Religious update

[Ncyza]

Hello- new to the forum. Have had a lot on my mind lately. I Am not the most religious of people. I have not found my way to connect with my religion. When I sit in mass and listen to some of the passages I find Many of them have no meaning. There are a few good ones that relate to how we treat each other. But for the most part they are passages that talk about people and situations from so long ago and they don’t fit society anymore. Why have we allowed our religion to become static in time? God is timeless. Can we not add to the Bible? Surely we have prophets and saints today. Can we do another chapter or book and keep our religion alive? Relate it to our world now so our children and our children’s children can keep God’s love alive. Because my kids are teenagers and they struggle to relate to the stories and view them more as things like fables. Bring to light the miracles that happen today and the saints like Mother Theresa and I guess I don’t know of any other recent ones because we are not really including their lessons in the stories in our miselets. we need to keep the message but bring it home to this day and age. I don’t think that religion and it’s stories should be static. It should live with all of us.

 

[drac16]

I believe that we shouldn’t change our religion to suit the trends of the day or the desires of carnal activists. When you go to the Bible, you need to behold it’s holiness because God has spoken. God is glorified when His word is lived in light of. If you want to go follow the world, then by all means, go. Don’t expect to find peace, lasting satisfaction or God at the end of that road, though.

It’s you that needs to be changed-- not the faith.

 

[1ke]

they are passages that talk about people and situations from so long ago and they don’t fit society anymore.

Actually, if you read and study the Bible with a good commentary, you see salvation history, which applies to everyone— and how it applies to you individually.

Why have we allowed our religion to become static in time? God is timeless.

Salvation history tells the story of God’s covenant with Man, and it culminates in the person of Jesus.

Can we not add to the Bible?

No. Divine Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle. Salvation History is complete in the person of Jesus. The Bible helps us come to know the person of Jesus better, and through prayer and the sacramental life we build a relationship with Him.

Surely we have prophets and saints today.

We do not have prophets. We certainly have saints. But they do not add to the deposit of faith. They live it out.

Can we do another chapter or book and keep our religion alive?

Our religion is alive in the person of Christ. People have been writing about the Bible for 2000 years and haven’t exhausted all there is to say about it yet.

Because my kids are teenagers and they struggle to relate to the stories and view them more as things like fables.

Well then, they are lacking proper exegesis.

Bring to light the miracles that happen today and the saints like Mother Theresa

We don’t require new scripture for that. Perhaps you are confused on what Scripture is and isn’t.

Of course we can, and should, show how saints live out the faith. We have books and movies about them and the writings of the saints themselves.

I guess I don’t know of any other recent ones because we are not really including their lessons in the stories in our miselets

Because that is not the appropriate place for them. Get some books from the library or book store.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Good Catholic books

 

[Ncyza]

I think you missed the point I’m trying to get across. I’m not talking changing everything- I’m saying to add to our stories. What mysteries what recent revelations have we witnessed? Why can there be no more prophets? We are all supposed to be apostles of Jesus. We are all supposed to share his word. I think we are missing the point - what impacts does our faith have on us now. And we are not supposed to be worshiping Jesus. He wanted us to worship God. Jesus was only supposed to be the beginning- not the end! We should follow his path and be like unto him. But he and his direct followers were never supposed to be the end. I think that is why I struggle. Because we are worshiping for the wrong reasons and when I read some of the passages in the books in church - they aren’t even relatable stories - it’s like someone picked out a random blurb sometimes. No content - who picks those out? I will have to post one of them so you can see… so you can explain to me what it is really supposed to teach. Can we not combine old scripture and new. Why does scripture have to be a thing of the past? They were not the only ones wise in the way of God. There are many people today who see the message. Jesus has very important messages to us about tolerance and loving God. Keep those. Add messages/stories from more recent saints. Keep it going forward and not entomb your religion in the past. Show us Gods message today and yesterday. I’m not saying add big bands (which I don’t like) or flashy things - keep everything the same… except bring it to today and keep the interest of the young people by adding to our stories from what happens today… I’m sure somewhere in the amount all of the clergy out there someone has to be keeping track of the miracles of today? Add another book to our scripture. This is what we have done to be followers in Jesus’ footsteps. Give me hope that this is real and true and that it is alive today. Because all I hear are stories that happened a thousand years ago. And sometimes I go, who cares who begot whom that was information they needed long ago - it’s irrelevant today… I don’t fear growth - we don’t have to erase the messages of the past… but perhaps along with those add messages from today.

 

[Wesrock]

The Catechism of the Church speaks to this in its section on Christ Jesus – "Mediator and Fullness of All Revelation: Catechism of the Catholic Church

66 “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

The issue was addressed quite early by the Church. In the second century there was a growing “New Prophecy” movement (called Montanists, for its founder). The Church rejected their position.

