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bisco
Guest
and God bless you too. please call you parish priest and have a long conversation with him. i know you’ll feel better when you understand your situation.
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PaulinVA
Guest
Jennifer, in this instance the Church is quite clear on her teaching, and the actual words of Jesus in the Gospel are also quite clear.
Instead of obstinately going your own way and a relying on “throwing yourself on the mercy of the court”, so to speak, I think you should aggressively pursue a decree of nullity. The Church has given you this path to reconciliation.
You should follow the path given, even if it means asking for any fees to be waived. This is important. I wish you the best and hope that this works out for you.
Instead of obstinately going your own way and a relying on “throwing yourself on the mercy of the court”, so to speak, I think you should aggressively pursue a decree of nullity. The Church has given you this path to reconciliation.
You should follow the path given, even if it means asking for any fees to be waived. This is important. I wish you the best and hope that this works out for you.
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Xantippe
Guest
Yes.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Jennifer, have you talked to your priest? The fees for petitioning for a declaration of nullity are very modest, and in our diocese will be waived for those who can’t afford them. I know there can be fear and apprehension that you may not get the answer you want. Pray over it, if you think you will ever want to petition in the future-- the earlier you do it, the more likely you are to be able to locate witnesses. On the annulment forum there are many folks who decide to try late in life, only to have a hard time locating any witnesses.Thank you so much…i know god loves me and i love him and i thank you for making me feel so much better…god bless!!!
I well know that one can’t control whether you get divorced, at least in much of the US with no fault divorce there is no way to prevent your spouse if they want it.
Assuredly, God loves you and wants you to be with Him in heaven. But there is a reason He came to earth and preached and ministered to us as His people. He said that if we love Him, we will keep His commandments. God bless you and yours always.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
Your posts could be written almost word for word about SS"M"
Yes, God will judge you and he gave you the scriptures and the Church to help you to know the standard of which he will judge.
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Mackus
Guest
Jennifer, my wife and I were previously divorced, remarried, and had a child together before we thought about converting to Catholicism. We both also have children from our previous marriages that we have custody of. Coming from a protestant background, we didn’t know what we had done was wrong until we learned so through RCIA or else we would not have married each other to begin until our previous marriages were resolved. We talked about how committed we were about becoming Catholic and agreed to stop having any sexual relations until our situation was taken care of and immediately repented through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. We started the annulment process and continued on with the RCIA classes knowing that we may not be able to come into the church at the same time as our children on Easter. I started doing some research about our situation and came across paragraph 1650 of the Catechism which states
“Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery” The Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.”
We brought this to our priest and talked about it in depth recognizing this would be a great commitment to continue what we both had already started and also realizing the possibility of living this way for the rest of our lives if an annulment wasn’t granted. So, with the continued counseling from our priest, we were allowed to come into the church at Easter with the children as a family and continue to live in complete continence waiting for our annulment process to complete.
I learned and continue to learn, through complete faith in God and prayer, anything is possible.
“Today there are numerous Catholics in many countries who have recourse to civil divorce and contract new civil unions. In fidelity to the words of Jesus Christ - “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery” The Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively contravenes God’s law. Consequently, they cannot receive Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they cannot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacrament of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.”
We brought this to our priest and talked about it in depth recognizing this would be a great commitment to continue what we both had already started and also realizing the possibility of living this way for the rest of our lives if an annulment wasn’t granted. So, with the continued counseling from our priest, we were allowed to come into the church at Easter with the children as a family and continue to live in complete continence waiting for our annulment process to complete.
I learned and continue to learn, through complete faith in God and prayer, anything is possible.
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MJJean
Guest
Jennifer, I am divorced and remarried. I am welcomed with open arms every week at Mass and my daughter and I regularly volunteer. I am unable to receive Eucharist until I have an annulment and my current marriage is convalidated, but I have faith it will happen and I use the time while everyone is receiving to pray for annulment and the folks here at the forum.
The Church will make a payment arrangement, reduce fees, or even remove fees for those who cannot afford to pay. Please, speak with your priest.
The Church will make a payment arrangement, reduce fees, or even remove fees for those who cannot afford to pay. Please, speak with your priest.
