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SteveVH
Guest
From what you have posted you seem to agree with my assessment; it seems to be your view as well, does it not?
Reload this Page BAHA'I thread IV - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions
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eddie_too
Guest
neither bab nor bahaullah have any historical connection to christianity as Jesus had to judaism. Jesus is a product of judaism. neither bab nor bahaullah is a product of christianity.
accordingly, there is no reason to believe that either bab or bahaullah are connected to the God of Abraham or to Jesus Christ in any significant manner.
bab and bahullah are even less related to the God of Abraham and Jesus than was mohammed or joseph smith and there connection is extraordinarily tenuous.
accordingly, there is no reason to believe that either bab or bahaullah are connected to the God of Abraham or to Jesus Christ in any significant manner.
bab and bahullah are even less related to the God of Abraham and Jesus than was mohammed or joseph smith and there connection is extraordinarily tenuous.
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Lochias
Guest
Indeed. If all ways towards God are equal, then Bahaullah’s really not that important at all. I could proclaim that video games are my way towards God, that I find a spiritual truth and completeness in playing Skyrim for 5 hours, and suddenly Bahaullah’s just a footnote in a long line of ultimately unimportant people.Then it appears that there is no reason, at all, to accept Bahaullah as a manifestation of God.
How easy and fun this “make our own Christ!” thing is, and I have the Bahai to thank for it! I can’t wait to see who else comes along in 150 years and renders everything the Bahai have taught to be suddenly incomplete and lacking.
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Nick44
Guest
Every Manifestation of God has the right to either retain or change what had been revealed previously. So, yes, the next has every right to change what Baha’u’llah commanded if God so wills.Indeed. If all ways towards God are equal, then Bahaullah’s really not that important at all. I could proclaim that video games are my way towards God, that I find a spiritual truth and completeness in playing Skyrim for 5 hours, and suddenly Bahaullah’s just a footnote in a long line of ultimately unimportant people.
How easy and fun this “make our own Christ!” thing is, and I have the Bahai to thank for it! I can’t wait to see who else comes along in 150 years and renders everything the Bahai have taught to be suddenly incomplete and lacking.
Baha’u’llah said the next Manifestation would not appear for at least 1,000 literal years…so, it could also be longer than that.
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eddie_too
Guest
the bahai religion appears quite whimsical. when seeking truth, it must be very easy to find if it can change from one person to the next.
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SteveVH
Guest
This is a great example of moral and theological relativism. There is no such thing as objective truth, it can change in an instant according to the whims of the next manifestation.
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Nick44
Guest
What changes is the way the eternal truths, as directed by God, find their expressions in society. Those change as society, collectively, matures and can handle more. The eternal truths, like The Golden Rule, are found in all the major religions and will never change.
We deal with change in our daily lives all the time. You’ve certainly made changes in your various insurance policies as conditions dictate.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
Except when doormouse says Jesus comes through the Eucharist, as a Catholic he or she means it literally which bahai totally must reject. Does Jesus even work for Christians in the grand scheme of things? It seems as if the church has fallen to the gates of hades.That’s wonderful doormouse
If Jesus can work through us in any way that works for us then that is praiseworthy.
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Lochias
Guest
Priceless. So this means that the Bahai are nothing but another social club, when down comes to dirty.
It’s interesting that you’ll take at face value what the Bahaullah says now, when it’s likely down the road that all that he’s said these days will “be revealed” to have been mistaken; you believe what the guy says, because you have faith, because you believe what the guy says…endless cycle.
I’ll stick with the Church, thanks, that is constant, stable, logical and reasonable. We know that what we believe know will always be true, unto the end of time and beyond. I’ll take that stability, that peace, over anything that your man says. That’s what he is, after all…just a man. Possibly a well-meaning one, but only ever a mortal, mistaken man.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
Why must it be literal? Why can’t it be an actual metaphore? You do the same with the gospels, whatever you dissagree with becomes a metaphore or symbol.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
My question about what or who the word is has been left unanswered.
What is the word? An abstraction? A distinct essence seperate from God? Or God himself? Or something entirely different?
What is the word? An abstraction? A distinct essence seperate from God? Or God himself? Or something entirely different?
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Nick44
Guest
Simple. It is literal because Baha’u’llah made the point of saying it was to be taken literally so that there would be no later dispute as to exactly what He meant by the 1,000 years.
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
That means what exactly? Luke made a point of telling us that Jesus was not casper the friendly Ghost when he appeared to his apostles, yet the bahai still say that Jesus still didn’t really raise from the dead, didn’t really ressurect. Why should your texts be excluded from this treatment?
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tonyfish58
Guest
No we would not accept that, so I will let you again correct me if I am wrong!
Have you noticed that a lot of effort is put into trying to show how a Catholic Christian Love of God is far Superior to any other Religions Love of God. Superior as only a Catholic Christian knows the true connection of Christ and God!
Love in the end has to be shown by Works. If one looks at all True Religion you will see that the same Love is in all and all that follow them are motivated to do Good Works via that Love of God.
This is another proof of God and His Religions.
The fact that in the end man corrupts the meanings and adds exclusivity to it is why Gods needs to send another Messenger.
Regards Tony
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tonyfish58
Guest
Eddie - No one discards the Notion of Justice, in fact it is very important - Baha’u’llah has written
O SON OF SPIRIT! The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes. The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh # 2 Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/hw-3.html
Regards Tony
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PRmerger
Guest
Great.No we would not accept that, so I will let you again correct me if I am wrong!
