Remarriage after divorce

[His_helpmeet]

This is the Bible that Evangelicals believe to be inspired by God. The Bible that Evangelicals believe is necessary and sufficient to learn and practice their faith. Don’t take it so lightly.

So once again, how do we reconcile this major disparity in phrasing?

And this is another area that billions of people have trouble with. Is God really asking these people to suffer without companionship? Is God really asking these children to live in divided households, and endure the trauma that comes about later?

If one side breaks a vow, why is the other side still bound by it? That’s not how contracts work.

I know personally, if I was Catholic, got married the Catholic way, but then she left me, I will leave the Catholic Church if that’s the only way I can find someone else. Or parish shop for an annulment.

How are you guys able to live with a teaching like this?

First of all, the Bible itself states that it is not enough to teach the whole Christian faith. Catholics DO believe in the Bible - but reject the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. St. Paul spoke of oral tradition. St. John wrote of things Jesus did and said that are not written. The Bible, as we know it, was not formally defined until 384 A.D., though it was around much earlier.

Jesus said very clearly, “Let no man separate what God has joined”. This is our understanding of why a sacramental marriage cannot be ended.

Prior to a Catholic marriage (assuming at least one party is Catholic) marriage preparation is required. This is often called pre-Cana. There’s at least one, maybe two or three, meetings with the priest, plus there is a marriage preparation course the couple must take, typically taught by a couple of Catholic couples and possibly a priest. The meetings are designed to allow the priest the opportunity to check for ANY reason why this couple should not be married. Are they only getting married because they were forced to (such as by pregnancy, or because one partner forced the other)? Do they intend to continue practicing their faith? Is there any indication of infidelity? What is their attitude towards having children? Do they both practice the same faith? (If one party is Catholic, that party is obligated to raise the children in the Catholic faith.) If not, is the Catholic party aware of his/her obligations? (In any mixed marriage, a dispensation, or formal permission, is required for the couple to validly marry.) Is there any history of mental disorders or substance abuse that affect the ability to give consent? Is the couple living together, and if so, for how long? (They may be required to live apart for a time, in order for them to appreciate the significance of marriage for their communal life.) Do they understand the permanent nature of marriage (i.e. that it is severed only by death, if it is a sacramental marriage)? Are they emotionally and financially prepared for marriage? How do they intend to continue working on their relationship? (Continued in next post)

 

[His_helpmeet]

The marriage preparation course prepares the couple for the realities of marriage. Topics such as communication, sexuality, natural family planning, and finances are discussed. Even things like “have you figured out yet who’s going to be responsible for things like cooking, laundry, housekeeping, and car maintenance” are discussed. We were required to go through an online evaluation called FOCCUS - Facilitating Open Couple Communication, Understanding, and Study. Each of us had to answer a questionnaire that dealt with things like finances, day-to-day life, childrearing, sexuality, faith relationship, etc. We were then provided with a copy of both of our answers at our marriage preparation course. The intent is for the FOCCUS to be a “talking paper” that allows the couple to identify areas in which potential problems/issues could arise, and to discuss things that they may have not thought to discuss. Sometimes, too, it can demonstrate that marriage is not the best option for this couple, either at the time or ever.

The Church’s intent is that it should NEVER happen that a couple married in the Catholic Church should have to receive a declaration of nullity, because any potential problems should have already been spotted, and the couple should not have been allowed to marry. The other piece is that ideally, Catholic couples should not be getting divorced because they should understand the nature of the commitment they are making. (DH and I firmly believe that if you never put divorce on the table, you can work out almost all issues because of the necessity of their being worked out.) Now, you can cite the fact that we have hundreds, if not thousands, of declarations of nullity granted each year. I won’t deny this is true. However, I would be curious as to how many cases were granted due to things like a divorced and remarried non-Catholic person coming into the Church, a non-Catholic divorced person wanting to marry a Catholic, a poorly catechized Catholic couple divorcing, etc. Effectively, if two Catholics are married in the Church and then divorce, a declaration of nullity is the Church saying, “We dropped the ball here somewhere, and we should never have allowed these two people to marry in the first place.” (My DH received a declaration of nullity from his first wife. They married because of pregnancy, she didn’t believe in the permanence of marriage, and neither was Catholic at the time so they had no marriage preparation.)

In addition, whether or not a couple is able to get a declaration of nullity does not necessarily impact on the children’s stability. Most courts now recognize that children need both of their parents in their lives (unless it is in the child’s best interests not to have a relationship with one parent). Consequently, whether or not each party remarries does not necessarily affect where the children will live, as they may likely still be going back and forth. Not to mention, step-parenting is not for everyone. (Speaking as a step-parent, I love my DSD, but I believe I’ve also been very lucky to have an exceptionally kind, well-behaved stepchild.) Step-parenting is, in and of itself, a vocation within marriage (assuming that the first marriage is either not valid or has ended, due to a Church declaration and/or the death of the ex-spouse), and definitely not one that should be entered lightly - for the sake of both spouses and the children.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…
How are you guys able to live with a teaching like this?

