Religious or Spiritual?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mrs_abbott
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

mrs_abbott

Guest
You know how people claim to be religious and others spiritual? I know you’re probably thinking of extremes like people who walk around saying “praise this, praise that” or hippies.
I’m talking about those people who claim to be a certain religion and others who just believe that some higher power has control over this crazy world.
I fall more on the spiritual side than religious side. Yes, I am Catholic but not a very good one. This is where I slide more towards spiritualism. Some might call it wandering aimlessly about and not really taking a stance but I prefer to look at it as being a good person while still soul-searching for religion and/or a deeper spirituality.
Does anyone else understand how I feel or am I alone on this?
 
You are not alone.

Even when you think you’re alone.

Especially when you think you are alone.😃
 
40.png
mrs_abbott:
You know how people claim to be religious and others spiritual? I know you’re probably thinking of extremes like people who walk around saying “praise this, praise that” or hippies.
I’m talking about those people who claim to be a certain religion and others who just believe that some higher power has control over this crazy world.
I fall more on the spiritual side than religious side. Yes, I am Catholic but not a very good one. This is where I slide more towards spiritualism. Some might call it wandering aimlessly about and not really taking a stance but I prefer to look at it as being a good person while still soul-searching for religion and/or a deeper spirituality.
Does anyone else understand how I feel or am I alone on this?
Click to expand...
Hello mrs abbott,

When I was a protestant I always viewed my Christianity as a spiritual discipline and not simply ritualistic or “religious”. I yearned later in life for the religious aspect to balance the spiritual aspect. To me, religious is a visible action and spirituality is invisible action. I think a balance of both is good.

I have soul-searched for the past several years and have always been a lover of truth, no matter where I found it. The problem comes when you find a new spiritual truth that seems to contradict your present knowledge of truth. I jumped ship recently into another faith and it has been a long struggle. I don’t recommend too much soul-searching.

Stay committed to a faith while exploring the various universal spiritual truths to be found. Just remember your compass.

Peace…
 
Living near the New Age People’s Republic of Boulder, Colorado, I run into people who spout this “Spirituality-not-Religion” palaver all the time. :banghead:

In my experience, such gobbledygook is usually no more than a cop-out for moral irresponsibility and intellectual laziness. :rolleyes:
 
40.png
tjmiller:
Living near the New Age People’s Republic of Boulder, Colorado, I run into people who spout this “Spirituality-not-Religion” palaver all the time. :banghead:
Click to expand...
Hey, isn’t that right next door to the Evangelical Fundamentalist Protestant Imperial Dominion of Colorado Springs, Colorado?🤓
 
Actually, the Springs is about an hour and a half south of Morkville - but when I used to live near the former, I would often hear, instead of the “spiritual” bit, "Have you received Jesus as your personalordnsavior? 😛
 
I can only speak for people I know who describe themselves as “spiritual, but not religious” and most of these are related to me in some way. When these people make that statement they convey to me by their manner and actions (and incessant criticism of my Catholic faith and practice) that they want the emotional satisfaction of meditation, burning incense, feeling at one with nature, gaia, the cosmos or whatever, and the feeling of superiority over both non-spiritual boors and over victims of oppression by the patriarchical Church.

they want the jollies of affirming the rightness of their own decisions and choices (no matter how wrong-headed and damaging they may be) without owing obedience or worship to Anyone greater than themselves. It seems to be a codeword for “I can make up my own religion, I don’t need yours.”
 
I guess my writing was taken out of context, or at least what I was getting at.
I believe there should be a nice balance of religion and spirituality. I was simply stating that my religious side was lacking currently and just wanting imput to see if any others ever went through this.
I just hate that there’s so much religious bickering and arguing about this and that. That drives me nuts! :mad:
I think this is why I’ve stayed away from the church lately. I’m sick of everyone saying that you’re not good enough and you need to try harder when really, it’s just not that easy for some.
When I come back to the Catholic Church, as a regular like I used to be, I want it to be because I know in my heart, mind and soul that it’s what’s best for me. I’m not going to go just to go. I think it’s a waste of time to do that and you’re hogging up spaces for those who might actually WANT to be there.
I challenge all of the Catholics out there who think that everyone who’s NOT Catholic or is Catholic but non-practicing, to walk a mile in THEIR shoes before judging them. Recite your bible and your catechism and sacred tradition all you want but be mindful that others can’t learn or understand that way and be mindful of that. Evangelizing is more than just preaching, it’s listening too and trying to understand that person, even if you don’t personally agree with them. 😉
 
40.png
mrs_abbott:
I think it’s a waste of time to do that and you’re hogging up spaces for those who might actually WANT to be there.
Click to expand...
May I ask why you don’t want to be there?
 
