Religious tolerance vs Religious liberty

  • Thread starter Thread starter lucybeebee
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
parvenu74 said:
By no means does
rr1213: Since you want to argue this in US law, let’s do it. In Schenck v. United States the court held that freedom of speech is not absolute (or as Justice Holmes put it: freedom of speech is not the freedom to yell “fire” in a crowded theater). Freedom cannot ever be absolute, and this is true in both the legal and moral domains. We absolutely have free wills given to us by God, but we don’t have the right to do whatever we please. Our free wills were given to us in order to freely seek out the best means by which to know, love, and serve God in this life so that we can be happy with Him in the next. It’s all about salvation – we were created for God and if we don’t save our souls we will forever be a contradiction in purpose: a creature created for his God but forever separated from him by the willful turning of the creature away from God.

This is pretty basic Catholic teaching, rr1213. I suspect the bigger reason for our complete lack of agreement has to do with the fact that we don’t profess the same creed. Your beliefs, as you are expressing them, are completely in line with protestant thinking, which is repugnant to Catholic teaching (Martin Luther was excommunicated for a reason). God wants everyone to be with Him in heaven, and I fervently hope and pray for everyone to respond to the graces God gives them in order to save their souls.
Click to expand...
By no means does Schenck v. United States stand for the proposition that the government has the right to suppress the free exercise of religion. If you think that what you are advocating is justified by this case you either have not read it or you are unable to understand the Court’s reasoning. But hey, as I said, it’s a free country. You can believe whatever nonsense you want to believe and, if you ever obtain power I suppose I’ll have to believe whatever nonsense you believe also. That is not the way of Christ and it is not the way of your Church either.
 
rr1213 said:
No one in this thread has said that the majority is infallible. Majority rule is quite fallable.
Click to expand...
And therefore in error or even unjust from the viewpoint or “conscience” of restraint of fee-will by those who dissent. So if that rule gets upheld by the Supreme Ct. you have just arrived at what you deny occurs in America.
Nothing prevents the citizens of a democracy from passing laws that affect morals.
Click to expand...
That’s my whole point. The discrimination in these American laws, for better or worse, IS discrimination which you appear to abhor.
But moral laws are either grounded in the whim of the majority (American), or in their Creator (Catholic view).

Again, is there a true religion or not?
Same question I asked before. Remember?
Because if there is, it HAS CONSEQUENCES in the Moral order for government whose authority is vested by God, the head of all authority, be it chosen by the instrument of popular vote or monarchy or something in between.
We cannot get passed the FACT that Moral-related Laws are either relative to the wishes of the govt. (no matter how elected/chosen) or to God.
You must choose one or the other. In either case they will be there.
Now, about the moral discrimination on Polygamy?
 
TNT said:
And therefore in error or even unjust from the viewpoint or “conscience” of restraint of fee-will by those who dissent. So if that rule gets upheld by the Supreme Ct. you have just arrived at what you deny occurs in America.
Click to expand...
Hey, the Supreme Court has a Catholic majority–5/9 Justices. Go ahead and take over. The coast is clear…

Oh, wait. Darn.

Those Catholic Justices are the ones who, for the most part, are actually upholding the law, instead of making it. Who ***respect ***the ***God-given ***liberties that are guaranteed by our Constitution. Justices Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito. Whatever happened to Justice Kennedy?
 
rr1213 said:
Hey, the Supreme Court has a Catholic majority–5/9 Justices. Go ahead and take over. The coast is clear…

Oh, wait. Darn.

Those Catholic Justices are the ones who, for the most part, are actually upholding the law, instead of making it. Who ***respect ***the ***God-given ***liberties that are guaranteed by our Constitution. Justices Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito. Whatever happened to Justice Kennedy?
Click to expand...
Now, yur gettin it, to-be-brother!angelqueen.org
 
rr1213 said:
Hey, the Supreme Court has a Catholic majority–5/9 Justices. Go ahead and take over. The coast is clear…

Oh, wait. Darn.

Those Catholic Justices are the ones who, for the most part, are actually upholding the law, instead of making it. Who ***respect ***the ***God-given ***liberties that are guaranteed by our Constitution. Justices Roberts, Scalia, Thomas and Alito. Whatever happened to Justice Kennedy?
Click to expand...
Ah, a Justice is sworn to uphold the Laws of the Land aka constitution. They do not swear to uphold Catholic Morality in the exercise of their duties.
However, the original constitution & the laws based on it for many years were nearly = in Morality to the Catholic Morality.
Lucky you.
That’s why those Catholic Justices have no qualms upholding the Constitution.
Now, if there ever got to be another vote on Roe v Wade with this group, you’d see the Catholic Morality shine through on interpreting.
Just FYI,
Freemasons ran the Majority bench for about 80 years. You’ve seen their interpretations.
Historically, across the nation, Catholic Conservatives have been the most outstanding Jurists…my very first prejudicial sentence.
Now if we could ever get one into the White house.
First order of business:
All Qurans at Gitmo will be donated to alternative fuel.
Replaced by the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Catechism and a NT bible. Classes begin at 6am after 5am Mass and end promptly at 6pm.http://bestsmileys.com/religous/3.gif
Fish on Friday…Fasting optional.
Oh, and Rosary after Mass, Angelus at noon & sunset.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top