So you can see why I would not accept this paradigm of “We no longer need to enjoy the One Flesh Union in the Eucharist because we are spiritually joined to the Divine as Bahais”.
If your wife told you that, you’d be missing the marital embrace pretty quickly.
Well, if it’s not superior, then I would go looking elsewhere.
And from what the Bahais here have told me, the Bahai paradigm is really no better than Catholicism, so why would I want to go there???
How does one tell if it’s a True Religion or a False Religion?
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IgnatianPhilo
Guest
You have not established anything has been corrupted. When was Christianity corrupted? How was it corrupted? How do you reconcile that with the claim of the quran that there weould be a group of true believers of Jesus to the day of ressurection?
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eddie_too
Guest
meaning no disrespect, but i fail to see how bahaullah’s teachings are substantively different from rodney king’s plaintive cry, “can’t we all just get along”.
from all that the bahai have written in catholic answers, that seems to sum up the teachings of bahaullah.
i do not mean to disparage that sentiment. it is that sentiment alone has never been successful in transforming sinful man.
from all that the bahai have written in catholic answers, that seems to sum up the teachings of bahaullah.
i do not mean to disparage that sentiment. it is that sentiment alone has never been successful in transforming sinful man.
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tonyfish58
Guest
That is a choice one could make, reminded me of some Poems that I wrote quite some time ago!Then it appears that there is no reason, at all, to accept Bahaullah as a manifestation of God.
If the Claim of Baha’u’llah be true,
then to search for the truth is upon you.
And if you find this truth so great,
then pray God not to hesitate.
For the Truth knows no rejection,
and hesitation fails the selection.
So come on kindred’s of the earth,
search out Baha’u’llah and find His worth,
for there is only given one chance to grasp,
the Hidden Mystery of the Lord, so ask!
Tony Bristow-Stagg B.E. 147
and then I found a recent one that is applicable
Obedience
The Word of God inspires our hearts,
From this Word we must not depart.
Immerse yourself in the ocean of Words,
To save yourself from what man deserves.
The Word is Life, the Word is Love,
Mankind’s Bounty from God above.
Oh that we could all find the path,
To perfect obedience, a Faith that lasts.
Read the Word, Pray the Word,
Live the Word, spread the Word,
Find all the searching and loving hearts,
And from Gods Word do not depart.
(TBS4/01/2013)
Regards Tony
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daler
Guest
From the perspective of a plant which says: “I have received sunlight 3 days ago. I have no need of further sunlight.” and then says to other plants, “What is the proof of the sun which you claim to be gathering sunlight from?”Well, personally, I haven’t made any accusations against Bahaullah. I am just asking for some sort of demonstration for his divinity.
Is it your belief that I could achieve eternal salvation (or whatever is the equivalent of this as Bahais understand it) without Bahaullah?
The Baha’i response is that it is “the same sun” which shed light in the past. We might say that the the sun of Abraham was Monday, the sun of Moses was called Tuesday, the sun of Jesus was Wednesday, or the sun of Muhammad was Thursday. Now the sun of the Bab has appeared as Friday, followed by the sun of Baha’u’llah. What is important is that the Dawn of a New Day has occurred, in which the same resplendent Light of the Eternal Sun has shed Its luminous rays upon the horizon of the souls of men, beckoning them to come out of the darkness, as the sun beckons the seed to remove itself from the dust, and not to fear the light, for it is the same light shed in the past in fuller measure.
Whether the leaves of the hearts unfold to receive the Light of that same Sun in this day or prefer to remain untouched will itself provide the proof that is needed or withheld from the soul. The proofs of the sun are inherent in the light itself. It needs no further proof. The proofs of the Spiritual Sun are inherent in the verses, which are the Light, and there are no further proofs required.
However, for those who have difficulty discerning the brightness of the sun due to its blinding light, the shadows it casts behind various objects can be deduced as proofs. Similarly, the various prophecies are offered and point towards the Light which has cast shadows upon the earth of understanding, and upon studying their forms and patterns, the direction they fall throughout time and proximity illustrates a single Source as their Cause.
. As previously mentioned, Jesus said to “Look to Daniel the Prophet”, whose vision came to him in Elam, and prophesied both the first and second coming from the same starting point, that being the issuance of the decree of Artaxerxes for the rebuilding of Jerusalem in 457 BC, and that Messiah would be “cut off” after 70 weeks (of years).
. 490 years later Jesus was crucified or cut off. 2300 years after 457 BC the Bab appeared, in Elam, in 1844, the very land where Jeremiah said He would: “The Lord shall set His throne in Elam” Elam is SW Persia.
. Both in Daniel and Revelation another date was given, that being 1260. The year 1844 AD is the year 1260 AH where, in Elam, the Lord set His throne. Isn’t that remarkable?
And in 1280, also mentioned in Daniel, which is 1863, Baha’u’llah appeared in fulfillment of that prophecy as well. Not only these, but also fulfilling the 1290 date given by Daniel, which is precisely 1290 years following the declaration of Muhammad until the declaration of Baha’u’llah, in 1863. (1280 AH is 1290 years after this occurred)
. Hence, the shadows of prophecy have been cast by One and the same Sun, from Daniel to Revelation, all acknowledged by Jesus, as signs of His Return. What a wonderful Day in which we live. Indeed, it is the Day of God, promised in all the heavenly Books.
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