Religious Tolerance

[JimG]

Is freedom of religion possible in a Muslim country? Do Muslim countries allow the free practice of other religions, such as Christianity, Judaism, or for that matter, atheism?

 

[meedo]

My country has 7 million christians , couple of hundred Jews. I donty know how much athiests. Every body worship.

 

[Karin]

This site may be helpful…it lists (Catholic )dioceses by country and then districts. Gives a break down by dioceses of male/ female parishoners etc.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/

 

[JimG]

meedo:

My country has 7 million christians , couple of hundred Jews. I donty know how much athiests. Every body worship.

Which country, meedo? Sorry if this has been answered before; I haven’t been in this particular forum often.

 

[meedo]

Egypt

 

[LtTony]

I believe other religions’ public worship is excluded in Saudia Arabia because it is home to Mecca and uh…uh…I forget. I think its fairly open in other places, like meedo’s Egypt.

Jim

 

[JimG]

So, except for Saudi Arabia, it would be OK to build a Catholic or a protestant Church or to evangelize in other predominantly Muslim countries?

 

[Karin]

JimG:

So, except for Saudi Arabia, it would be OK to build a Catholic or a protestant Church or to evangelize in other predominantly Muslim countries?

I can not speak for all Muslim countries but it ahs been done and it is done in Pakistan.

 

[hawk]

Karin:

I can not speak for all Muslim countries but it ahs been done and it is done in Pakistan.

Sure, only to get bombed a short while later.

When they make too many bombs shii mosques, then they use the left over ones for churches.

 

[Karin]

hawk:

Sure, only to get bombed a short while later.

Well much may of changed since my visit in 2000 but I did see many churches back then…

 

[Faith101]

my parents are from Egypt and i have visited the country several times. The Churches are huge and beautiful. There are places were there is a church at every corner. I see people gathered worshipping freely and no one is bothering them. Many stores owned by Christians display crosses, depictions of Jesus (pbuh), etc…and muslims buy things from them with no discrimination that i can see.

NOt to say that discrimination does not occur…or else it’ll be a utopia…just saying, in the places where i have been…i havent personally seen it (and when i went i was consiously looking to see the interaction between the Muslims and the Christians)

also, many of my family members good friends are Christian…and the only way i was able to tell was b/c they wore crosses…they were treated the exact same way as all my family’s other friends.

 

[hawk]

Faith101:

my parents are from Egypt and i have visited the country several times. The Churches are huge and beautiful. There are places were there is a church at every corner. I see people gathered worshipping freely and no one is bothering them. Many stores owned by Christians display crosses, depictions of Jesus (pbuh), etc…and muslims buy things from them with no discrimination that i can see.

NOt to say that discrimination does not occur…or else it’ll be a utopia…just saying, in the places where i have been…i havent personally seen it (and when i went i was consiously looking to see the interaction between the Muslims and the Christians)

also, many of my family members good friends are Christian…and the only way i was able to tell was b/c they wore crosses…they were treated the exact same way as all my family’s other friends.

I know nothing about egypt but coptic (a member) posted some interesting things about christian egyptians.

I am personally of the opinion that we should start a war for an independent christian state in egypt, that christians in the west will support.

It would be like the war’s in chechnya and kashmir, I am sure the ummah will understand the motives

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk
This is most interesting.

Perhaps it is cultural?

Arent muslims and christians the same culturally?

What do you mean aren’t muslims and christians the same culturally??? Yes they are both Egyptians, and yes they both speak arabic, but that is where the similarities end. They discriminate and persecute the Copts because we love, honor and worship Jesus Christ!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk

Maybe the Christians persecuted the muslims initially?

Are you serious??? Egypt was a Christian nation for the first few centuries, and then the arabs came and conquered Egypt and forced as many as possible to convert. They destroyed whatever they found that was Coptic and forced the Egyptians to learn Arabic instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk
I refuse to believe that it is the faith that teaches hatred, maybe that is the tribal way prevalent in egypt.

Look, no offense, but it appears to me that you know very little about Egypt. And, I’m not telling you what to believe. I am telling you historical facts! There are no opinions here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk
Take the phillipines and chechnya, muslims are fighting there for freedom, do you think the christians in egypt should fight for a christian homeland in egypt?

Should Copts fight for a Christian homeland? In my humble opinion, I don’t think its right to start more trouble. Now I’m not saying the Copts should hide their faith, but there is no reason to start fighting. The answer to the problems in Egypt is as simple as prayer. Despite all the Copts have been through, the church has survived and is soooo strong in faith, and that is all done through faith, fasting, and prayer–not through starting fights.

God Bless,
Elizabeth

 

[Reuben_J]

JimG:

So, except for Saudi Arabia, it would be OK to build a Catholic or a protestant Church or to evangelize in other predominantly Muslim countries?

In some South East Asian countries where Islam is an official religion, you cannot evangelize Muslims. It’s difficult to build new churches as approval may not be granted by local authorites.

Minors once get converted to Muslims will find it difficult to revert back to his original religion.

