Religious update

[PennyinCanada]

Do you know what happened when our Lady appeared at Fatima in 1917?
Are you familiar with the story of our Lady of Guadalupe?
Have you read the story of St Padre Pio?
Are you familiar with the Eucharistic miracles that have occurred through the centuries?
Are you familiar with the Incorruptibles?

I feel as though you’re trying to say that God seems far away, that scripture is 2000 years old. He is with us, and every Christmas we say ‘God is with us!’

When we read of Moses climbing the mountain and finding the burning bush, this image points forward in time to when Jesus hides himself in the Blessed Sacrament. This is the image we should have when we enter a Catholic church and the Eucharist is hidden in the tabernacle. May that reality catch fire in your heart! We are the candle in this dark world. God bless you.

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Moses at the Burning Bush Exodus 3:5
…4When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called out to him from within the bush, “Moses, Moses!” “Here I am,” he answered. 5 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6 Then He said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.…

 

[Wesrock]

Do you know what happened when our Lady appeared at Fatima in 1917?
Are you familiar with the story of our Lady of Guadalupe?
Have you read the story of St Padre Pio?
Are you familiar with the Eucharistic miracles that have occurred through the centuries?
Are you familiar with the Incorruptibles?

I believe she is saying she would like these things compiled into new books and included in the readings at mass.

 

[1ke]

So, let’s start at the beginning:

What do you think the purpose of divine revelation (composed of both sacred scripture and sacred tradition) is?

 

[Wesrock]

I don’t have an answer at the moment, but while there is the doctrinal issue, I think there is also the question of engagement with the lives of the saints and living as a Christian today. I agree the readings at mass are not the appropriate place for this. These are sometimes addressed in the homily. But do we have any “solutions” maybe outside of mass? For example, Formed.org is a Catholic resource that has lots of ebooks, audiobooks, and videos on Christian living and the lives of the saints, among other things. A lot of parishes have subscriptions that their members can use for free. Lighthouse Catholic Media is also a subscription service, but they do have free videos available (at least through their app). Dynamic Catholic also has resources. And this isn’t even to talk about just general book recommendations.

I’m not sure if that helps at all with the OP’s angle, perhaps she really does wish to focus on scripture and the mass. But if it’s a matter of engaging with the Church and the saints since Christ and today, there are resources for that.

 

[Gorgias]

Hello- new to the forum.

Hi, Nicole! Welcome!

When I sit in mass and listen to some of the passages I find Many of them have no meaning. There are a few good ones that relate to how we treat each other. But for the most part they are passages that talk about people and situations from so long ago and they don’t fit society anymore.

When I was a teen, I had a real interest in computer programming. I remember going to the bookstore and buying programming journals. They were really interesting… but it was like reading Greek. I really didn’t understand everything that was in there, even though I tried my hardest to understand them.

It took additional study and diligence to get to the point where they made sense and were valuable to me.

Same thing with the Scriptures: they’re not “static in time” – they speak to very real, very human, and very relevant situations that still happen to all of us! We just have to learn to look at them from a viewpoint that allows them to talk to us!

We do have saints today, and we do hear what they’ve said and written! But… that’s something different from what a Catholic Liturgy is. I think that there absolutely is a place in Catholic spirituality for what you’re looking for… but that place isn’t “Sunday morning in the pews at Mass.”

Ncyza:

And we are not supposed to be worshiping Jesus.

We aren’t? Are you sure about that? (Think back to the story of “Doubting Thomas”. He certainly worshiped Jesus and Jesus didn’t object!)

Ncyza:

when I read some of the passages in the books in church - they aren’t even relatable stories - it’s like someone picked out a random blurb sometimes.

I promise you: if you attend a good Catholic Bible study (I like Jeff Cavins’ “Bible Timeline”), you’ll start to see how the stories (even in the Old Testament!) are relatable and not random!

(The Bible selections at Mass come from the Lectionary, BTW. We have a three year cycle on Sundays, and what the Lectionary does is walk us through a different Gospel each year. The Gospel of John is found during the seasons of Lent and Advent, by and large.)

