Religious movements and sobriety

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Magnanimity

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Hi all. I tried to search up my topic, but the search results kept bringing up “spiritual sobriety.” My question is this: what (if any) is the relationship between the spirituality advocated by Catholic religious orders/movements and the drinking of alcohol? As in, do most of the established orders (Benedictines, Franciscans, Dominicans, etc, etc) advocate as intrinsic to their spirituality the non-consumption of alcohol? As in, do they advocate full sobriety (teetotalerism) as part of the practice of the spirituality of the order?

I should mention that my question here lies outside of the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. I only want to know if, for the most part, the spiritual principles of Catholic religious orders have advocated against the recreational consumption of alcohol by their practitioners. Any references or reading you could pass along would be much appreciated!
 
In my order the preference is for wine at meals. It is an Italian order founded.
 
One thing to keep in mind, the American idea of “no recreational alcohol” comes from the American Protestant Temperance Movement. As that was a decidedly Anti-Catholic movement, one would not expect to see Catholic monasticism influenced by such thinking.
 
Some of the best beers in Europe - I daresay the World- are made by monastic orders. Trappists, Fransicans make beautiful beers.
I don’t think any order completely forbids the use of alcohol under any circumstance, so maybe a lay movement like the Pioneers, might be the clostest.
 
In my experience monastics typically maintain an impressive drinks cabinet.
 
Venerable Matt Talbot and his patronage

also the church usually only recommends abstinence if you have a problem.

but you could just not like it or be straightedge or whatever too.

seriously internet search venerable matt Talbot
 
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It always surprises me that we have sobriety discussions on a Catholic forum almost on a weekly basis. What am I missing?
 
Some people choose teetotaling as a spiritual path, like they might do extra fasts or practice minimalism.

It’s not demanded by the Church, and if it works for them, then that’s great!
 
jack63 said:
It always surprises me that we have sobriety discussions on a Catholic forum almost on a weekly basis. What am I missing?
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Thanks for the responses, everyone. Jack, as to your question, I have continued to hear stories on NPR like this one. I don’t see how this is a good trend. In the article, the author notes that in the last 3 decades of the 20th century, there was a tapering off of alcohol consumption—no increase in the aggregate. However, these last two decades have seen sharp increases in consumption (in the aggregate) which far outstrip population growth in the U.S. Probably from time immemorial, humans have anesthetized themselves by various means. So, the drinking of alcohol is never all that surprising. But a sharp increase might be a cause for concern.

But, that’s a specific issue. My question was more broad. I think about the lives of the saints here on Earth fairly often. And yes, I’m drawn to the dramatic ones—St Anthony of Egypt, Thomas Aquinas, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross—spiritual and intellectual masters. It’s hard for me to imagine them tipsy I guess. I wonder what being tipsy (anesthetizing oneself) has to do with the other principles that we often see in religious orders (eg, poverty, chastity, obedience, work, etc).

I understand what you’re getting at @TheLittleLady, but the statistics, at least in America, for being completely sober are relatively high. About 1 out of every 3 Americans self-reports drinking no alcohol whatsoever. And a little under half of Americans report drinking very little alcohol/month. This seems to track with global rates fairly closely. So, it isn’t as if plainly everyone is regularly consuming alcohol, and a person is an odd outlier if she doesn’t consume it herself.

For myself, every Lent and Advent I go completely dry. And if I had a bent toward being a heavy-drinker, I imagine I’d be a teetotaler. But that’s me—total regular guy, nobody Catholic. If I read the unfathomably deep spiritual insights of St Teresa of Avila, it’s difficult for me to imagine her penning those insights with a glass of red in her hand.

But maybe I’m missing something :man_shrugging:t2:
 
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If you are interested in Catholic teetotaling and abstinence movements, a good place to start is Father Theobald Mathew, who was big in Ireland. (The expression “take the pledge,” which is now used for drinking and texting, actually dates back to his movement.) There were all sorts of groups with all sorts of levels of temperance.

However, although individual Catholics may or should abstain totally from alcohol (and there was once a small branch of the Benedictine Order that practiced total abstinence, mostly as a way of giving a home to monks with alcohol problems), there is no way to have the Mass without real wine to transubstantiate, in however small a quantity.

And it is wrong to demonize alcohol, because Our Savior drank freely and did miracles of wine abundance. This was in keeping with Scripture and Messianic traditions among the Jewish people; the Messiah brings endless feasting and endless wine. Christian tradition taught clearly that Christ said (although it didn’t make it into the Gospels) that the grapes on the new earth would be huge and plentiful, and that the traditional abundance of wine would be there.

Concupiscence and fallen bodies make a lot of us unable to handle one or two common good things of life, or susceptible to illnesses and allergies associated with things that are wholesome and helpful to most people. The way to treat it is to abstain from those things or lessen their consumption, not to call them bad and make everybody skip them.
 
