Religious Freedom not part of the Catholic Faith until 1963

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KofC660 said:
Try reading my posts.

I never stated God forces anyone to worship Him, I stated that the only worship God accepts is the worship in the “Catholic way”.

Once again, God gives man free will, man is free to worship Him, in any way man wants, or even not at all.

However, God does not accept all forms of worship (see: Cain and Abel).

The Church says that man is not “free” to worship in any other way than the “Catholic way”, and that the state has the right to prohibit ways of worship that are not Catholic.
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point that out to me in canon law please.
 
KofC660 said:
Absolutely not.

You have fallen into the trap of natural humanism.

The Church has declared that people have no “rights” to be heretics or apostates or atheists, etc.

God has given you the free will to choose to worship in a Catholic way, or to worship in an erroneous way. But God has not given you a freedom to worship, in general. That “freedom” was given to you by natural humanistic governments, such as the one that currently rules over the United States.
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Well it’d be a straw man since I did not say people have a right to be heretics or apostates. What I said is that people have rights. Meaning each person regardless of the state of sin, remains a creation in the image and likeness of God with the dignity of being a child of God. That people can choose to be is different from having the right to be. Free Will is different from being justified.
 
a return of the inquisition would be wrong. i believe in canon law it states that we are not to force our beliefs on anyone does it not?
 
SyCarl said:
Well hopefully the Roman Catholic Church will never be in a position to force its opinion on people again. I bet you would like to see the Inquisition restarted.
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That the Inquisition forced opinions unto people is an utter fallacy. And in the context of medieval times, the Inquisition was more fair than the civil courts of the time.
 
demerzel85 said:
What I said is that people have rights.
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Until the innovations of John XXIII and the Second Vatican Council (which doesn’t necessarily have to be accepted by anyone, as it was a pastoral council, not dogmatic), the Church disagreed with you.
 
KofC660 said:
Point out what?
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what you said here “The Church says that man is not “free” to worship in any other way than the “Catholic way”, and that the state has the right to prohibit ways of worship that are not Catholic”

please point it out where it states that in canon law.
 
TraditionalCath said:
a return of the inquisition would be wrong. i believe in canon law it states that we are not to force our beliefs on anyone does it not?
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The Inquisition doesn’t enforce beliefs on anyone other than baptized Christians.

If you’re a baptized Christian, you are under the Authority of the Church.

If not, the Inquisition would have no power over you.
 
KofC660 said:
Try reading my posts.

I never stated God forces anyone to worship Him, I stated that the only worship God accepts is the worship in the “Catholic way”.

Once again, God gives man free will, man is free to worship Him, in any way man wants, or even not at all.

However, God does not accept all forms of worship (see: Cain and Abel).

The Church says that man is not “free” to worship in any other way than the “Catholic way”, and that the state has the right to prohibit ways of worship that are not Catholic.
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Ah but what I have commented does not detract from the Catholic way is acceptable worship of God. One can choose the worship God accepts and one can choose otherwise. Whether or not the other forms can even be considered worship is up to God the Father to decide.
 
TraditionalCath said:
what you said here “The Church says that man is not “free” to worship in any other way than the “Catholic way”, and that the state has the right to prohibit ways of worship that are not Catholic”

please point it out where it states that in canon law.
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Canon Law doesn’t cover this.

What I am describing has been issued by pope after pope until John XXIII made an abrupt change in 1963. Traditional Catholicism doesn’t have a notion of “freedom of religion”, that is something that came out of Pacem in Terris in 1963.
 
KofC660 said:
Until this point, the Catholic Church NEVER recognized man’s “right” “to worship God in accordance…of his own conscience”…
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Incorrect.

The conscience must be properly formed for it to have effect.

If the conscience is not properly formed (say, like Bin Laden) then this right does not exist.

The conscience must be properly formed by accepting all the Church’s teachings (this means heretics don’t have this right)

This has been clarified by the Church, and misinterpreted by heretics on both sides of the aisle.
 
KofC660 said:
The Inquisition doesn’t enforce beliefs on anyone other than baptized Christians.

If you’re a baptized Christian, you are under the Authority of the Church.

If not, the Inquisition would have no power over you.
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oh really? then explain please this,

Because of its objective, combating heresy, the Inquisition had jurisdiction only over baptized members of the Church (which, however, encompassed the vast majority of the population). Non-Christians could still be tried for blasphemy by secular courts. Also, most of the witch trials were held by secular courts…"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

then what about the spanish inquistion against muslims and jews?
 
demerzel85 said:
Ah but what I have commented does not detract from the Catholic way is acceptable worship of God. One can choose the worship God accepts and one can choose otherwise. Whether or not the other forms can even be considered worship is up to God the Father to decide.
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Here’s a breakdown of my point:

God created man with free will.

Man is free to worship God as he deems fit, God is free to choose whether or not to accept man’s worship.

The power of the government comes ultimately from God.

The Catholic Church is God’s Church.

The government has the right to limit or prohibit any type of worship that is not deemed Catholic by the Church.
 
KofC660 said:
Here’s a breakdown of my point:

God created man with free will.

Man is free to worship God as he deems fit, God is free to choose whether or not to accept man’s worship.

The power of the government comes ultimately from God.

The Catholic Church is God’s Church.

The government has the right to limit or prohibit any type of worship that is not deemed Catholic by the Church.
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Well then, I am sure you will be quick to denounce Pope Benedict XVI. After all he went to a mosque in Turkey and prayed with the imam there. Then there was John Paul II kissing the Qu’ran. Heresy
 
SyCarl said:
Well then, I am sure you will be quick to denounce Pope Benedict XVI. After all he went to a mosque in Turkey and prayed with the imam there. Then the was John Paul II kissing the Qu’ran. Heresy
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Good point.
 
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