Ncyza:

Show us Gods message today and yesterday.

A good homilist will do exactly that – taking the Bible stories, relating them to current situations, and using them to point us to Christ in the Eucharist!

Ncyza:

And I am not by any means saying that we need to change any of the ritual or add any carnal delights to mass - merely stating that sharing more of the stories that have happened since Christ’s death up to now - in church may make it more meaningful to Our teenage population and questioning adults.

This really is an important dynamic! I think, though, that the Church would recommend that we do these things outside of Mass. Remember: being a Catholic doesn’t mean we only have one hour a week to live our faith; it means we have at least one hour a week, and then we find additional ways – like the stuff you’re suggesting! – to enrich our faith life!

 

[phil19034]

Hello- new to the forum. Have had a lot on my mind lately. I Am not the most religious of people. I have not found my way to connect with my religion. When I sit in mass and listen to some of the passages I find Many of them have no meaning. There are a few good ones that relate to how we treat each other. But for the most part they are passages that talk about people and situations from so long ago and they don’t fit society anymore. Why have we allowed our religion to become static in time? God is timeless. Can we not add to the Bible? Surely we have prophets and saints today. Can we do another chapter or book and keep our religion alive? Relate it to our world now so our children and our children’s children can keep God’s love alive. Because my kids are teenagers and they struggle to relate to the stories and view them more as things like fables. Bring to light the miracles that happen today and the saints like Mother Theresa and I guess I don’t know of any other recent ones because we are not really including their lessons in the stories in our miselets. we need to keep the message but bring it home to this day and age. I don’t think that religion and it’s stories should be static. It should live with all of us.

Well… first and foremost, we don’t add to the Scriptures (aka the Public Revelation) because the Scriptures are what Jesus either taught or taught from. Anything new would not be coming from Jesus or be something used by Jesus when He walked the Earth in human form.

HOWEVER, we do grow over time via:

• Private Revelation (Marian apparitions, etc), plus the teachings of
• the writings & examples of the Saints
• Ecumenical councils
• writings of the Popes
• etc

Unlike Protestants, who only have the Bible, we Catholics have Sacred Tradition which can & does develop over time.

 

[phil19034]

merely stating that sharing more of the stories that have happened since Christ’s death up to now - in church may make it more meaningful to Our teenage population and questioning adults. Also we could perhaps more readily transfer the overall message of what he wanted us to do by giving relevant examples, and perhaps the governing bodies of the church could compile a new book to provide stories along with the old Scriptures and tie it to what Jesus was trying to teach.

Perhaps you should talk to your priest(s) and deacon(s) about tying in the lives of the Saints into their their homilies a little more.

Priests tend to do this more at daily masses, but typically don’t on Sundays.

There are also a TON of books, movies and even Cartoons on the Saints. My I suggest you get a subscription to FORMED.org

If you parish doesn’t have a parish subscription, you can purchase it for $9.99 per month. It’s like a “Catholic Netflix.” With a subscription, you can watch on your TV (via a streaming device), tablet, computer, smart phone, etc.

The movies on there about the Saints are pretty awesome. From older Saints like St. Augustine and St. Francis, to Saints from the 20th Century.

There are also cartoons (some more geared towards teens), ebooks and audio dramas on there.

Plus documentaries, and other serialized programs.

After FORMED.org, I also recommend books from the following Catholic publishers (this is not exhaustive):
*Ignatius Press
*Catholic Answers Press
*Tan Books
*Sophia Institute Press
*Tumblar House
*Ascension Press
*Augustine Institute Press
*Loreto Publications
*Roman Catholic Books
*Angelico Press
*EWTN Publishing
*Mediatrix Press
*Sensus Traditionis
*Baronius Press
*Fraternity Publicatioins
*Our Sunday Visitor
*Emmaus Road Publishing
*Bridegroom Press
*Coalition in Support of Ecclesia Dei
*Confraternity of the Precious Blood
*Montfort Publications
*Scepter Publishers
*St. Bonaventure Publications
*Servant Publications
*Ave Maria Press
*Angelus Press

etc.