Because I gave my word.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This is the Bible that Evangelicals believe to be inspired by God. The Bible that Evangelicals believe is necessary and sufficient to learn and practice their faith. Don’t take it so lightly.

So once again, how do we reconcile this major disparity in phrasing?

And this is another area that billions of people have trouble with. Is God really asking these people to suffer without companionship? Is God really asking these children to live in divided households, and endure the trauma that comes about later?

If one side breaks a vow, why is the other side still bound by it? That’s not how contracts work.

I know personally, if I was Catholic, got married the Catholic way, but then she left me, I will leave the Catholic Church if that’s the only way I can find someone else. Or parish shop for an annulment.

How are you guys able to live with a teaching like this?

Who compiled this Bible and why is is different that historical accounts before the reformation? Are you saying that prior to the reformation salvation was incomplete and the rules were different?

Odd.

My question is how do you live with it the other way. Wait, I look around and see society and now I know how we live with it your way. Broken families and broken hearts and hurt children. And people who make vows and promises to each other before God and then can some how magically pretend that vow did not mean anything.

Remember, it was a selfish reason for divorce that prompted this change anyway.

King James.

 

[styrgwillidar]

This is the type of situation I’m talking about. May I ask if there was a lot of anxiety with the annulment process? Did you have doubts whether an annulment could be granted in your situation? Were you invested in the outcome or at peace with it during the process?

CaliLobo,

I’ve written a lot on the forums, you can search for my story.

Anxiety? Not really, I was looking for truth. I did not understand what had occurred completely. Yes, although I believed there were grounds, I did have doubts whether a declaration of nullity would be granted. But I was comfortable with it going either way, I just wanted to know the truth, to have things reviewed by folks who’d seen a lot of this, the breakdown of marriages and the circumstances at the start. I found it very useful and helpful in reading all the witness testimony and the decisions. Ultimately, I knew my options. Better to know when I didn’t care, than to have something starting with someone where it wasn’t really possible. Risking hurting even more people.

I also still cared for my spouse, they had abandoned the teachings of the Church, weren’t going to be the one to request a declaration of nullity. I felt that if I could relingquish my last hold on them, it would make things easier for them to reconcile with Christ and His Church in the future. If I truly loved them, should I be more concerned for their soul, or for retaining a link? A link which may heve been illusory?

The longer I saw what her decisions and actions were doing to my kids, the more I saw the Church’s wisdom in discouraging divorce. As well as the wisdom of taking the time to analyze, pause, heal and understand myself after the break-up. To keep from creating more instability in my children’s lives in a rush to provide a bandage to my ego in a new relationship.

 

[styrgwillidar]

…
Do we deny the children from having a new father or mother to replace the abuser?

…

Wanted to address this seperately:

The step parent is a step parent. No matter how flawed their mother or father is, to the child they are Mom or Dad, no one can replace that. The child will always want a connection with their Mom and Dad, even if they are disappointed in them, even if they don’t respect what Mom or Dad has done, even if they don’t personally like them. They may like their step-parents better than Mom or Dad, they may respect them more, they may even believe/realize their step-parent loves them more than their own Mom or Dad. But they’ll still want some kind of relationship/connection. One of the most tragic things people do to kids in divorces is get in the way of the relationship with the other parent. No matter what you think of that other parent, to the child that is still their Mother or Father. Their only Mother or Father.

The step-parent is not a new father or mother in any way, shape or form to the child. They are not a replacement, they are another authority figure in the child’s life.

 

[Xantippe]

Wanted to address this seperately:

The step parent is a step parent. No matter how flawed their mother or father is, to the child they are Mom or Dad, no one can replace that. The child will always want a connection with their Mom and Dad, even if they are disappointed in them, even if they don’t respect what Mom or Dad has done, even if they don’t personally like them. They may like their step-parents better than Mom or Dad, they may respect them more, they may even believe/realize their step-parent loves them more than their own Mom or Dad. But they’ll still want some kind of relationship/connection. One of the most tragic things people do to kids in divorces is get in the way of the relationship with the other parent. No matter what you think of that other parent, to the child that is still their Mother or Father. Their only Mother or Father.

The step-parent is not a new father or mother in any way, shape or form to the child. They are not a replacement, they are another authority figure in the child’s life.

Yes.

If my husband were to leave me, for whatever reason, religion aside, finding a new man would be the very last thing on my mind. I have kids to raise, and they would not understand having some strange man in our home instead of their daddy. And as I said, that’s setting religion completely to the side. A lot of non-Catholic divorced parents who have no moral objection to remarriage don’t date while they have kids at home.

