Religious Freedom

[kimmielittle]

No, that’s not what I said. I never said “marriage between a man and woman is illogical”, I said “being opposed to same-sex marriage is illogical” Also, I have never heard a homosexual say, at any point in my life, “marriage between a man and woman is illogical”. That is just a right wing lie.

Actually, that is indeed… what is being said…When homosexuals refer to a civil union as the same as a “marriage”. It is not now… or ever… will equate to the “marriage” That union between a man and a women.]…Sorry

 

[jilly4ski]

I never disagreed with the Trinity, I just believe that She is the Mother. There is really no difference.

I believe that She is female because that seems to be the most logical explanation.

No, this is not a “new age thing”, it is based on a much older Catholic belief.

Wow, it is is news to me that Jesus (a part of the trinity) was a woman! Also news to me that all the times God revealed “God’s” divine presence to those in the Bible, to and through Jesus, and through the Holy Spirit that God was mistaken in referring to “God’s self” using a male title or pronoun.

I am sorry if I come across as mean or uncharitable, but you have not provided any logical explanation for anything that you have posted in either your first post or subsequent posts.

 

[MariaTS]

Catholics must believe and adhere to ALL Church teaching.

That is wrong and it is the greatest lie I have ever heard.

 

[kimmielittle]

I never disagreed with the Trinity, I just believe that She is the Mother. There is really no difference.

Nice try…the problem is you have to deny Jesus’ own words…Words like, "Father why have you forsaken me? while on His very cross ]…Or Jesus saying ‘Abba’ In reference to God meaning Daddy ]…Or…Teaching us to pray “Our Father”…Or While on the cross telling the Good Thief basically " You will dine at My Father’s…

I believe that She is female because that seems to be the most logical explanation

How so? It seems very illogical to call myself a Catholic BUT go against the very foundations of Christian Teaching…just to make me feel warm and fuzzy…

No, this is not a “new age thing”, it is based on a much older Catholic belief.

Since Jesus refers to God as Our Father…His Father…The very BIRTH of Catholicism…How do you get any OLDER Catholic Teaching?

 

[MariaTS]

Source? Statistical source?

Perhaps this is why you are so confused about transsexuality. Male is different from female. Please refer to your Catechism.

There is no statistical source because this is based on what I have heard Catholics say.

Also, I understand that male is different from female, I am not a brainless idiot. Further, I am not confused about my gender, I know that it is female. I believe that the Goddess infused Mary with Her spirit so that She could give birth to Jesus, that’s not combining male and female.

 

[MariaTS]

Actually, that is indeed… what is being said…When homosexuals refer to a civil union as the same as a “marriage”. It is not now… or ever… will equate to the “marriage” That union between a man and a women.]…Sorry

This is why those opposed to same-sex marriage are completely illogical, they have no logical thought process when it comes to why they are opposed to it.

 

[MariaTS]

Nice try…the problem is you have to deny Jesus’ own words…Words like, "Father why have you forsaken me? while on His very cross ]…Or Jesus saying ‘Abba’ In reference to God meaning Daddy ]…Or…Teaching us to pray “Our Father”…Or While on the cross telling the Good Thief basically " You will dine at My Father’s…

How so? It seems very illogical to call myself a Catholic BUT go against the very foundations of Christian Teaching…just to make me feel warm and fuzzy…

Since Jesus refers to God as Our Father…His Father…The very BIRTH of Catholicism…How do you get any OLDER Catholic Teaching?

It is very illogical to believe everything in a book that was written 4000 years ago by men and only men who had a sexist agenda.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

That is wrong and it is the greatest lie I have ever heard.

With respect, it is neither wrong nor a lie. Catholics are to accept and believe in Church teachings, and yes, that means all of them (dogma and doctrine and discpline). It does not mean that one has to believe in a private revelation (those are none of the above). It does not mean that one has to believe that we hold hands (or don’t) at the Our Father --that is not part of the above.

it DOES mean that when something is taught (Catechism, Magesterium) that even if it is not ex cathedra we don’t say, “Oh it’s not ex cathedra, I don’t HAVE to believe it if I don’t want to.”

You haven’t really provided any documentation per se from the Church on transsexuals . .but there is PLENTY of documentation from the Church about same-sex marriage, etc. The Church is against it–so if you think it’s ‘ok’, you need to rethink. But if you STILL want to believe it’s OK, at least have the courtesy to say, "Yes, I’m Catholic and I know it’s the correct Church teaching but I personally disagree. It isn’t ‘ok’ for me to disagree but I’m going to do it anyway’.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

It is very illogical to believe everything in a book that was written 4000 years ago by men and only men who had a sexist agenda.

The New Testament was written less than 2000 years ago. What is your ‘proof’ that it was written by ‘only men’ and men who had a ‘sexist’ agenda?

 

[kimmielittle]

This is why those opposed to same-sex marriage are completely illogical, they have no logical thought process when it comes to why they are opposed to it.

Well now…logic for the Marriage between a man and a woman has over 4000 years of history…and same-sex civil unions have ?

Either produce YOUR logic in thinking… OR it stays as your subjective speculative thoughts.