The following online Catholic books stores are a great place to start
https://shop.catholic.com/

Fraternity Publications

https://catholic.market/
https://www.aquinasandmore.com/

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

Because my kids are teenagers and they struggle to relate to the stories and view them more as things like fables.

I don’t know how I missed this part! This whole time I’d been answering as though you were the young person, rather than a mother whose kids are older than mine dealing with issues I’ve not yet gotten to. I’m so sorry I wasn’t responding to what this thread was actually about. Is there a good youth group at your parish? Being around other kids who love their faith could help.

 

[JOE_OBERR]

If we would be catechized from the Sunday pulpits I believe you would be less frustrated. By catechesis I mean the priest educating the laity in the faith in an organic and systematic manner. By “the faith” I mean the Gospel the Apostles learned in secret from Jesus (Mt 13:11, Mk 4:11-12, Lk 8:10, Jn 15:15) and the Holy Spirit which Jesus then commanded them to preach to the whole world (Mk 16:15-16) as the oral word of God (1 Thes 2:13). Here Jesus is saying in Mk 16 the path to salvation is to hear this Gospel, believe it and be baptized. This is how Christianity (the Catholic Church) was and still is being spread for the last 2,000 years. Pentecost Sunday marked the initiation of preaching the Catholic faith, about 10 years before the first New Testament book was authored (Mt) and 350 years before the Catholic Church (CC) fixed the canon of Scripture. And another 1,100 years before the printing press was invented by the Catholic Gutenberg.

Catechesis would include the history of the CC, since the time of Christ, and its impact on the world since then. This CC history is called one of the hierarchies of truth which should be preached.

Western civilization developed due to the influence of the CC; books such as Thomas Woods “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization” explain this. The CC developed the first hospitals, the educational system, science and the scientific method, national and international law respecting the rights of individuals (Attila the Hun didn’t much care about the people he murdered & plundered) and promoted beauty in art and architecture. Unfortunately this information about the CC’s impact on Western civilization is being suppressed.

The current expression of this oral word of God, or Apostolic Tradition, can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1993) or The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566). Scripture, the written word of God, nourishes and testifies to Apostolic Tradition but it is distinct from the oral word of God. One must know the oral word of God in order to understand the written word of God; it is impossible otherwise since the bible is not a catechism, that is not its purpose. The bible is a narration of salvation history which includes the time before Christ, the life of Christ and a very brief history of the first decades of the CC. It is not, however, the source and foundation of the CC; Martin Luther originated that idea 1,500 years after the CC was established.

Unfortunately, until the seminaries start teaching seminarians to catechize from the Sunday pulpit we are on our own. The best I can suggest is to begin reading the catechisms to discover what the Catholic faith really is in its fullness and then read books about how it changes civilization for the better when its teachings are followed.

 

[1ke]

Unfortunately, until the seminaries start teaching seminarians to catechize from the Sunday pulpit we are on our own.

That is not the purpose of Mass!!!

 

[Joe_5859]

Because Divine Revelation is complete in the person of Jesus, the incarnate word, the second person of the Trinity.

Everything has been revealed, there is nothing else.

This is the succinct answer to why there will not be anything added to the Bible. It’s not that the Church wants to remain static. Quite the opposite is true. Jesus is the Logos, the Word of God. When God speaks that Word, there is nothing more to add to it. Revelation is complete.

This does not mean that our understanding does not increase, or that we cannot articulate the faith in ways that are particular to our time and culture. But none of these require adding more books to the Bible.

I would also encourage you to look at those seemingly irrelevant passages of Scripture as an amazing invitation to look into the history and background. There are amazing nuggets even in the genealogies. The more I learn about the time and history of biblical times, the more the text comes alive, and the easier it is to apply to my daily life.

 

[Gorgias]

JOE_OBERR:

Unfortunately, until the seminaries start teaching seminarians to catechize from the Sunday pulpit we are on our own.