Step-families and blended families are very easy to screw up.

And I would feel very similarly if my husband died–I hope I would be in no particular hurry to “replace” him, as he isn’t replaceable.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Yes.

If my husband were to leave me, for whatever reason, religion aside, finding a new man would be the very last thing on my mind. I have kids to raise, and they would not understand having some strange man in our home instead of their daddy. And as I said, that’s setting religion completely to the side. A lot of non-Catholic divorced parents who have no moral objection to remarriage don’t date while they have kids at home.

Step-families and blended families are very easy to screw up.

And I would feel very similarly if my husband died–I hope I would be in no particular hurry to “replace” him, as he isn’t replaceable.

I’m sure a lot of it has to do with the ages of the kids, initially. I’m kind of limited to my own experience and my kids were older when my now legally ex sacramentally never was decided to move out. There are great, great step-parents who are truly wonderful in that role, that really love their step-kids and raise them as their own. But they aren’t a new father or mother- they’re not some kind of replacement for a defective parent. They are an addition to, not a replacement.

Each person wants some kind of connection with their biological parent. They’ll still think of them as Mom or Dad. Most adopted kids, once they find out they’re adopted want to know something about their biological parents. I suspect that younger kids who’ve been raised primarily by a step-parent, will still want to understand/know about their Mother or Father and have a connection, even if limited, when they get older.

 

[His_helpmeet]

Wanted to address this seperately:

The step parent is a step parent. No matter how flawed their mother or father is, to the child they are Mom or Dad, no one can replace that. The child will always want a connection with their Mom and Dad, even if they are disappointed in them, even if they don’t respect what Mom or Dad has done, even if they don’t personally like them. They may like their step-parents better than Mom or Dad, they may respect them more, they may even believe/realize their step-parent loves them more than their own Mom or Dad. But they’ll still want some kind of relationship/connection. One of the most tragic things people do to kids in divorces is get in the way of the relationship with the other parent. No matter what you think of that other parent, to the child that is still their Mother or Father. Their only Mother or Father.

The step-parent is not a new father or mother in any way, shape or form to the child. They are not a replacement, they are another authority figure in the child’s life.

Exactly. As a SM myself, I’m very careful about this. DSD knows that her mother has made some pretty serious mistakes (she was living with, and pregnant by, another man before she had even legally divorced DH). That said, I’ve been very careful to help her understand that it is NOT my job to replace her mother, and that making mistakes doesn’t make her mother a bad person. DH has tried to be careful in this regard, too.

If the parents separate and divorce due to abuse when the children are old enough to remember the split (I would say from about preschool age or so and up) the child will likely still want to have a relationship with the abuser, even though he/she knows that Mommy/Daddy did some bad things. In such cases, as long as it’s in the best interest of the child for a relationship to exist, the court will try to provide a way for the child to have contact with both parents. (For example, an abusive parent might be awarded supervised visitation.) Access is defined as the right of the child to have a relationship with both parents, not the right of the parent to have access to the child.

When I speak of legal rights and terms, I am referring specifically to the legal procedures/statutes in the area where I live. This is NOT intended to be legal advice. In a similar situation, you should consult a lawyer and/or the legal statutes/procedures for your area.

 

[gardenswithkids]

This is the Bible that Evangelicals believe to be inspired by God. The Bible that Evangelicals believe is necessary and sufficient to learn and practice their faith. Don’t take it so lightly.

So once again, how do we reconcile this major disparity in phrasing?

And this is another area that billions of people have trouble with. Is God really asking these people to suffer without companionship? Is God really asking these children to live in divided households, and endure the trauma that comes about later?

If one side breaks a vow, why is the other side still bound by it? That’s not how contracts work.

I know personally, if I was Catholic, got married the Catholic way, but then she left me, I will leave the Catholic Church if that’s the only way I can find someone else. Or parish shop for an annulment.

How are you guys able to live with a teaching like this?

To answer some of your questions:
Marriage from a Catholic perspective is a Sacrament not a contract.
Not all Protestants view marriage as a Sacrament. King Henry the Eighthbroke off from the Catholic Church over the issue of his divorce and remarriage.

The Bible was translated from Greek (and other languages) and the particular word used doesn’t exactly have an English word. At one time I knew the Greek word and as I understood it, the word related to some type of irregularity in the marriage from the start that also relates to sexual morality, so it gets translated in different ways.