Christian worship or talk programs are not allow on local TVs. The Pope is not given permission to enter the country.

There seems to be no change in sight as politicians will not survive politically if they endorse otherwise.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Islam is not a tolerant religion.That is a fact ! Tolerance of other relgions in moslom countries is not usual. Christians are better off in countries that are secular dictatorships, with moslem populations. Than countries that are fully moslom.
Christians in Iraq may find that they were better off under Saddam Heusien than any Islamic Republic that it mght become.
Coptic christians in Egypt are discriminated against even murdered. The Egyptian govt. does a lousy job protecting them.

 

[hawk]

hawk:

I know nothing about egypt but coptic (a member) posted some interesting things about christian egyptians.

I am personally of the opinion that we should start a war for an independent christian state in egypt, that christians in the west will support.

It would be like the war’s in chechnya and kashmir, I am sure the ummah will understand the motives

Cant seem to shake the jihadist in me!

 

[Lance]

Jihad is a religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of the Prophet Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur’an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and repelling evil from Muslims.

The world is divided into two spheres, Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb. The latter, the Land of Warfare, is a country belonging to infidels which has not been subdued by Islam. The Dar al-Harb becomes the Dar- al Islam, the Land of Islam, upon the promulgation of the edicts of Islam. Thus the totalitarian nature of Islam is nowhere more apparent than in the concept of Jihad, the Holy War, whose ultimate aim is to conquer the entire world and submit it to the one true faith, to the law of Allah. To Islam alone has been granted the truth: there is no possibility of salvation outside it. Muslims must fight and kill in the name of Allah.

We read (IX. 5-6):“Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them”;

IV.76: “Those who believe fight in the cause of God”;

VIII.39-42: “Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.”

Those who die fighting for the only true religion, Islam, will be amply rewarded in the life to come:

IV.74: “Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.”

What should we make with these further unfortunate verses from the Qur’an:

*Torment to Non-believers->IV.56
*Only Islam Acceptable-> III.85

• No friends from outsiders->III.118
  *No friends with Jews, christians->V. 51
• No friends with non believers->IV.144, III.28
• No friends with parents/siblings if not believers->IX.23
• Fight non-believers->IX.123 * Kill non-believers->IV.89
  *Anti Jewish verses->V.82
• God a “plotter”->VIII.30
  *Killing Idolators->IX.5
• Idolators are unclean just because they are idolator->IX.28
• Forcing non-believers to pay tax->IX.29
• The Torment of Hell->XLIV.43-58
• All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell->II.62, V.69
• Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers->VIII.12
• Smite the neck of unbelievers->XLVII.4
• Severe Punishment for atheists->X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86
• Severe Punishment for non-believers->XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6
  *Punishing non-believers of Hereafter->XVII.10
• Punishing for rejecting faith->III.91
• Non believers go to hell->IV.140 ; VII.36 * Partial Believers go to hell too->IV.150-1
• Sadistic punishments->LVI.42-43
• Punishment for apostates->XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137.
• Threat of punishement for not going to war->IX.38-39, XLVIII.16
  *God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more->III178
  *Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth->VI.25 ; VI.110
• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran- >XVII.45-46
• It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that- >XVII.97
• God could guide, if he chose to, but did not->VI.35
• Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->XIV.4
• Willfully misguiding some->XVI.93
• God causes human to err->IV.143 ; VII.178
• God deceiving humans->IV.142

 

[Booklover]

Lance:

Jihad is a religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of the Prophet Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur’an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and repelling evil from Muslims.

The world is divided into two spheres, Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb. The latter, the Land of Warfare, is a country belonging to infidels which has not been subdued by Islam. The Dar al-Harb becomes the Dar- al Islam, the Land of Islam, upon the promulgation of the edicts of Islam. Thus the totalitarian nature of Islam is nowhere more apparent than in the concept of Jihad, the Holy War, whose ultimate aim is to conquer the entire world and submit it to the one true faith, to the law of Allah. To Islam alone has been granted the truth: there is no possibility of salvation outside it. Muslims must fight and kill in the name of Allah.

We read (IX. 5-6):“Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them”;

IV.76: “Those who believe fight in the cause of God”;

VIII.39-42: “Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.”

Those who die fighting for the only true religion, Islam, will be amply rewarded in the life to come:

IV.74: “Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.”

