Religious Tolerance

[Pug]

I was thinking that tolerence is hurt by large groups of a single type of sinner changing. For example, if the Denomination of Denominons states that anyone who feels that Frogs are acceptable sexual partners are not sinning, and all the frog lovers go there, other denominations that see frog-love as evil may start calling that entire denomination sinful.

Even without there being evidence of a mass exodus of people to a certain denomination, I have seen members of a group have distaste for a denomination because that denomination approves of something that the group thinks is a sin. Though, if one group were attracting sinners of a set type, it could seem to some like that group was a type of ghetto for bad people. I think this perception could spill over onto other members of that group, even those who don’t sin in that particular way.

Personally, I can find it hard to accept people who think mass forced sterilization is a good way to “handle” the poor. If confronted with a whole group that thought that way, I’d probably struggle to be tolerant. I’d struggle even more if they were actively proselytizing in my neighborhood.

 

[Steven_John]

I agree. I have said before that if the only way that you can feel the presence of God in your life is as a {insert here}, thenplease stay a {insert here}.

I do have a question for everyone on this thread. Let’s say that you feel a certain way about a certain act that your faith calls a sin. Do you think that it is acceptable for you to leave your faith to find one that condones it? Further, does it weaken the ability of others ot have religious tolerance when people leave not because of religious or theological issues but because they do not want to feel guilty about a sin?

Yes,
if a person discerned that Gods guidance for them is against or not for what they see in the faith community they share with, they are obligated to discern if God wants them to stay and effect change, stay and live with the difference or seek a community they have like beliefs with.

Any one who tells me that God guides them to the path they are taking and it is not guided by men or darkness is kool with me.
Their path will not be against mine if the above is true so i will go further and support them if called to.

No,
if you have anything good it comes from The Father, so other peoples actions will have nil effect. If one feels an effect one should consider if their previous position was guided by God.

For ME
God is all powerful, those that follow in His way will always be triumphant. If two or three gather and pray in the name of salvation their prayers that are in line with Gods will, will be granted.
If my faith community was losing numbers it would be of our own being away from the above statements.

 

[Lapell]

Yes. No.

Let me give you an example. One of the reasons I left RC is that I disagree on the birth control issue. I gave it a great deal of thought, studied the issues (IOW, didn’t just willy nilly leave). I did not do it because I don’t want to feel guilty about sin because I don’t believe it is a sin.

The thing about religion belief is that it is subjective. I think that’s because we are all different, from different backgrounds, different cultures, etc. What works for some will not work for all. I think this is part of God’s plan. As long as our “religion” doesn’t inringe upon the rights of others, then it should be respected.

Hum! Go tell God about it, and I’m not so sure He will agree with you there!!!

 

[Lapell]

And actually, the Magisterium teaching of the Catholic Church is one with the teaching of Jesus Christ Himself, and so if you refer to methods of birth control other than abstinence from sex (birth control pills, for instance), you are actually not open to life the way intended by God Himself and also you may do harm to your reproductive system as a side effect of the contraception pills.
If you get an operation in order not to have babies, you are not open to giving life the way God intended it. Usually, fortunately, those operations can be reversed. But still, that’s certainly not the way God intended it!

 

[Swan]

And actually, the Magisterium teaching of the Catholic Church is one with the teaching of Jesus Christ Himself, and so if you refer to methods of birth control other than abstinence from sex (birth control pills, for instance), you are actually not open to life the way intended by God Himself and also you may do harm to your reproductive system as a side effect of the contraception pills.
If you get an operation in order not to have babies, you are not open to giving life the way God intended it. Usually, fortunately, those operations can be reversed. But still, that’s certainly not the way God intended it!

As this is the non-Catholic religions section of the forum, I’ll point out that this is simply your interpretation, and that of the RC. It is purely subjective as is all religion. I disagree as do millions of other people. The idea of freedom of religion is that we let the individual decide and leave it up to them and God. I have no problem with this. You work it out when you die, I’ll do the same.

 

[Lilyflower]

As this is the non-Catholic religions section of the forum, I’ll point out that this is simply your interpretation, and that of the RC. It is purely subjective as is all religion. I disagree as do millions of other people. The idea of freedom of religion is that we let the individual decide and leave it up to them and God. I have no problem with this. You work it out when you die, I’ll do the same.

So if all religion is ‘purely subjective’ so long as I can justify something to myself then it is ok. No need for the Catholic Church to be breathing down my neck telling me what I must or must not do then?

Ok, I get it. Yes I agree! Thank heavens someone is talking sense!

I do not like my next door neighbour. He is the most disagreeable fellow you could ever wish to meet. He does damage to both my property and my reputation. Frankly I think it would be better for me if he was dead. So I shall kill him. I can justify that.

A former manager lied and cheated on me and set my up for dismissal. I lost my job, my wife and my home. I think that guy too deserves to die. I can justify that to myself. So seeings religion is subjective: will bump him off too!

Now that I think about it I can think of all kinds of folk who have done me a lot of harm who surely deserve to be injured in some way so that they feel the pain I feel. So, I will greviously hurt them. I can justify that to my conscience too.

