Religious intolerance in the world

[Marilena]

one last point to you, i did not evade your questions. iam not aggressive by nature. you don’t know me so don’t judge me. you came off to me as demanding. i said enough on this topic. enough is enough. you obviously to me do not like muslims or what they believe. your choice. do you honestly think that EVERY muslim adheres to violence? not likely! and to state that islam, is a religion of violence is not true because if that was the case, then why aren’t ALL muslims adhereing to the violence? it wouldnt matter where they live would it? no. why aren’t the muslims where i live violent then?

 

[Marilena]

“So how do you confront such beliefs without resorting to violence?” QUOTE]

you grouped the above statement in a quote window with mine below, and note for the other readers, i did not state the above
there. he put that in with my post below. this is my post:

"yes we can, and we have examined their beliefs and their core party values, and it wasn’t just the jews they killed either. it was Catholic’s, Portestants, jw’s, exct exct exct. they were one of the most hideous violent parties with bizzare beliefs in the history of man.

 

[BobCatholic]

There have been plenty of Koran citations that support killing in the defense of God.

One more time.

Show me the verse that says that Muslims must be Suicide Bombers.

You will find ZERO such verses.

“Suicide bombers” are based on an INTERPRETATION of the Koran, not the Koran. Are you now claiming that Bin Laden’s interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

So the evil that Bin Laden is doing is based on HIM, and HIS interpretation of the Koran (NOT the Koran!)

 

[Valke2]

One more time.

Show me the verse that says that Muslims must be Suicide Bombers.

You will find ZERO such verses.

“Suicide bombers” are based on an INTERPRETATION of the Koran, not the Koran. Are you now claiming that Bin Laden’s interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

So the evil that Bin Laden is doing is based on HIM, and HIS interpretation of the Koran (NOT the Koran!)

I showed you the verse that said those who fight and die for God receive greater rewards. To a degree, everything is interpetation. Just because the Koran doesn’t mention “dirty bomb”, it doesn’t mean that one won’t be used to promote its teachings. Millions cheered or supported the events of 9/11. They did this because the west is viewed as an enemy of God. It is just one of the more recent examples of people supporting or killing others who disagree with religoiius beliefs. I’m not sure why you think that having a central authority would change that.

 

[Oneiron]

One more time.

Show me the verse that says that Muslims must be Suicide Bombers.

You will find ZERO such verses.

“Suicide bombers” are based on an INTERPRETATION of the Koran, not the Koran. Are you now claiming that Bin Laden’s interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

So the evil that Bin Laden is doing is based on HIM, and HIS interpretation of the Koran (NOT the Koran!)

Have you ever read the Q’uran? Those who die in Jihad will go to the highest level of heaven and have 77 eternal virgins for his use at any time and be loved by Allah. This is fact. The Muslims who flew planes into the twin towers believed they were in Jihad with America because we’ve been messing around in their countries and they don’t like it. The Iraqis, Israelites and Palestinis that strap bombs to themselves die in the name of Jihad.

Islam is a very loving religion, just as is Christianity. Yet people on this very forum have defended going to war and slaughtering whole cities as good and just. People everyday, Christians of every denomination, tell me that we shouldstill be killing peiople in Iraq instead of trying to mediate peace. Some I’ve talked to even harbor the misguided notion that we should take all Muslims and people of Middle Eastern descent and quarantine them because they may be in league with the enemy.

I hate to say it but religious tolerance does not seem to exist in Western religions that i have seen. Some manage it but most in my experience are not.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=124811

 

[BobCatholic]

To a degree, everything is interpetation. Just because the Koran doesn’t mention “dirty bomb”,

So you are saying that an interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

This is the same error I see being made by many about the Bible as well.

 

[BobCatholic]

Have you ever read the Q’uran?

Yes I have.

Those who die in Jihad will go to the highest level of heaven and have 77 eternal virgins for his use at any time and be loved by Allah.

So show me where it says that flying an airplane into a building full of innocent people is the Jihad. Same thing for suicide bombings.

This is based on an INTERPRETATION of the Koran, not the Koran.

Now, unless you’re also claiming that an interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran like your friend over there…

 

[djamu]

I have to be very careful that I don’t become racist. I don’t want to be a racist. But I can’t understand some one finding glory in taking another human beings life. It is sick, their relationship with Americans. It gives me fear.

 

[Valke2]

So you are saying that an interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

This is the same error I see being made by many about the Bible as well.

No. I’m saying that everything that is written is subject to interpertation. I’m also saying that those who wage war on infidel’s seem to be following the intent of the Koran more than those who advocate a more liberal peaceful interpetation of the scripture.

 

[Valke2]

Yes I have.

So show me where it says that flying an airplane into a building full of innocent people is the Jihad. Same thing for suicide bombings.

This is based on an INTERPRETATION of the Koran, not the Koran.

Now, unless you’re also claiming that an interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran like your friend over there…

Show me in the bible where it says that one should establish a Crusade. Or show me in the Bible where it says it is necessary to have an Inquisition?

These are “interpetations” that were based on a fundamental belief that Jesus was Lord and anyone who believed differently was an enemy of good.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

These are “interpetations” that were based on a fundamental belief that Jesus was Lord and anyone who believed differently was an enemy of good.

No, they weren’t. And I know you have been given the names of several books, and several links, about the Crusades and the Inquisitions. And you really haven’t had the time to check them out unless you’re both a speed reader and have no life outside these forums.