What should we make with these further unfortunate verses from the Qur’an:

*Torment to Non-believers->IV.56
*Only Islam Acceptable-> III.85

• No friends from outsiders->III.118
  *No friends with Jews, christians->V. 51
• No friends with non believers->IV.144, III.28
• No friends with parents/siblings if not believers->IX.23
• Fight non-believers->IX.123 * Kill non-believers->IV.89
  *Anti Jewish verses->V.82
• God a “plotter”->VIII.30
  *Killing Idolators->IX.5
• Idolators are unclean just because they are idolator->IX.28
• Forcing non-believers to pay tax->IX.29
• The Torment of Hell->XLIV.43-58
• All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell->II.62, V.69
• Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers->VIII.12
• Smite the neck of unbelievers->XLVII.4
• Severe Punishment for atheists->X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86
• Severe Punishment for non-believers->XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6
  *Punishing non-believers of Hereafter->XVII.10
• Punishing for rejecting faith->III.91
• Non believers go to hell->IV.140 ; VII.36 * Partial Believers go to hell too->IV.150-1
• Sadistic punishments->LVI.42-43
• Punishment for apostates->XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137.
• Threat of punishement for not going to war->IX.38-39, XLVIII.16
  *God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more->III178
  *Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth->VI.25 ; VI.110
• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran- >XVII.45-46
• It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that- >XVII.97
• God could guide, if he chose to, but did not->VI.35
• Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->XIV.4
• Willfully misguiding some->XVI.93
• God causes human to err->IV.143 ; VII.178
• God deceiving humans->IV.142

Yes, this is the nightmare world of the “peaceful” religion of Islam! It’s no better than Nazism, Communism or Fascism!

 

[Faith101]

Lance:

Jihad is a religious war with those who are unbelievers in the mission of the Prophet Muhammad. It is an incumbent religious duty, established in the Qur’an and in the Traditions as a divine institution, and enjoined specially for the purpose of advancing Islam and repelling evil from Muslims.

The world is divided into two spheres, Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb. The latter, the Land of Warfare, is a country belonging to infidels which has not been subdued by Islam. The Dar al-Harb becomes the Dar- al Islam, the Land of Islam, upon the promulgation of the edicts of Islam. Thus the totalitarian nature of Islam is nowhere more apparent than in the concept of Jihad, the Holy War, whose ultimate aim is to conquer the entire world and submit it to the one true faith, to the law of Allah. To Islam alone has been granted the truth: there is no possibility of salvation outside it. Muslims must fight and kill in the name of Allah.

We read (IX. 5-6):“Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them”;

IV.76: “Those who believe fight in the cause of God”;

VIII.39-42: “Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.”

Those who die fighting for the only true religion, Islam, will be amply rewarded in the life to come:

IV.74: “Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward.”

What should we make with these further unfortunate verses from the Qur’an:

*Torment to Non-believers->IV.56
*Only Islam Acceptable-> III.85

• No friends from outsiders->III.118
  *No friends with Jews, christians->V. 51
• No friends with non believers->IV.144, III.28
• No friends with parents/siblings if not believers->IX.23
• Fight non-believers->IX.123 * Kill non-believers->IV.89
  *Anti Jewish verses->V.82
• God a “plotter”->VIII.30
  *Killing Idolators->IX.5
• Idolators are unclean just because they are idolator->IX.28
• Forcing non-believers to pay tax->IX.29
• The Torment of Hell->XLIV.43-58
• All except Muslims/Jews/Christians/Sabeans will go to hell->II.62, V.69
• Cast terror in the hearts, smite the neck and cut fingertips of unbelievers->VIII.12
• Smite the neck of unbelievers->XLVII.4
• Severe Punishment for atheists->X.4 ; V.10 ; V.86
• Severe Punishment for non-believers->XXII.19-22 ; LXXII.23, XCVIII.6
  *Punishing non-believers of Hereafter->XVII.10
• Punishing for rejecting faith->III.91
• Non believers go to hell->IV.140 ; VII.36 * Partial Believers go to hell too->IV.150-1
• Sadistic punishments->LVI.42-43
• Punishment for apostates->XVI.106 ; III.86-88 ; III.90 ; IV.137.
• Threat of punishement for not going to war->IX.38-39, XLVIII.16
  *God making someone more sinful so he can be punished more->III178
  *Intentionally preventing unbelievers from knowing the truth->VI.25 ; VI.110
• Intentionally preventing unbelievers from Understanding Quran- >XVII.45-46
• It is God who causes people to err and He punishes them for that- >XVII.97
• God could guide, if he chose to, but did not->VI.35
• Intentionally misguiding those whom he pleases to->XIV.4
• Willfully misguiding some->XVI.93
• God causes human to err->IV.143 ; VII.178
• God deceiving humans->IV.142

lance

if you want to understand the truth…then please start a new thread about this topic. For discussion sake, pick a few verses…we can start with those and move through all of them inshAllah.

 

[Lance]

Faith101:

lance

if you want to understand the truth…then please start a new thread about this topic. For discussion sake, pick a few verses…we can start with those and move through all of them inshAllah.

I am fully aware of the truth, it is the Catholic religion. I know all I want to know about Islam. My son-in-law is a Maronite Christian from Lebanon and he has told me lots of stories about how Islam treats Christians.

 

[Faith101]

Lance:

I am fully aware of the truth, it is the Catholic religion. I know all I want to know about Islam. My son-in-law is a Maronite Christian from Lebanon and he has told me lots of stories about how Islam treats Christians.

Its not how Islam treats Christians…its how some muslims treat some christians. Like how some christians treat some non-christians…its not the religion that preaches hatred…except ofcourse if you take verses out of context, like you have done.

in any case, to you your religion…and to me, mine.

peace