The fact the Catholic Church keeps pontificating on the Objective teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ: If you have a grievance against anyone, forgive him’ Mk 11: 25 and ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another’ Jn 15:17. I can ignore this on the basis that religion is subjective and I think God will understand why I need to seek revenge!

Thanks for the clarity

Blessings and peace

 

[Swan]

So if all religion is ‘purely subjective’ so long as I can justify something to myself then it is ok. No need for the Catholic Church to be breathing down my neck telling me what I must or must not do then?

Ok, I get it. Yes I agree! Thank heavens someone is talking sense!

I do not like my next door neighbour. He is the most disagreeable fellow you could ever wish to meet. He does damage to both my property and my reputation. Frankly I think it would be better for me if he was dead. So I shall kill him. I can justify that.

A former manager lied and cheated on me and set my up for dismissal. I lost my job, my wife and my home. I think that guy too deserves to die. I can justify that to myself. So seeings religion is subjective: will bump him off too!

Now that I think about it I can think of all kinds of folk who have done me a lot of harm who surely deserve to be injured in some way so that they feel the pain I feel. So, I will greviously hurt them. I can justify that to my conscience too.

The fact the Catholic Church keeps pontificating on the Objective teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ: If you have a grievance against anyone, forgive him’ Mk 11: 25 and ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another’ Jn 15:17. I can ignore this on the basis that religion is subjective and I think God will understand why I need to seek revenge!

Thanks for the clarity

Blessings and peace

If you are going to attempt to point out the errors of others it might serve you better if you actually read all the posts in a threat by the poster you are referring to, otherwise you end up making some errors yourself. In my previous post on this thread I said that we should be able to practice our relgion as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others. So suggesting I advocated the killing of folks we don’t like in the name of religion proves that you didn’t read my post. I’ll stop here since you probably won’t read this either.

 

[Lilyflower]

If you are going to attempt to point out the errors of others it might serve you better if you actually read all the posts in a threat by the poster you are referring to, otherwise you end up making some errors yourself. In my previous post on this thread I said that we should be able to practice our relgion as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others. So suggesting I advocated the killing of folks we don’t like in the name of religion proves that you didn’t read my post. I’ll stop here since you probably won’t read this either.

My dear Swan I have read this. I have had my say and I respect you rright to have your say also.

I am using the analogy to show that I am actually not hurting anyone. In the analogy, the death of the harmful ones protects more innocent. Thus subjectively, it is for the greater good. The means justify the ends.

So too preventing a life is to deny that life the right to exist. That can hardly be described as ‘not interfering with the rights of others’. I suggest that to prevent a life from ever occuring is worse than extinguishing one that has for a short time existed.

Either both are wrong or both are right. There is no middle way however subjective you try to be about it. The objective reality remains: both deprive a being and potential being of the right to life.
Blessings and peace

 

[Lapell]

As this is the non-Catholic religions section of the forum, I’ll point out that this is simply your interpretation, and that of the RC. It is purely subjective as is all religion. I disagree as do millions of other people. The idea of freedom of religion is that we let the individual decide and leave it up to them and God. I have no problem with this. You work it out when you die, I’ll do the same.

Hum! Dear Swan, there IS such a thing as objective truth, even if you want to believe the contrary. Not just in maths (2 and 2 are 4 and that’s always the case, isn’t it?)…
If someone says that God doesn’t exist in a case where God does, it won’t make Him cease to exist, will it? And if God doesn’t, the fact that many people still believe in His existence won’t change a thing (if He doesn’t exist), will it?

 

[Lapell]

Isn’t it a wonderful thing that in maths there exist absolute, objective truths?

 

[bobzills]

Isn’t it a wonderful thing that in maths there exist absolute, objective truths?

But in mathematics there is fuzzy math and there is probabilistic hypothesis testing, where you don’t arrive at the absolute certainty of some proposition, but you arrive at a certain probability that it may be true.

 

[Swan]

Hum! Dear Swan, there IS such a thing as objective truth, even if you want to believe the contrary. Not just in maths (2 and 2 are 4 and that’s always the case, isn’t it?)…
If someone says that God doesn’t exist in a case where God does, it won’t make Him cease to exist, will it? And if God doesn’t, the fact that many people still believe in His existence won’t change a thing (if He doesn’t exist), will it?

You’d think that if this were true people would be able to agree on just what it is (objective truth). Perhaps the objective truth is that everything is relative, there is no black and white, only shades of grey. Maybe it’s that we are each on our own path to enlightenment and we should respect this fact unless it encroaches on our own rights to do the same. You seem to have a real problem with the concept of letting others find God/god in their own way as long as you are free to do the same (and, again, no one else’s rights are violated). Be that through Buddhism, Shamanism, or whatever.

 

[Steven_John]

So if all religion is ‘purely subjective’ so long as I can justify something to myself then it is ok. No need for the Catholic Church to be breathing down my neck telling me what I must or must not do then?

Ok, I get it. Yes I agree! Thank heavens someone is talking sense!

I do not like my next door neighbour. He is the most disagreeable fellow you could ever wish to meet. He does damage to both my property and my reputation. Frankly I think it would be better for me if he was dead. So I shall kill him. I can justify that.

A former manager lied and cheated on me and set my up for dismissal. I lost my job, my wife and my home. I think that guy too deserves to die. I can justify that to myself. So seeings religion is subjective: will bump him off too!

Now that I think about it I can think of all kinds of folk who have done me a lot of harm who surely deserve to be injured in some way so that they feel the pain I feel. So, I will greviously hurt them. I can justify that to my conscience too.

The fact the Catholic Church keeps pontificating on the Objective teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ: If you have a grievance against anyone, forgive him’ Mk 11: 25 and ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another’ Jn 15:17. I can ignore this on the basis that religion is subjective and I think God will understand why I need to seek revenge!

Thanks for the clarity

Blessings and peace

Peace be unto you,
Life is many trials so we can learn.
assuming you do not bare false witness you may like to reflect on you maybe in the wrong "religion’ or have a false god image.
Your life has a lot of hardship but i feel it should not be so for you.
My prayer life tells me something is wrong in your post.
Maybe you need to pray for some of these persons around you.
I dont know the meaning of “subjective” but please pray lots before you hurt anyone.
I know the bible teaches and eye for and eye is legal but for me forgiveness is better, it maybe so for you.
I pray you have peace

 

[Steven_John]

i have read some more posts and am now quite confused.
If you believe that the greater good will be served then i guess you maybe justified in killing.

David (PBWH) slew galioth and he was in right relationship with God.

But i beg you now read Jesus (PBWH) and legion, this is in right relationship with God and is FOR ME a better way.

If after much reflection on what i offer, much prayer to GOD ALONE no picking your own intercessors, you are guided killing is the only way to bring about the greater good. May God have mercy on you.

PS SERIOUSLY ARE YOU IN THE RIGHT RELIGION???

 

[planten]

Since the subject is tolerance, Please answer me. There are many religions. Which religion mentions religious tolerance? Which religion teaches tolerance, i.e. teaches against compulsion. Please indicate from the scripture. Thanks.

 

[Steven_John]

Since the subject is tolerance, Please answer me. There are many religions. Which religion mentions religious tolerance? Which religion teaches tolerance, i.e. teaches against compulsion. Please indicate from the scripture. Thanks.

Peace be unto you and yours,
I am no scholar so am of little value to this world.

I cant quote for you but testify i have read with my eyes a translation of the Quran that states there is no compulsion in religion.

In the bible i have read the first beings disobeyed God and were still blessed by Him.

In both, my own interpretation is that while there is no compulsion there are consequences for our choices.

May God guide us all as so He wills

 

[ralphinal]

Since the subject is tolerance, Please answer me. There are many religions. Which religion mentions religious tolerance? Which religion teaches tolerance, i.e. teaches against compulsion. Please indicate from the scripture. Thanks.

I know this one. It is the same religion that teaches that male apostates are to be executed.

 

[ralphinal]

We seem to have two different opinions of my question, which is not surprising.

First, we have those who hold that some things are sins and it is our duty to fight against the desire to commit them in our own lives. The other side holds that there are some things that are sins, and some things that are sins to some people, but not all.

Is this an accurate statement based on this thread?

Now, to those who feel that somethign is not a sin when their denomination teaches that it is, is it accurate to say that it is acceptable to you to find a new church?

Again, I would ask the question, where does it end? Jonestown? A Branch Davidian compound? These people rationalized serious sin into virtue. If there is a God, and GOd is all good, there HAVE to be things that God finds offensive no matter what we think about them. There is no way around it at all.

 

[Lapell]

You’d think that if this were true people would be able to agree on just what it is (objective truth). Perhaps the objective truth is that everything is relative, there is no black and white, only shades of grey. Maybe it’s that we are each on our own path to enlightenment and we should respect this fact unless it encroaches on our own rights to do the same. You seem to have a real problem with the concept of letting others find God/god in their own way as long as you are free to do the same (and, again, no one else’s rights are violated). Be that through Buddhism, Shamanism, or whatever.

Still, no matter what, 2 and 2 will ALWAYS make 4! No matter what! Nobody can make it be otherwise. If one miscalculates, too bad, the right answer will ALWAYS be 4! You may wish it make 5 instead, but it ALWAYS will make 4! that’s an absolute truth, and you can deny it, but still you can’t change it, can you?

 

[Lapell]

You’d think that if this were true people would be able to agree on just what it is (objective truth). Perhaps the objective truth is that everything is relative, there is no black and white, only shades of grey. Maybe it’s that we are each on our own path to enlightenment and we should respect this fact unless it encroaches on our own rights to do the same. You seem to have a real problem with the concept of letting others find God/god in their own way as long as you are free to do the same (and, again, no one else’s rights are violated). Be that through Buddhism, Shamanism, or whatever.

And you seem to have a real problem with people who say there exists such a thing as objective truth… and with its existence, it seems.