Our belief that public revelation closed with Jesus Christ, God’s Word fully revealed to us, to his apostles is an article of our faith. The Bible specifically is an account of salvation history, from man’s creation, to his fall, to God’s covenants with man, to man’s restoration through Christ Jesus. The Church was created by Jesus to be a living institution that would continue to speak to Christians through all times and the difficulties they found then.

The daily readings can be a bit more obscure, but certainly all of the readings on Sunday (Old Testament, Psalms, New Testament Letters, and Gospel) should all directly pertain to each other. We see prefigurements of Christ, or parallel stories in salvation history, and common motifs and themes. One of the things the homily can do (and I’m going to overstep and say “should” do) is to tie these things together. Another to take these readings and apply them to our daily lives today. I’ve no insight into what you’re hearing at the masses you attend.

And we are not supposed to be worshiping Jesus. He wanted us to worship God.

Are you familiar with Christian teaching that Jesus Christ is God? That God assumed flesh and entered into the world for our sake in the person of Jesus Christ? And the teaching of the Trinity that God is one being who is three persons, and that Jesus Christ is specifically the person of the Son?

Jesus was only supposed to be the beginning- not the end! We should follow his path and be like unto him. But he and his direct followers were never supposed to be the end. I think that is why I struggle.

Well, Jesus is both the Alpha and the Omega, no? Jesus is the beginning of the Church which lives today, but he also quite clearly bookends the story of salvation history that begins with the Fall in Genesis.

 

[Ncyza]

I would like to point out that what you have stated above really makes me feel less like finding faith if it makes one intolerant of others opinions. Jesus would guide one to God’s love. Not bully them into feeling bad about oneself. And I am not by any means saying that we need to change any of the ritual or add any carnal delights to mass - merely stating that sharing more of the stories that have happened since Christ’s death up to now - in church may make it more meaningful to Our teenage population and questioning adults. Also we could perhaps more readily transfer the overall message of what he wanted us to do by giving relevant examples, and perhaps the governing bodies of the church could compile a new book to provide stories along with the old Scriptures and tie it to what Jesus was trying to teach.

 

[MarkRome]

I sit in Mass and find the passages have great meaning. Faith is something lived. If you aren’t living it, then all religion will be is a collection of irrelevant stories and eventually be viewed as just fables. It’s not that religion and stories are static, we become static.

 

[Peaceable]

I’m not sure it’s necessary to add another book to the scriptures to get a sense of the relevance today of ideas in the Bible.

Religious truth is timeless. Maybe a good Bible commentary might help at understanding the deeper meaning of a Bible story, so that it doesn’t feel like something that happened “a long time ago?” Also there are so many modern saints, many of whom have writings. Have you read some of them? I think this might be the most helpful given your concerns?

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Scripture, read with the right disposition, is a timeless love story between God and humanity.

Maybe try learning some lectio devina so you can pick up the process that will help you delve deeper?

As for recent miracles and saints, they are part of the treasury of our faith. Learn about them and enjoy!

I think what you are saying though maybe is that a lot of people may be missing the piece that takes the bible from stories of old and catapults them right into it as the living word of God waiting to speak to them in a personal way. Is it something like that?

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

merely stating that sharing more of the stories that have happened since Christ’s death up to now - in church may make it more meaningful to Our teenage population and questioning adults.

Those can be rough times for a person of faith. I think we all go through a time where we just know there is more to it. We know there is more richness and truth and beauty that we are somehow missing out on but don’t know how to access it or why some people seem to but they’ve been sitting in the same church as you and you’re like…what?

I think your concern shows a desire to grow in closeness to our Lord and for others to do the same. I think you are about to enter a time of great spiritual growth that will be wonderful and amazing.

 

[Ncyza]

Thank you wesrock - for the information. It was very well presented. I still cannot help but feel we are losing the message in the restriction of adding new stories. History of what has happened since Christ’s death and of his followers is important and we do get some of it in the homily. But I think as a reading it would be more of a focal point. You are slowly loosing people… and the restrictions on these additions will be the little death of Catholicism. Jesus and his revelation should be the focal point - but I find that many of the scripture readings during church do not even relate to him… they are too obscure and too focused on laws/rules that don’t apply in Society today and list off people that have no connection to us anymore. They are describing things that were once important to know as a teaching guide. Information changed, society changed drastically with free flowing information. We need to have stories that teach us how to navigate current times and still stay true to the central message.