That is not the purpose of Mass!!!

Exactly! And that’s not the purpose of a homily! Seminarians are being taught to preach a homily in the Catholic style – an understanding of the proclaimed Scriptures, and their relevance in the current situation in the listeners’ lives, and as a means to connect the Eucharist to their lives!

 

[JOE_OBERR]

1ke: I agree that catechesis is not “the” purpose of the Mass, I never said it was. It is, however, integral to the purpose of the Mass which is, according to the Catechism, to celebrate the Paschal mystery:

“For it was from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death upon the cross that there came forth ‘the wondrous sacrament of the whole Church."’ For this reason, the Church celebrates in the liturgy above all the Paschal mystery by which Christ accomplished the work of our salvation.” ( #1067)

But this begs the question as to why the Paschal mystery is celebrated by the Church liturgically. The Catechism answers this question in the very next paragraph:

It is this mystery of Christ that the Church proclaims and celebrates in her liturgy so that the faithful may live from it and bear witness to it in the world:

For it is in the liturgy, especially in the divine sacrifice of the Eucharist, that “the work of our redemption is accomplished,” and it is through the liturgy especially that the faithful are enabled to express in their lives and manifest to others the mystery of Christ and the real nature of the true Church. (#1068)

So it is for the faithful’s benefit, that we may become more alive in Christ and thereby better witnesses to the world of the effects of his saving grace upon us, especially through the Eucharist.

And catechesis is integral to this process as the Catechism further states on the next page:

“The liturgy is the summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; it is also the font from which all her power flows.” It is therefore the privileged place for catechizing the People of God. “Catechesis is intrinsically linked with the whole of liturgical and sacramental activity, for it is in the sacraments, especially in the Eucharist, that Christ Jesus works in fullness for the transformation of men.” (#1074)

Considering that the state of religious education in schools, CCD and RCIA has been in a woeful state for decades, it is even more important for the Church now to preach the Gospel at Sunday Mass using the catechetical venue. When the priest catechizes at Mass he is preaching the Gospel. A pastor preaching at Sunday Mass has only a 10 or 15 minute window, it is his only shot for the whole week, it is best utilized by complying with the appropriate Church guidance, not another’s personal opinion, even if a seminary professor.

 

[JGD]

I agree that priests should catechize in their homilies, especially because of the great need for it among their flock. A good homily would do both. After all, Scripture is the source of our Catholic teachings and doctrines; the two go together.

For example:
*Gospel about Our Lord’s baptism -
catechize on the sacrament of Baptism; or repentance and Sacrament of Confession
*Wedding at Cana -
catechesis onSacrament of Marriage; meaning and purpose of marriage …
*Gospel passages where Jesus gets accused of abusing the Sabbath:
teach about Sunday obligations; right and wrong activities for that day; Sacrifice of the Mass - how it’s a sacrifice,…
*“I have come that they may have life and have it more abundantly” or Nicodemus passage in John 3 –
teach about sanctifying grace, what it is, how we receive it, increase it, lose it, why we need it, original sin
*Sermon on the Mount -
teach about the virtues, what a virtue is, how many…

And I could go on and on. A couple books I have are excellent resources that give the connections between our doctrines and Scripture. Would be a great resource for homily preparation that included both Scripture exegesis and Church doctrine.

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma

Scriptural references for the Baltimore Catechism:

 

[webmasterpdx]

I’ve lived that lie, so be careful and learn about your faith so you can teach your kids. It took me going through some tragic events in my life to return to my faith about 2 years ago…I was around 56yo. I wish I’d done it when I was young, as the truth is the truth is the truth. It really took me a journey of about 25 years of reading and researching other faiths, philosophy, comparative mythology, etc, etc to realize the truth. So there are no shortcuts really. There are ways to teach kids the reality of it in a way they’ll buy into it… The one thing I’d say about your experience at mass is that St John of the Cross wrote about this very thing in his “Dark night of the Soul”…that even though our prayers may seem dry for a time, it’s part of God’s process of spiritual purification, and we should just soldier through these times…