not to ordain, but the superior may not ask another bishop to do so.

When you’re a community of Pontifical Right, if the one bishop refuses to ordain your men, you can go to another bishop, because you’re not part of any diocese. You simply live in the diocese.

Since they are awaiting to be erected by the local bishop, this means that the Vatican has incardinated them into that diocese. In effect, this makes that bishop their major superior and the superior is the on-site superior, but all major decisions must be run through the bishop, even the decisions of their chapter and the content of their constitutions must be approved by the bishop. They cannot leave the diocese without the bishop’s permission.

This is pretty common with new communities. If the community proves its fidelity and its obedience. bishops are really good at giving them a lot of room to expand and work with very little intervention from him.

So far, the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer have done everything by the book. The only glitch is waiting for the Benedictine Abbot to be ordained a bishop. This may be a blessing to them. They have a monastic streak to them. To have a bishop who is a monk, will give them someone who is sympathetic and understands.

Once they are canonically erect, even though they will be diocesan, they can only be suppressed by the Holy Father. As they stand now, the bishop can suppress them. This is why the canonical erection is important. Bishops come and go, but the community lives on. That’s why suppression is reserved for the pope, but you must be canonically erected either by a bishop or by the Vatican.

I like the Sons. I find them to be humble, very nice people, not radical traditionalists at all. They are always very kind to other religious and to diocesan clergy. They are always very cooperative with others. They don’t have that “We’re EF and you’re NO attitude.”

Their beauty is in their sincerity and opennnes. What I get from them is, “This is our charism and that’s your charism, but both are valid, good and necessary.” You can work with people like that and warm up to them really fast, because they are very affirming and easy to affirm.

Many Traditionalists are going to have a tough time with them. There are Traditionalists who expect them to be of the same bolt of cloth as the SSPX. They are not. They do not support the SSPX in any way.

This came out when the Vatican told them that they could no longer call themselves Redemptorists, because the General Council of the Redemptorists woudl only re-admit them, if they joined the Redemptorist Congregation under its current superior and concil. This was a fair request. Unlike Augustinians, Benedictines and Franciscans, the Redemptorists have never been more than one obedience.

However, the Sons were very humble and understanding. They prayed over it, discerned and realized that while they and the Redemptorists are following the spirit of St. Alphonse, they are also quite different. Each side would lose part of its beauty and identity if they merged. They agreed to change their name from Transalpine Redemptorists to the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer.

From where I sit, this speaks loudly of their humility and their holiness. They are patient, accommodating, and they trust God and the Church. Sounds like a recipe for a saint to me.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF