Religious Philosophy Is Just a Waste of Time - Change My View

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IanAG said:
I mean, if Jesus chose seven fishermen and a tax collector amongst His disciples, how complicated can his message be.
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The Lord does not call the qualified; He qualifies those he calls. His words may seem plain and simple, but they are very deep and nuanced. Theologians and philosophers have been unpacking His word for to millennia and don’t appear to be anywhere near done.
 
MikeInVA said:
His words may seem plain and simple, but they are very deep and nuanced. Theologians and philosophers have been unpacking His word for to millennia and don’t appear to be anywhere near done.
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Mhmm. Plenty of heresies have cropped up over the life of the Church, heresies that were answered with the help of “lofty” philosophy and theology.
 
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Just imagine if only we’d put all that effort into feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, etc. How much more we could have achieved?

No wonder Brother Francis wouldn’t allow his brothers to have books.
 
I think you have it backwards. The works of mercy spiritually benefit the person who performs them. Feeding the hungry will not get them in to heaven.
 
IanAG said:
Just imagine if only we’d put all that effort into feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, etc. How much more we could have achieved?

No wonder Brother Francis wouldn’t allow his brothers to have books.
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Thank goodness that others folks studied the philosophy that Brother Francis later took up in his lifetime. Questions on religion, the meaning of life and about God cannot all (or even mostly) be answered with science; they’re philosophical questions.

We as humans need to be able to answer those questions just as much as we need to be able to clothe and feed and care. Thank goodness we can do both. 😉
 
IanAG said:
No wonder Brother Francis wouldn’t allow his brothers to have books.
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Raxus said:
Thank goodness that others folks studied the philosophy that Brother Francis later took up in his lifetime. Questions on religion, the meaning of life and about God cannot all (or even mostly) be answered with science; they’re philosophical questions.

We as humans need to be able to answer those questions just as much as we need to be able to clothe and feed and care. Thank goodness we can do both. 😉
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It should also be mentioned that St. Francis and St. Dominic were both very good friends during their lifetimes. We Dominicans call him “Holy Father St. Francis”: we hold him in esteem, and his Franciscan spirituality does not conflict with ours. It’s actually complementary.

Picture this: A Dominican and a Franciscan looking at a forest. The Dominican could talk any the symbolism of the sun (God) giving light to the trees (us), how the rings can correspond to holiness, how the ecosystem is interwoven, etc. The Franciscan can take all of this information and be given more reasons to praise God for His wonderful creation, and to remind the Dominican to appreciate the tree as a tree, and that God’s creation is very beautiful.

The Franciscans have their role, and we have ours. And neither would dare to say theirs is better than the other.
 
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Fauken said:
It should also be mentioned that St. Francis and St. Dominic were both very good friends during their lifetimes. We Dominicans call him “Holy Father St. Francis”: we hold him in esteem, and his Franciscan spirituality does not conflict with ours. It’s actually complementary.

Picture this: A Dominican and a Franciscan looking at a forest. The Dominican could talk any the symbolism of the sun (God) giving light to the trees (us), how the rings can correspond to holiness, how the ecosystem is interwoven, etc. The Franciscan can take all of this information and be given more reasons to praise God for His wonderful creation, and to remind the Dominican to appreciate the tree as a tree, and that God’s creation is very beautiful.

The Franciscans have their role, and we have ours. And neither would dare to say theirs is better than the other.
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Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir here. I was close to joining the SFO for a long time, and studied both them and some of the other orders in equal measure; all facets of the same Church, and it’s damned well beautiful. (If things had been able to work out differently in terms of physical ability, I’d totally be one of the SFO by now.)
 
Raxus said:
Believe me, you’re preaching to the choir here. I was close to joining the SFO for a long time, and studied both them and some of the other orders in equal measure; all facets of the same Church, and it’s damned well beautiful. (If things had been able to work out differently in terms of physical ability, I’d totally be one of the SFO by now.)
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Yup! It is very beautiful. To steal a quote from St. Therese and modify it, if all religious Orders were Franciscan, the Church would lose some of her loveliness.
 
Fauken said:
Yup! It is very beautiful. To steal a quote from St. Therese and modify it, if all religious Orders were Franciscan, the Church would lose some of her loveliness.
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Indeed. I’ve always had a call to the Franciscan way, and my Mom was part of the Carmelites. Something for everyone, as it were.
 
IanAG said:
I wonder if religious philosophy is not just a waste of time and driven purely by the false self’s need to be right.

Aren’t some things meant to be a mystery which requires trust? Where does Jesus teach that we should spend our time and energy developing abstract thoughts about God rather than loving our neighbour?
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Nonbeliever here. The philosophy is a way to explain and flesh out the faith in a rational way. “Loving our neighbor”? Absolutely, that’s sounds great. Let’s all do this! But why does a belief in God, specifically the Christian God come into play in your opinion? That’s where the philosophy piece comes in.
 
Theology is certainly an important part of the Christian faith. The Church Fathers and subsequent theologians helped formulate what we believe as Eastern and Western Christian.

However, theology and secular philosophy fly right over my head.

I read works of secular philosophy in college. Plato was fairly easy for me. But Aristotle? No way.

Story of a Soul revolutionized my faith.
I tried to read Summa Theologica. And I couldn’t begin to understand it.

I need the sacraments, the scriptures, the teachings of the church, and lives of the saints to inform my faith.
 
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I need the sacraments, the scriptures, the teachings of the church, and lives of the saints to inform my faith
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That’s how I feel.

Julian of Norwich placed a lot of emphasis on trusting the teaching of what she called Holy Mother Church.

For us simple folks that sounds like a good way forward.
 
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IanAG said:
That’s how I feel.

Julian of Norwich placed a lot of emphasis on trusting the teaching of what she called Holy Mother Church.

For us simple folks that sounds like a good way forward.
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Having a rich philosophical tradition in no way conflicts with that. Nor would any Catholic philosopher say to not trust the teachings of the Church, or not to base our faith in the Sacraments, Scriptures, etc. It’s complementary: it helps.
 
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‘In that day of judgment persevering patience will count more than all the power in this world; simple
obedience will be exalted above all worldly cleverness; a good and clean conscience will gladden
the heart of man far more than the philosophy of the learned; and contempt for riches will be of
more weight than every treasure on earth.’ - The Imitation of Christ
 
Much fruit has been produced by thinkers in the Church, better understanding of the faith which she has benefited by and disseminated through her teachings where she recognizes the value. We don’t all need to participate in philosophical and theological pondering but should let those with that gift utilize it.

“Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.“ 1 Pet 4:10
 
Thank you to everyone who has contributed. I’m sorry that I was deliberately confrontational but I did so to tease out answers and alternative points of view. Your posts have really helped me to shape my thinking.

Just to explain, I have come to a point in life where physical and mental illness mean I can no longer work, and given my Franciscan vocation I feel called to study and prayer.

I enjoy philosophical discussion and metaphysics, but sadly I have to be very careful of the extent to which I engage in these because of my severe mental illness - I can become too intense and in some ways I then grow distant from God rather than closer.

It strikes me that I can rejoice in and celebrate those great minds that have and continue to enlighten us in our knowledge of God. Religious philosophy has definitely not been a waste of time!

For my own part it seems that a sensible path would be to engage lightly in these areas whilst falling back on the teachings of the Church in matters which are beyond me. I must be humble and recognise my limitations, and accept the fact that far greater minds than I have already explored these big questions.

At the same time I can devote more time to prayer and contemplation.

I think fhansens quote summed it up…
“ Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace in its various forms.“ 1 Pet 4:10
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Thanks again for your help in clarifying things in my own mind.

Blessings,

Ian
 
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