For what seems like the millionth time, the Crusades were conceived of to halt the aggression of Muslims who had forcibly taken over lands and property and who were continuing on to take lands and property. Not because of ‘different belief and enemy of good’–else why would there not have been active warfare for centuries before? Islam had existed some 400 years before “the Crusades”, so if it was the ‘difference in belief’ that caused the crusades, why then–when the Christian world was actually far less strong than it had been previously?

And as for the Inquisitions, to address the Spanish Inquisition, this was not brought about because the Spaniards wanted to persecute those of ‘different beliefs’ but came because people who professed themselves to be Christian were actually lying about this. And it was the Spanish government who found those guilty, guilty. Compare, if you will, to the Quislings in Norway in World War 2, or to the Tories in American at the time of the Revolution. You have groups or individuals claiming to be one thing, yet acting or being another–and putting the other groups or peoples in danger too. And in 15th century Spain one lacked the luxury of today’s 500 year history of ‘tolerance’ and ‘diversity’, etc.

I’m not saying that individuals didn’t do wrong… .I’m sure they did. But the kind of thinking that leads to assumptions that because Sir Miles of Lincoln, or his serf Godwin; or Graf Jozef, or le Sieur de Bracy and his retinue (yes, they’re made up names), or King Philip or whoever did something wrong, that means the entire Crusades were done to do something wrong–well, that’s just sloppy thinking. Ex hoc ergo propter hoc. Wrong then, wrong now.

 

[BobCatholic]

Show me in the bible where it says that one should establish a Crusade. Or show me in the Bible where it says it is necessary to have an Inquisition?

Nowhere.

Crusades are an interpretation based on the moral teaching that one has the right to self-defense.

Inquisition is based on an interpretation of the verse giving the Church authority to judge disputes (Matthew 16:16, Matthew 18)

These are “interpetations” that were based on a fundamental belief that Jesus was Lord and anyone who believed differently was an enemy of good.

And these interpretations are not the same as the Bible being interpreted. If they were, they would be in the Bible and you could find me verses.

I’ll admit the verses are not there, because I know that an interpretation of the Bible is not the same as the Bible. Would you admit this as well?

 

[BobCatholic]

No. I’m saying that everything that is written is subject to interpertation. I’m also saying that those who wage war on infidel’s seem to be following the intent of the Koran more than those who advocate a more liberal peaceful interpetation of the scripture.

Who determines what is the “intent” of the Koran? Is this intent written down in the Koran? If not, that’s an interpretation.

So, the question is simple: Is an interpretation of the Koran the same as the Koran?

I would say “NO” because if it were, the interpretation would be written in the Koran.

 

[Valke2]

Who determines what is the “intent” of the Koran? Is this intent written down in the Koran? If not, that’s an interpretation.

So, the question is simple: Is an interpretation of the Koran the same as the Koran?

I would say “NO” because if it were, the interpretation would be written in the Koran.

Yes, it is written down in the Koran. But now we are just dancing in circles.

 

[BobCatholic]

For what seems like the millionth time, the Crusades were conceived of to halt the aggression of Muslims who had forcibly taken over lands and property and who were continuing on to take lands and property.

C’mon, logic and facts don’t convince those who are hell bent on hating religions

The hatred of religion is their religion

Now, let’s turn to the official book of hatred of religion, the ACLU training manual, page 16 and sing “God doesn’t exist, nyaa nyaa”

 

[BobCatholic]

Yes, it is written down in the Koran.

Good. Quote it for me please.

 

[Valke2]

Good. Quote it for me please.

I already have.

 

[BobCatholic]

I already have.

You didn’t quote the Koran that said what I was asking for.

You quoted parts of the Koran and INTERPRETED them to mean what I was asking for.

That’s not the same thing.

Are you saying your interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

Logically speaking, that cannot be true. If it were true, that interpretation would be written in the Koran then.

 

[Valke2]

You didn’t quote the Koran that said what I was asking for.

You quoted parts of the Koran and INTERPRETED them to mean what I was asking for.

That’s not the same thing.

Are you saying your interpretation of the Koran is the same as the Koran?

Logically speaking, that cannot be true. If it were true, that interpretation would be written in the Koran then.

I’m saying that the Koran says what it says and that seems to be sufficent for 10s or 100s of millions of muslims to believe that the West is evil and that one who dies fighting the west, dies for God and receives a greater reward. The Quotes I posted seem pretty clear to me. However, nothing that is written can ever be read without interpeting. So I’m not sure what you are trying to get out here.

 

[BobCatholic]

I’m saying that the Koran says what it says and that seems to be sufficent for 10s or 100s of millions of muslims to believe that the West is evil and that one who dies fighting the west, dies for God and receives a greater reward. The Quotes I posted seem pretty clear to me. However, nothing that is written can ever be read without interpeting. So I’m not sure what you are trying to get out here.

What I’m trying to get is that an interpretation of a document is not the same as the document being interpreted. If it were, that interpretation would be written in the document!

Whether it is the Koran, the bible, or whatever, this principle is the same.

When there are Islamonazis interpreting the Koran one way, that doesn’t mean that is what the Koran teaches (unless specifically written!) It is what the Islamonazis teach, not the koran’s teaching.

When the KKK goes around interpreting the Bible to allow lynching of blacks and hating one’s neighbor, that is not found in the Bible - is the Bible to blame? Of course not.