Sorry I am being stubborn and really looking to find something from my religion that I can’t really describe as well as I want. But I do think that without bringing in stories from more current times we will lose people on the fringes. The stories do need to relate to Jesus and his message and I don’t mean that we should put anyone else’s revelations above his. But the story didn’t really end with his death and resurrection and I sincerely believe that the continuation of the catholic history up to current times should be allowed as an addition and captured and presented as “readings”. We must guide the people in present times with relevant information to keep them engaged.

I have heard of the holy trinity- (my whole life in fact)- but I have always had a feeling that we misinterpreted or missed the message from Jesus and his life. In the stories I have heard, his message was always to worship God, and to treat each other well. He was not seeking kingship or anything more than to be the messenger. He was a very important figure for us, (understatement) but, it was his message to worship God. That may be a whole other discussion…

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

From what I’m reading in this thread it sounds like you might benefit from:

• some type of study group that forges friendships between people of faith. These friendships turn into the type of thing where you can’t wait to relate something from the book you just read or about this or that saint you love.
• a spiritual director
• reading church history and reading the writings and lives of more modern saints. Follow your curiosity on those subjects and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in your choices.

 

[Ncyza]

Thank you all for you responses - I am looking for that deeper meaning. And have been missing some connection that is just not there for me. I don’t relate to the stories and it’s not that I don’t want to or don’t try to live a good Christian life. I just can’t seem to leap into it as much as others do. I’ve tried volunteering with teaching youth in catechism classes (I had as much learning to do as the kids) and joining the circle group. But I’ve always felt that I’m an outsider and can’t relate to the other adults because I’m missing something or hearing a different message… I think I’m not as subject to fear, or something. Like one lady I met was terrified of a Wicken necklace that had been dropped in the donation box at our local Christian thrift store(where I was volunteering)- and I just thought that that was a silly reaction. What do you have to fear from that - it’s not a sign of evil- it is a different form of spirituality. I don’t really believe in Magic or witches so to speak so I guess it didn’t impact me the same. And then after that I realized that I have a different outlook on religion than the other ladies that were volunteers there - all very Christian people. And I realized that the magic had gone from religion for me as well. The stories we hear happened so long ago - I need to know that these things can still happen in the world now, I guess…So I wondered is it so wrong to record and share something from recent history that relates to our faith and keep it living and growing?

 

[Ncyza]

Very much so… we are electing to leave out a vital piece, the piece that connects us to the past and shows us that it didn’t only manifest in that time but continues…

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

I relate to much of that. I definitely went through a long period of feeling that way and tried the same things you tried! I don’t know precisely what to tell you to do because I’m not even really sure what brought me out of it.

Where I don’t relate is the asking the Church to change. I just thought everyone else was getting it because they were better than me and I wasn’t as lovable so I didn’t fault God for not showing up for me as he did for them (of course He actually shows up all along). I think my wound of believing I was unlovable garbage stood in the way of my faith for so long.

You may have a different wound, but we all have some. Maybe there is some wound that greater self-knowledge can heal for you too. The devil tells us so many lies about ourselves. Healing and relationship with the Lord is waiting for us all.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Very much so… we are electing to leave out a vital piece, the piece that connects us to the past and shows us that it didn’t only manifest in that time but continues…

It’s not being suppressed. These things are more available than ever via Catholic printing companies and the internet.

 

[1ke]

I’m saying to add to our stories.

No we didn’t miss your point. There are PLENTY of books telling of the lives of saints. Plenty of writings from the Pope, bishops, priests and others. Lots of spiritual writing, prayer and reflection and how to apply the Gospel in our lives.

And there will be plenty more. People haven’t stopped writing about the faith for 2000 years.

What isn’t open for addition is Divine Revelation— Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

What mysteries what recent revelations have we witnessed?

There aren’t any.

Why can there be no more prophets?

Because Divine Revelation is complete in the person of Jesus, the incarnate word, the second person of the Trinity.

Everything has been revealed, there is nothing else.

And we are not supposed to be worshiping Jesus. He wanted us to worship God.

Um. Jesus is God.

Jesus was only supposed to be the beginning- not the end!

This is not accurate. He is the alpha and the omega. The beginning AND the end.

 

[Fauken]

This is not accurate. He is the alpha and the omega. The beginning AND the end.

Yup. John 8:58:

“8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.”

There is only one “I AM”. To claim such a thing is to claim that you are God.

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

I just can’t seem to leap into it as much as others do.

Maybe your leap will look different from their leap.

Your leap may involve a lot of study and a lot of surrender. Taking all of this spiritual angst and giving it to God in sincerity.

Lord I desire closeness with you, but I’m a ball of angst. Look lovingly on my desire to follow you and guide me in my studies. Amen.

Then commit yourself to studying good solid sources on all these areas that interest and concern you, knowing that the faithful study and years put in will be a way to show God you love Him and want to love His church.