40.png
mrs_abbott:
I think it’s a waste of time to do that and you’re hogging up spaces for those who might actually WANT to be there.
Click to expand...
Well, at most of the masses I’ve been to recently there wasn’t exactly a SRO crowd, so I wouldn’t worry to much about hogging up space (unless you demand a whole wing for your entourage or something 😛 )

I see nothing wrong with people making up their own religions. If they can’t find one in the marketplace of ideas of practised religions, why not make one up? Note, that’s not to say that Catholics should practise another faith and still say they’re Catholic (or Baptists or whatnots). We live in a free society, as long as you’re not violating the penal codes (no human sacrifice, or illegal burning of leaves for instance), there is no reason why you can’t invent your own religion. In other words, we can expect our neighbours to follow the law, we can’t expect them to be moral.

Pax,
Amy
 
Mrs. A, I am sure that you really are not equating having your faith be based on feeling the personal satisfaction that it is “the best for me”. . .because that personally makes BOTH your “religion” and “spirituality” (and those two are not polar opposites nor mutually exclusive either) equal to the “column A” and “column B” of the old “chinese menu”. (I hesitate to say that it reminds me of the cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses based on what he or she FEELS deep down is RIGHT, because I think your searching is slightly different in that you seem pretty much wanting to have it all or nothing–if you can’t embrace it ALL you won’t have any, rather than taking bits and pieces) but overall I have to say that IMO you really cannot allow “feeling” or “emotion” to be the main criterion of whether or not you a faith, or parts thereof. Feelings are the LEAST reliable indices you can have when it comes to making just about ANY choice, because they are ephemeral (don’t last), multifactorial–based on lots of factors that themselves may change, and above all, especially in this particular time/society, are not likely to be balanced with reason and intellect.
 
There’s a few reasons:
1.) Hypocrits run rampid in the Catholic Churches I’ve been to. I’ve yet to find one where the majority there are NOT hypocrits. I recently moved to a smaller town so I’m going to try that Church there. I know there are hypocrits EVERYWHERE and in EVERY religion but I’ve never seen so many as I have in the Catholic Church.
2.) I’m having issues with the whole contraception thing. I am married and am currently talking to several priests I know about it. Each one of them has given me a slightly different answer. Hence why I kinda feel in limbo on the whole thing. I need to get this answered before I can receive the Eucharist and participate again.
3.) Scandals within the Church. I don’t know how many of them are true or not but it really takes a toll on how I feel about priests, as a whole. I know there’s bad apples EVERYWHERE but your Church and your Religion are part of your existence and you need stability with that.

I know these are MY reasons and I’m not expecting everyone to agree. I was just sharing.
 
I know Catholicism is ALL or NONE.
I don’t have all so I’m searching to see if I can find the rest of it or if I just need to get rid of it entirely and have none.
 
So you’re an intellectual that follows your religion numbly with no feelings?
I’m sure Jesus is disappointed. You show no emotion for him.
Tantum ergo:
Mrs. A, I am sure that you really are not equating having your faith be based on feeling the personal satisfaction that it is “the best for me”. . .because that personally makes BOTH your “religion” and “spirituality” (and those two are not polar opposites nor mutually exclusive either) equal to the “column A” and “column B” of the old “chinese menu”. (I hesitate to say that it reminds me of the cafeteria Catholic who picks and chooses based on what he or she FEELS deep down is RIGHT, because I think your searching is slightly different in that you seem pretty much wanting to have it all or nothing–if you can’t embrace it ALL you won’t have any, rather than taking bits and pieces) but overall I have to say that IMO you really cannot allow “feeling” or “emotion” to be the main criterion of whether or not you a faith, or parts thereof. Feelings are the LEAST reliable indices you can have when it comes to making just about ANY choice, because they are ephemeral (don’t last), multifactorial–based on lots of factors that themselves may change, and above all, especially in this particular time/society, are not likely to be balanced with reason and intellect.
Click to expand...
 
Well said, Amy. That’s why we live in a country that bases its government and society on Freedom of Religion! 😉
40.png
a_cermak:
Well, at most of the masses I’ve been to recently there wasn’t exactly a SRO crowd, so I wouldn’t worry to much about hogging up space (unless you demand a whole wing for your entourage or something 😛 )

I see nothing wrong with people making up their own religions. If they can’t find one in the marketplace of ideas of practised religions, why not make one up? Note, that’s not to say that Catholics should practise another faith and still say they’re Catholic (or Baptists or whatnots). We live in a free society, as long as you’re not violating the penal codes (no human sacrifice, or illegal burning of leaves for instance), there is no reason why you can’t invent your own religion. In other words, we can expect our neighbours to follow the law, we can’t expect them to be moral.

Pax,
Amy
Click to expand...
 
40.png
a_cermak:
I see nothing wrong with people making up their own religions. If they can’t find one in the marketplace of ideas of practised religions, why not make one up?
Click to expand...
That’s called relativism. 😦 In the extreme!
 
40.png
mrs_abbott:
Hypocrits run rampid in the Catholic Churches I’ve been to. I’ve yet to find one where the majority there are NOT hypocrits. I recently moved to a smaller town so I’m going to try that Church there. I know there are hypocrits EVERYWHERE and in EVERY religion but I’ve never seen so many as I have in the Catholic Church.
Click to expand...
Hate the sin, not the sinner.
 