That is Logic and it’s rules at work.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

This is why those opposed to same-sex marriage are completely illogical, they have no logical thought process when it comes to why they are opposed to it.

That’s a tautology, Maria.

 

[MariaTS]

With respect, it is neither wrong nor a lie. Catholics are to accept and believe in Church teachings, and yes, that means all of them (dogma and doctrine and discpline). It does not mean that one has to believe in a private revelation (those are none of the above). It does not mean that one has to believe that we hold hands (or don’t) at the Our Father --that is not part of the above.

it DOES mean that when something is taught (Catechism, Magesterium) that even if it is not ex cathedra we don’t say, “Oh it’s not ex cathedra, I don’t HAVE to believe it if I don’t want to.”

You haven’t really provided any documentation per se from the Church on transsexuals . .but there is PLENTY of documentation from the Church about same-sex marriage, etc. The Church is against it–so if you think it’s ‘ok’, you need to rethink. But if you STILL want to believe it’s OK, at least have the courtesy to say, "Yes, I’m Catholic and I know it’s the correct Church teaching but I personally disagree. It isn’t ‘ok’ for me to disagree but I’m going to do it anyway’.

We only have to agree with infallible statements. And there are very few of those. You don’t understand the Catholic faith, we are not obliged to believe in all teaching. That is purely propaganda from the religious right.

 

[MariaTS]

Well now…logic for the Marriage between a man and a woman has over 4000 years of history…and same-sex civil unions have ?

Either produce YOUR logic in thinking… OR it stays as your subjective speculative thoughts.

That is Logic and it’s rules at work.

Marriage has existed for over tens of thousands of years. The only religions that, in any way, oppose Same-Sex Marriage are Christianity, Islam, Judaism. Buddhism and Hinduism have been around much longer than Christianity and Islam and most Jews support same-sex marriage.

 

[MariaTS]

The New Testament was written less than 2000 years ago. What is your ‘proof’ that it was written by ‘only men’ and men who had a ‘sexist’ agenda?

Anyways, the fact that the New Testament was written at least a century after Jesus’ death means that there will be some inaccuracies. I know it was written only by men because there are no women authors of the New Testament. Also, a lot of their proposals in the New Testament are quite sexist.

 

[kimmielittle]

Anyways, the fact that the New Testament was written at least a century after Jesus’ death means that there will be some inaccuracies. I know it was written only by men because there are no women authors of the New Testament. Also, a lot of their proposals in the New Testament are quite sexist.

You really have me wondering…from ALL your posts…just who IS the Sexists

 

[kimmielittle]

Marriage has existed for over tens of thousands of years. The only religions that, in any way, oppose Same-Sex Marriage are Christianity, Islam, Judaism. Buddhism and Hinduism have been around much longer than Christianity and Islam and most Jews support same-sex marriage.

Let’s test your Logic here…provide evidence that either the New or Old Testament supports your theory, please. In support of same-sex marriages.

 

[MariaTS]

You really have me wondering…from ALL your posts…just who IS the Sexists

You really have me wondering…from your complete illogic and ignorance of proper english grammar…just what is your level of education? Or are you insinuating that I am sexist? If just men wrote the bible and wrote things that were against womens rights then they were obviously acting with sexism. And no, just to clarify, I do not consider abortion to be a womans right.

 

[MariaTS]

Let’s test your Logic here…provide evidence that either the New or Old Testament supports your theory, please. In support of same-sex marriages.

Um, thats extremely stubborn. Provide evidence that either the New or Old Testament supports my theory that Hinduism and Buddhism are accepting of Same-Sex Marriage, Islam and Christianity are opposed to Same-Sex Marriage and most Jews support Same-Sex Marriage? Well, since that statement makes no sense and is completely illogical and is impossible to do because the Bible says nothing about Hinduism, Buddhism, or Islam, I will be unable to do what you request.

 

[kimmielittle]

You really have me wondering…from your complete illogic and ignorance of proper english grammar…just what is your level of education? Or are you insinuating that I am sexist? If just men wrote the bible and wrote things that were against womens rights then they were obviously acting with sexism. And no, just to clarify, I do not consider abortion to be a womans right.

My level of education has nothing to do with the Logical facts, I present. Surely, you understand the fallacy of Ad Hominem nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

As to you being a sexist…You are the one that tries to counter Catholic Teachings using the Ad Hominem of the writers being sexists.

Contray to popular belief Catholism…isn’t teaching the “warm fuzzys”,as you seem to want. It teaches the truth.

 

[kimmielittle]

Um, thats extremely stubborn. Provide evidence that either the New or Old Testament supports my theory that Hinduism and Buddhism are accepting of Same-Sex Marriage, Islam and Christianity are opposed to Same-Sex Marriage and most Jews support Same-Sex Marriage? Well, since that statement makes no sense and is completely illogical and is impossible to do because the Bible says nothing about Hinduism, Buddhism, or Islam, I will be unable to do what you request.

Nice try

Support that either the New or Old Testament supports same-sex marriage. This is where your burden begins. I care nothing about other Religions. I am Catholic