I am able to live with a teaching like this because it helps keep my husband and me together through “for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.” Marriage isn’t always easy or blissful, but if people pack up and leave when times get tough, they will miss out on the good times that may follow. I don’t live in fear that my husband will trademe Iin for a newer model as I get older because my husband also embraces this teaching. Our children don’t live in fear that their home will be torn apart. I also knew this teaching before I got married and so I chose wisely the first time around because I expected it to be the one and only time.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

To answer some of your questions:
Marriage from a Catholic perspective is a Sacrament not a contract.
Not all Protestants view marriage as a Sacrament. King Henry the Eighthbroke off from the Catholic Church over the issue of his divorce and remarriage. The Bible was translated from Greek and the particular word used doesn’t exactly have an English word.
At one time I knew the Greek word and as I understood it, the word related to some type of irregularity in the marriage from the start.
I am able to live with a teaching like this because it helps keep my husband and me together through “for better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.” Marriage isn’t always easy or blissful, but if people pack up and leave when times get tough, they will miss out on the good times that may follow. I don’t live in fear that my husband will trademe Iin for a newer model as I get older because my husband also embraces this teaching. Our children don’t live in fear that their home will be torn apart. I also knew this teaching before I got married and so I chose wisely the first time around because I expected it to be the one and only time.

King Henry the Eighth

Yeah, that guy.:doh2:

 

[Jennifer_Chan]

the problem I see here is people are condemning those of us who are divorced and not planning on ever getting remarried…so the divorce is because of lack of love on one partners side…I did get a divorce but not because I wanted it…I was forced into giving it because I was told if I did not give it then he would make my life a living hell…we were only married for 8 months…after the divorce I made a promise that I would never marry again…well…things change and I did marry another…but this one I married was not the cause of the divorce…this person was found several years after my divorce…my first husband was remarried shortly after the divorce so as you can see it was a lack of love on his part…I thank God for this second marriage as it has lasted for almost 2 years now…at least I finally feel loved and not used like in my first marriage…and I certainly don’t feel like I am condemned to hell for it…and “NO” I did not get my first marriage annulled as I could not afford it and still cant…it is up to God to decide my punishment…NOT MAN…

 

[CaliLobo]

the problem I see here is people are condemning those of us who are divorced and not planning on ever getting remarried…so the divorce is because of lack of love on one partners side…I did get a divorce but not because I wanted it…I was forced into giving it because I was told if I did not give it then he would make my life a living hell…we were only married for 8 months…after the divorce I made a promise that I would never marry again…well…things change and I did marry another…but this one I married was not the cause of the divorce…this person was found several years after my divorce…my first husband was remarried shortly after the divorce so as you can see it was a lack of love on his part…I thank God for this second marriage as it has lasted for almost 2 years now…at least I finally feel loved and not used like in my first marriage…and I certainly don’t feel like I am condemned to hell for it…and “NO” I did not get my first marriage annulled as I could not afford it and still cant…it is up to God to decide my punishment…NOT MAN…

See, exactly… does the Catholic Church have any answers for this?

 

[Jennifer_Chan]

It is god who will judge me…not you!!! I thank god for this second marriage as this will be my final one!!! If i am condemned for this it is by gods word…not yours!!!

 

[bisco]

See, exactly… does the Catholic Church have any answers for this?

i don’t see a question?

 

[Jennifer_Chan]

I don’t remember what I wrote here but I believe I wrote this:
GOD WILL JUDGE ME…NOT MAN!!!
You have absolutely NO RIGHT to condemn me…that is for GOD AND GOD ALONE! I still thank God for this second marriage! So go ahead and condemn me but remember that God did say that those who condemn are they themselves condemned!!!

 

[bisco]

who is condemning you?

 

[Jennifer_Chan]

EVERYBODY CONDEMNS ME…no matter what Catholic site I go to they all say that I am condemned to hell just because I divorced and remarried…they also tell me that I am not welcomed into any Catholic church…that makes me feel awful…I know that I cant receive Jesus through Communion but does that mean Jesus no longer loves me?? I will never believe that as I am extremely grateful to God for this second marriage…I never did go for an annulment as I couldn’t and still cant afford it…that marriage only lasted 8 months…the marriage I am in now has lasted for just about 2 years…I am not even the one who wanted the divorce but was forced into giving it as he told me that if I didn’t give it to him he was going to make my life a living hell so I gave in…it was shortly after the divorce that he remarried which kind of gave me the idea that he was not faithful during his marriage to me…I never intended to remarry but things change and I will say they absolutely changed for the better as I have never been happier…my first marriage was back in 1994…I got remarried in 2012 so as you can see it was quite some time before I even trusted another man…I LOVE GOD WITH ALL MY HEART AND NOBODY IS GOING TO SCARE ME INTO THINKING THAT HE DOESNT!!!

 

[bisco]

let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

[Jennifer_Chan]

Thank you so much…i know god loves me and i love him and i thank you for making me feel so much better…god bless!!!