40.png
mrs_abbott:
You know how people claim to be religious and others spiritual? I know you’re probably thinking of extremes like people who walk around saying “praise this, praise that” or hippies.
I’m talking about those people who claim to be a certain religion and others who just believe that some higher power has control over this crazy world.
I fall more on the spiritual side than religious side. Yes, I am Catholic but not a very good one. This is where I slide more towards spiritualism. Some might call it wandering aimlessly about and not really taking a stance but I prefer to look at it as being a good person while still soul-searching for religion and/or a deeper spirituality.
Does anyone else understand how I feel or am I alone on this?
Click to expand...
Hello Mrs Abbott;

I had a period of time in my life where I saw the situation much like you describe. For a long while I went to church but received no emotional satisfaction from the experience. I felt only an obligation (not a longing) to attend mass, and there was no joy in the experience. I felt that I was a “spiritual” person, but there was little connection between my “spiritual” side and my participation in the sacraments. That all began to change when I was forced to confront some pretty outlandish anti-catholic claims written in a tract that was left on my car windshield. I began a long process of studying the roots of the Catholic faith, its history and its direct connection to God through Christ. This, for me reestalished the holiness, the sacredness, of the experience of mass and the other sacraments as well.

Perhaps familiarity is what caused me to become dulled to the beauty, the truly magnificent and awesome event that takes place in the mass. We as Catholics tend to lose our sense of wonder and awe because of the repetition involved with the mass and other sacraments. IMHO there is real danger in that sense of familiarity. We have to make an effort to approach the mass and the sacraments with a sense of wonder - a sense of awe that we have a God who took the form of a man to come here and give us these spiritual gifts. Not just the sacraments, but the Church itself - to each of us His children, because He loves us with a deep and never-ending love.

If you are trying to be more spiritual, try to recover that childlike (not childish) sense of awe and wonder. You will then see that there is no dichotomy between secular and holy, no distinction between “religious” and “spiritual.” God is everywhere. He is present in the Liturgy, present at work, present when you are at home doing the laundry.

My other thought on the matter of “spirituality” v. “religion” is that as the terms are commonly used, the idea is a false dichotomy. “Spirituality” to most people means a sense of “connectedness” to the presence of God in our life. Participation in Liturgy (i.e. what most people mean when they talk about “religion” in contradiction to “spirituality”) can be a rich part of one’s spirituality. I think what many are concerned of is the notion that one may come to believe that simply “going through the motions” can replace the living of a truly spiritual life. That is a danger, I agree, but it is not a necessary result of taking part in Liturgy. To the contrary, when properly understood and appreciated with the awe and wonder to which they are due, a life that is rich in the Liturgy of the Church allows one to grow in their spiritual life to a great degree. So, I reject the notion that one cannot be both “religious” and “spiritual.” Both should be a healthy part of one’s life.

Just my two cents. :twocents:

-Peace
 
How many other churches have you BEEN to, anyway? 😃

Now, I don’t want to get too personal, but I’ve read your reasons, and quite honestly (just my opinion, and not to be critical, but only to state what I have simply DEDUCED from your posts), it appears to me that much of what you object to stems from your personal difficulties in some “hot button” topics. That being so, it would be only natural that you would be interested in finding out exactly what the Church teaches on those topics. That is excellent and I commend it.

But it is also natural that (considering that you at least disagree with some of these, and given the chance would disobey some or all of them, even if taught by the Church, if you felt you could “reasonably” do so), you would be looking for ways to discount the Church. Finding its members to be such “hypocrites” you might feel that you could safely discount the Church because if it were REALLY good, it wouldn’t allow its members to be such jerks. (Except, you know, Jesus Himself chose 12 apostles, and we all know that one of them–hey, that is over 8%!–betrayed him, and that of the remaining 11, 100% abandoned him at his trial. Yet, of those 11 HYPOCRITES, 10 of them–over 90%–were martyred for the man they betrayed, and the 1 who lived wrote a gospel and other sacred writings which have been TESTIMONY for the man he betrayed).

I wish that you would read C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters”. He has a marvelous passage where the young man who has recently become a Christian starts to chafe about the “hypocrites” in his church, and wonder about them. . .never realizing that he himself, being no better than they, is the real hypocrite by thinking that he deserves “better fellow worshippers”.

P.S. May God forgive you for your uncharitable remark to me. I forgive you.
 
Personally, if I had to pick one or the other, I would rather have religion without spirituality, than spirituality without religion.

At least with the Catholic Religion, I have Christ’s unfailing assurance of the fulness of divine truth and of the means of holiness and salvation - even if I don’t happen to be “spurchally into it” at some given moment.

Religion can provide a satisfying home for both the heart and the mind, while spirituality may be content to satisfy only the heart. Religion gives us community, while spirituality can be merely self-absorbed. Religion is stable, definite, dependable and objective. Mere spirituality is subjective, relative, fluctuate, and vague.

If one doesn’t stand up for something, one will fall for anything.

BTW, mrsabbott - please don’t think for a moment that I intended to compare you to those Clowns in Boulder. :whacky:
I was simply reflecting on my personal experience of some of the issues you raise. God bless your journey.

Fides quarens intellectum!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top