Remarriage after divorce

[CaliLobo]

Simple question. Why not?

Didn’t God foresee that there would be people (including some on CAF) that married with good intentions, thinking this was the right one, but then things went to trash for reasons not their own?

Isn’t God a merciful God to allow remarriage in these situations?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I know that the Christian concept of marriage for life seems incompatible with today’s libertine culture. If the marriage was not a valid Christian marriage for some reason, the Church can grant a decree of nullity. If there is a valid marriage, a remarriage is adultery according to Christ’s teaching.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Simple question. Why not?

Didn’t God foresee that there would be people (including some on CAF) that married with good intentions, thinking this was the right one, but then things went to trash for reasons not their own?

Isn’t God a merciful God to allow remarriage in these situations?

Simple answer. Because you are thinking selfishly and obviously have not realized that God instituted marraige.

Question.

Can I leave my wife who is 2 months pregnant with our 5th? Just because I want to? I mean God will understand right?

 

[Starrsmother]

Simple question. Why not?

Didn’t God foresee that there would be people (including some on CAF) that married with good intentions, thinking this was the right one, but then things went to trash for reasons not their own?

Isn’t God a merciful God to allow remarriage in these situations?

My opinion is YES! I realize though that many others may disagree with me. However, the issue of annulment is one that Pope Francis says will be taken up by the cardinals and bishops in their synod this Fall. I think Jesus did mean for marriage to be forever—ideally… But face it, people marry abusive partners, partners who won’t support their families and even partners who decide after a number of years that they are gay–just to name a few. I personally don;t think God’s plan includes marriage to be hell on earth!

 

[mountee]

God knows all and of course He is aware that some people enter into the sacrament of marriage without truly committing. For example, the person who marries then reveals that they are gay and leave. The person who has been in a marriage like this has recourse within the Church to pursue an annulment and marry again within the Church if the annulment is granted. The process is lengthy and difficult to prevent the sacrament from being trivialized as is the marriage preparation process. Sometimes genuine people do marry someone who trash the marriage because of their lack of respect for the sacrament, the Church provides for these people if they choose to seek an annulment.

 

[gardenswithkids]

If a Catholic man and woman divorce and later they want to re-marry each other, I’m all for it! If they want to re-marry other people, that gets problematic. Among other things, it would get in the way if the couple’s potential re-union.

Marriage should be “for life” in all senses of the words “for life.” A Catholic couple that is civilly divorced from one another are still sacramentally married to one another (if they ever were sacramentally married in the first place-that’s what the annulment procedure examines.) Sacraments are vehicles of God’s grace. Civilly divorced Catholics who faithfully attempt to live out their marriage vows even if they live apart can expect God to provide great graces throughout their lives.

In the Old Testament there’s the story where God told Hosea to marry Gomer and it provided us with a wonderful example of God’s fidelity and love towards humanity.

 

[CaliLobo]

PaulfromIowa:

If there is a valid marriage, a remarriage is adultery according to Christ’s teaching.

gardenswithkids:

A Catholic couple that is civilly divorced from one another are still sacramentally married to one another…

Biblical basis?

 

[BellsMom]

Can I leave my wife who is 2 months pregnant with our 5th? Just because I want to? I mean God will understand right?

But you can right? After you divorce her you can petition the church and possibly get a ruling that god never considered you married in the first place, despite your 5 children.

I agree with your

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Going into a marriage believing that divorce is a viable option increases the odds of problems that will lead to divorce. Divorce is a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[PaulinVA]

Biblical basis?

Matthew 19

1 When Jesus* finished these words,* he left Galilee and went to the district of Judea across the Jordan.
2Great crowds followed him, and he cured them there.
3 Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him,* saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?”
4 He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’
5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”
7* d They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss [her]?”
8 He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 I say to you,* whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.”

 

[bisco]

paul in va has it right. Jesus directly addressed this problem and it will be difficult for the church to give much latitude except to possibly expand the definition of ‘unlawful marriage’.

 

[CaliLobo]

Matthew 19:9 in the ESV (the version most often used by Evangelicals) says:

"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Can we reconcile the discrepancy between the ESV and the Catholic version?