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Thorns
Guest
The excerpt with the wording Cali quoted is not his interpretation nor is it that of Evangelicals. The greek word that is used is “Porneia” which translates to sexual immorality. Its pretty plainly written, so how do we get around that?Oh, so the biblical basis has to be one you agree with not the one that was compiled by the Catholic Church and has been understood consistent for 2000 years?
So with Moses are you advocating that every thing God allowed or disallowed for Moses has or should have a precedence in Christianity? Hope you don’t like pork, or shellfish…
Actually when Jesus modifies the Old Law in Mt 15:11 could directly apply here
Notice that when one gets married the “I do” comes directly out of their mouths…
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Thorns
Guest
Jennifer, no one has condemned you here and nobody does, but it certainly sounds like you suffer from a guilty conscience.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
I’m sure that in 2000 years the Church has addressed this… Or do we think we found the one thing that can disprove the Church just now? Are we to think that the Church, which compiled the Bible, can be disproved by that same Bible? Odd.
Plus we are not talking about divorce here. That is permitted. It is remarriage that is not. Nothing to “get around” in that verse at all.
But, as Catholics, we don’t look to “get around” things at all. But rather to live our lives to the fullness and Holiness that God intends.
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Thorns
Guest
Divorce isnt the issue sure, but it does say “and marries another…EXCEPT for sexual immorality, commits adultery”I’m sure that in 2000 years the Church has addressed this… Or do we think we found the one thing that can disprove the Church just now? Are we to think that the Church, which compiled the Bible, can be disproved by that same Bible? Odd.
Plus we are not talking about divorce here. That is permitted. It is remarriage that is not. Nothing to “get around” in that verse at all.
But, as Catholics, we don’t look to “get around” things at all. But rather to live our lives to the fullness and Holiness that God intends.
It sounds like remarriage is permitted only if sexual immorality was involved.
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Bibbit
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I do not mean for what I what I write to be read or heard as disparaging, I really do not. It’s hard to write about this and not step on toes. So please don’t see it that way. I want everybody in church. And I pray they hear God’s word and are changed by it. That they allow God to speak to them through His bride. And I know I need grace more than anybody. Assuming I get into Purgatory, I’ll see many folks come and go before I get out.
Why is everybody ignoring this part of Matthew 19:“The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.””
In other words. the folks to whom Jesus was speaking had the same thoughts as those of you here who believe divorce is fine and it’s up to you and God. But Jesus didn’t then go on and make excuses and say, “But hey, ya know, if your spouse leaves you and like, you weren’t happy, don’t sweat it. Likewise if your spouse cheats on you, don’t sweat it.” (I have a friend who attends a liberal mainline church and he thinks Jesus spoke that way.) This marriage stuff is indeed hard, and I know it from personal experience, but as somebody already said, this falls under the “or worse” part of the promise made.
Look back again at verse 8: “He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. **9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.””
He didn’t say God granted divorce, he said Moses allowed it. But from the beginning it was not so. We were made, from the beginning, to stay as one. As to the sexual immorality part in the ESV translation, there are topics here that cover that. But I look at it this way: if He did indeed say that, then everybody gets a pass on marriage and can divorce. Want to get divorced and marry another? Just sleep with the person you want to marry. Your spouse can then get a divorce, and all you have to do is go to confession. All is then good and you get what you want.
Some of the talk here, if carried through, can also mean that nobody goes to Hell. We can always say we didn’t really understand, or we weren’t really prepared. At least not properly prepared. We can say, “God knows I cared, but I was unhappy and I deserved to practice those sins. Committing those sins made me happy, so why shouldn’t I get into Heaven with all the other saints?” The expectation being God will reply, “You’re right! Silly me, head on in. Peter, oh Peter! Please hold the door open for this mighty saint!” Honestly, I do not want to be mean, I say it to show where it can lead, and what I know many actually think regarding sin in general. Just look at the lines to confession. They are very short, often non-existent.
Why is everybody ignoring this part of Matthew 19:“The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry.””
In other words. the folks to whom Jesus was speaking had the same thoughts as those of you here who believe divorce is fine and it’s up to you and God. But Jesus didn’t then go on and make excuses and say, “But hey, ya know, if your spouse leaves you and like, you weren’t happy, don’t sweat it. Likewise if your spouse cheats on you, don’t sweat it.” (I have a friend who attends a liberal mainline church and he thinks Jesus spoke that way.) This marriage stuff is indeed hard, and I know it from personal experience, but as somebody already said, this falls under the “or worse” part of the promise made.