Re: specific questions about monastic lifestyles –

Different religious orders, in different times and places, have done things differently.

In Egypt and other desert areas, it would be stupid to drink a lot of alcohol on a daily basis. It doesn’t make sense as part of one’s diet, when one is hard-pressed to stay hydrated. The Desert Fathers usually ate small amounts of bread and drank small amounts of water, and did not vary their diet much or at all, even on holy days. They lived very regulated lives because their days were kept pretty free. (Other than working on palm-leaf woven products to support themselves.)

Eastern monks and nuns use the Eastern calendar, which has a fairly elaborate setup of times to abstain from or use oil, wine, milk, eggs, meat, etc. My impression is that a lot of Eastern folks do like the desert monks, and don’t have a lot of variation all year. (Baking really good bread is a big thing.) Many follow the desert tradition of never or seldom drinking alcohol. But they have Mass too, and vineyards are important to have around.

In most parts of Europe, however, storing grain or fruit in alcoholic, easily transportable form was a major part of the diet, and grew more important in the Renaissance, as water sources and sanitation slipped under population pressure. At the same time, the fasting calendar was relaxed, so that there were fewer times of abstinence, and one was allowed to use oil, eggs, butter, and other dairy products.

So basically, different orders did different things, based on the order’s spirituality, problems among monks or lack thereof, and the connotations of what was eaten and drunk.

Typically, most European religious orders did not eat meat except on holy days and Sundays – and a lot of this was about frugality and food preservation, as well as asceticism. (Neither did most laypeople, unless they had lots of cash.) Use of wine and beer might be only for holy days, or for every day, depending on asceticism or availability. St. Benedict was following the pattern of Roman military life (the prayer and work schedule is the same as the Legion’s watch schedule), so rations of alcohol were a thing.

(See Chapter 40 of the Rule of St. Benedict, where he permits “moderate” drinking every day, and is more concerned that people abstain totally from grumbling. As commentaries point out, the traditional Benedictine “moderate” is three glasses of wine/beer every day, although most ancient and medieval wine/beer was a bit less powerful than some of our varieties.)

But sick monks and nuns in very strict orders often were ordered to eat meat and drink unwatered wine or strong beer (along with other little-used foods), so that their bodies would be built back up. (Depending on their symptoms and body types, of course.)
 
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Most European religious orders did eat a fair number of chicken eggs, outside of Lent and Advent fasting, as well as dark bread, pulses and beans, greens, etc. A bowl of small beer, oatmeal stout, or sour-flavored beer was considered to be normal for meals (and healthy too), and often you dunked your bread in it. Wine was something more common in Mediterranean areas, for obvious grape reasons, and monks in ancient times often drank it watered. This was less common in medieval times. Either way, beer and wine were regarded as something of a “sports drink” when used in a reasonable fashion.

As for distilled liquor, monks either invented it, or took an Eastern science and spread it throughout Europe. Distillation increased the potency of alcohol and other herbal medicinal compounds. The resulting liquors were given names like “water of life” (“uisce beatha,” which became whiskey, as well as “aqua vitae,” which became akvavit), because they were helpful substances overall. Misuse and abuse should not eliminate helpful use.

But it wasn’t like monks and nuns were getting drunk, or even tipsy. (If they did, it was a serious offense against the rules, or an indicator of health problems.) They were drinking “for their stomach’s sake,” as a digestive and medicine, as well as ekeing out a few more calories and nutrients. It was normal to enjoy one’s small ration of wine or beer, just like it was normal to enjoy one’s lentils and bread.

So check your specific order, if you want to know.
 
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Thank you @Mintaka! That’s a lot of really good info. I really appreciate you taking the time.
 
@Mintaka …That was a great response as usual!
Magnanimity said:
But that’s me—total regular guy, nobody Catholic. If I read the unfathomably deep spiritual insights of St Teresa of Avila, it’s difficult for me to imagine her penning those insights with a glass of red in her hand.

But maybe I’m missing something :man_shrugging:t2:
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I don’t know if St. Teresa of Avila penned her insights with a glass or red or white. If she pinned her insights while drinking some wine, it would not bother me in the least. However, I will say that it is difficult to imagine her with a pint of beer in her hand…but who knows

Anyway, I’ve always liked the scripture below from Matthew 11:19
the Son of Man came eating and drinking , and they say, “Look, a glutton and a drunkard a friend of tax collectors and sinners!” Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds
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So important insights can be gained with a drink or two in your hand. It is nothing to be judged or looked down upon.
 
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Another great line in the book of Acts when the Apostles begin preaching and the crowd says:

“Don’t listen to them, they are drunk!”.

The reply was not “No, we are Christians and would not be drunk!!”, the reply was “It is too early in the day to be drunk!”.
 
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