Also, in Matthew 19:8, God allowed Moses to allow divorce. So there is precedent for divorce in Christianity.
Bell(name removed by moderator):

But you can right? After you divorce her you can petition the church and possibly get a ruling that god never considered you married in the first place, despite your 5 children.

That’s not what this thread is about. Of course what you’re describing is evil. But how about the situation in which a spouse comes out as gay, or becomes bipolar, or abusive?

Do we deny the children from having a new father or mother to replace the abuser? Do we deny remarriage, and in turn possibly deny communion to someone who marries the new father or mother?

Do we deny remarriage to someone whose spouse comes out as gay? It’s not someone’s fault his or her spouse comes out as gay.

 

[Anglewannabe]

But how about the situation in which a spouse comes out as gay, or becomes bipolar, or abusive?

.

A vow in front of God is sacred. Usually the people vow ‘for better or for worse’. You have just described the ‘for worse’ which the person vowed in front of God to stay married.

After all, what I have always found odd is protestant denominations who believe in divorce still vow ‘to death to us part’. I have yet to see anyone regardless of religion or lack of to vow ‘Until divorce do us part’

Angie

 

[Igypop83]

Biblical basis?

Since we are not protestants, we do NOT believe in “sola scriptura” (Bible alone). The source of our faith is BOTH the scripture AND the tradition of the church which is pretty clear on marriage. The church has already spoken infallibly on this matter (for example on the council of trient).

 

[styrgwillidar]

A vow in front of God is sacred. Usually the people vow ‘for better or for worse’. You have just described the ‘for worse’ which the person vowed in front of God to stay married.

After all, what I have always found odd is protestant denominations who believe in divorce still vow ‘to death to us part’. I have yet to see anyone regardless of religion or lack of to vow ‘Until divorce do us part’

Angie

+1. When you take this vow, you are giving your word not just to your spouse but to God as well. Will you break your word to God? If you will break your word to God, who should trust you?

Getting married is risky, it is taking a chance on the commitment of another person. Their willingness and devotion to holding up their end of the bargain. However, you will never be able to control their actions or level of commitment to the promise they made-- only your own.

I knew what I was getting into when I took the vow. I knew I was taking a risk. If you aren’t willing to take that risk, then you shouldn’t take the vow.

I say this as a legally divorced Catholic who has lived singly since my legally ex left. (I did receive a declaration of nullity ~1.5 years after the divorce was final, I have found that keeping a stable, secure home for my kids is more important to me than companionship).

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Matthew 19:9 in the ESV (the version most often used by Evangelicals) says:

"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

Can we reconcile the discrepancy between the ESV and the Catholic version?

Also, in Matthew 19:8, God allowed Moses to allow divorce. So there is precedent for divorce in Christianity.

Oh, so the biblical basis has to be one you agree with not the one that was compiled by the Catholic Church and has been understood consistent for 2000 years?

So with Moses are you advocating that every thing God allowed or disallowed for Moses has or should have a precedence in Christianity? Hope you don’t like pork, or shellfish…

Actually when Jesus modifies the Old Law in Mt 15:11 could directly apply here

What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them."

Notice that when one gets married the “I do” comes directly out of their mouths…

 

[EasterJoy]

Simple question. Why not?

Didn’t God foresee that there would be people (including some on CAF) that married with good intentions, thinking this was the right one, but then things went to trash for reasons not their own?

Isn’t God a merciful God to allow remarriage in these situations?

If it was not possible to keep the vows or if the vows were not made in good faith and with appreciation of the meaning of Catholic marriage by both parties, that would not be a real (i.e. valid) attempt at marriage. If either or both parties made their vows in good faith and with understanding but lack the capacity, that would not be a valid marriage. IOW, vows can even be made in good faith by both parties, a true marriage that could last may still not be there. In those cases, yes, the Church will make a finding that the marriage was null and allows another attempt at marriage for persons with the capacity. (They’re not going to make a finding of permanent incapacity and then let the incapable person have another run at it…)

If, OTOH, a true marriage was made that both parties are capable of fulfilling, but one or both sins grievously, violates the marriage bed and alienates the affection in the marriage or in some other way makes living together in peace impossible, that does not make the marriage invalid. It may relieve the duty to live the conjugal life together, which in turn might make a civil divorce permissible in order to divide the assets justly, but the couple’s vows, once made validly, bind for life, for better or for worse.

God’s mercy does not mean we can presume to abandon our vows. If we are faithful, even if offended against, we will not go without our reward for our fidelity.

 

[His_helpmeet]

If it was not possible to keep the vows or if the vows were not made in good faith and with appreciation of the meaning of Catholic marriage by both parties, that would not be a real (i.e. valid) attempt at marriage. If either or both parties made their vows in good faith and with understanding but lack the capacity, that would not be a valid marriage. IOW, vows can even be made in good faith by both parties, a true marriage that could last may still not be there. In those cases, yes, the Church will make a finding that the marriage was null and allows another attempt at marriage for persons with the capacity. (They’re not going to make a finding of permanent incapacity and then let the incapable person have another run at it…)

If, OTOH, a true marriage was made that both parties are capable of fulfilling, but one or both sins grievously, violates the marriage bed and alienates the affection in the marriage or in some other way makes living together in peace impossible, that does not make the marriage invalid. It may relieve the duty to live the conjugal life together, which in turn might make a civil divorce permissible in order to divide the assets justly, but the couple’s vows, once made validly, bind for life, for better or for worse.

God’s mercy does not mean we can presume to abandon our vows. If we are faithful, even if offended against, we will not go without our reward for our fidelity.

Exactly. My DH was married for 4 years to a woman who thought marriage was “glorified common-law with ceremonial benefits” and the vows she took were “purely symbolic and ceremonial”. DH tried desperately to make a go of it, until she left him 4 years into their marriage. (Neither was Catholic when they were married (DH wasn’t even baptized), though both converted after the marriage.) She told him she wasn’t coming back. The marriage was declared invalid a few years later, and we were sacramentally married 1.5 years after our initial civil marriage. (For the record: he did NOT divorce because of me. We met a year after their separation, after they were already in the process of filing for divorce.)

DH and I decided before we were ever married that divorce was NOT an option. Generally things like domestic abuse tend to come up before a person is even married. Not to say that a person who is abused has no right to leave the marriage, but rather, that in such cases there is likely compelling evidence to suggest that the marriage was never valid in the first place. DH having been cheated on by his ex, he’s told me he would never do that to me. I would never do that to him. He’s also NEVER treated me badly. Consequently we feel that any problems we have will not be insurmountable, because divorce is not an option. We don’t have any choice but to work it out.

 

[CaliLobo]

I say this as a legally divorced Catholic who has lived singly since my legally ex left. (I did receive a declaration of nullity ~1.5 years after the divorce was final, I have found that keeping a stable, secure home for my kids is more important to me than companionship).

This is the type of situation I’m talking about. May I ask if there was a lot of anxiety with the annulment process? Did you have doubts whether an annulment could be granted in your situation? Were you invested in the outcome or at peace with it during the process?

 

[CaliLobo]

Hoosier Daddy:

Oh, so the biblical basis has to be one you agree with not the one that was compiled by the Catholic Church and has been understood consistent for 2000 years?

This is the Bible that Evangelicals believe to be inspired by God. The Bible that Evangelicals believe is necessary and sufficient to learn and practice their faith. Don’t take it so lightly.

So once again, how do we reconcile this major disparity in phrasing?

EasterJoy:

If, OTOH, a true marriage was made that both parties are capable of fulfilling, but one or both sins grievously, violates the marriage bed and alienates the affection in the marriage or in some other way makes living together in peace impossible, that does not make the marriage invalid. It may relieve the duty to live the conjugal life together, which in turn might make a civil divorce permissible in order to divide the assets justly, but the couple’s vows, once made validly, bind for life, for better or for worse.

God’s mercy does not mean we can presume to abandon our vows. If we are faithful, even if offended against, we will not go without our reward for our fidelity.

And this is another area that billions of people have trouble with. Is God really asking these people to suffer without companionship? Is God really asking these children to live in divided households, and endure the trauma that comes about later?

If one side breaks a vow, why is the other side still bound by it? That’s not how contracts work.

I know personally, if I was Catholic, got married the Catholic way, but then she left me, I will leave the Catholic Church if that’s the only way I can find someone else. Or parish shop for an annulment.

How are you guys able to live with a teaching like this?