Look back again at verse 8: “He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. **9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.””
He didn’t say God granted divorce, he said Moses allowed it. But from the beginning it was not so. We were made, from the beginning, to stay as one. As to the sexual immorality part in the ESV translation, there are topics here that cover that. But I look at it this way: if He did indeed say that, then everybody gets a pass on marriage and can divorce. Want to get divorced and marry another? Just sleep with the person you want to marry. Your spouse can then get a divorce, and all you have to do is go to confession. All is then good and you get what you want.
Some of the talk here, if carried through, can also mean that nobody goes to Hell. We can always say we didn’t really understand, or we weren’t really prepared. At least not properly prepared. We can say, “God knows I cared, but I was unhappy and I deserved to practice those sins. Committing those sins made me happy, so why shouldn’t I get into Heaven with all the other saints?” The expectation being God will reply, “You’re right! Silly me, head on in. Peter, oh Peter! Please hold the door open for this mighty saint!” Honestly, I do not want to be mean, I say it to show where it can lead, and what I know many actually think regarding sin in general. Just look at the lines to confession. They are very short, often non-existent.
How does one go about becoming formally welcomed into the Church when one potentially has a major impediment? It would be like the LA Kings signing a player they know may have a serious injury that can’t be repaired, but giving him millions before they even have a doctor look at him. Why would they give a man money to be a Kings player when he possibly doesn’t qualify? I realize that you’re probably going to get an annulment, but you don’t yet have one. Coming into the Church means receiving sacraments of baptism, etc… Yet you say you are abstaining from the Eucharist. I’m wondering how that works. Mind elaborating on it?
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Peebo
Guest
So for arguments sake lets say two people both baptized Protestants…both athiests or agnostics…get married in a civil ceremony…no vow before God…no mention of religion whatsoever…years later they divorce…one becomes Catholic…he/she eventually wants to get married to a Catholic…but can’t because he/she was previously married…and would need an annulment…so why??..that person didn’t believe in God…or doubted…didn’t get married in a church…not one religious word or vow…yet the church says it’s a valid marriage in Gods eyes…how can that be…it was a marriage sanctioned by the state…under state law,not the church…no vow before God…I can understand what the church teaches on divorce and remarriage for those who were married in a Catholic ceremony…but why should those who were previously married outside the church now have that marriage tied to Catholic teaching…seems to me like there should be some sort of special dispensation for those people because they were not Catholic…and didn’t follow Catholic teaching…or maybe any religious teaching…of course when they become Catholic from then on they are obligated to follow Catholic teaching…as a married Catholic I know what the churches teaches on this subject…I can’t say I agree how it applies to those who were previously Protestants…athiests.or agnostics…
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Bibbit
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Protestants are Christians too. I think that’s the issue.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
As a Catholic, what is your answer to this? Has the Church overlooked this for 2000 years? Did they just not know it was in the Bible?Divorce isnt the issue sure, but it does say “and marries another…EXCEPT for sexual immorality, commits adultery”
It sounds like remarriage is permitted only if sexual immorality was involved.
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Hawkiz
Guest
Me too! While I have been asked, and have complied, to abstain from the Eucharist before and during the annulment process, I have been more than welcomed in my Catholic Church. I had to take the first step to humble myself and sit down with my priest…and he was the first to make certain that it was clear that the Church still wanted me to be part of it.
Jennifer, I pray that you will seek to be part of the Church that still loves you. It is possible to obtain an annulment without spending a single dime. The Church is not ‘in business’ - it is ‘in love’. Ask for help, and I am confident that you shall receive it!
Peace in Christ
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Peebo
Guest
Protestants take marriage seriously…and divorce…but they also believe in a forgiving God in regards to allowing remarriage…Eastern Orthodox churches which are in full communion with Rome also allow remarriage
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CaliLobo
Guest
Yes. Don’t Catholics believe in a forgiving God that forgives past mistakes, when it comes to remarriage?
Protestants do, and that is another reason why Evangelical churches are booming and the Catholic church is shrinking.
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Peebo
Guest
We change the meaning…just like we accuse Protestants of changing the meaning of scripture
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
So to heck with the Truth. Lets just put behinds in the seats? The Islamic faith is growing even more so than the evangelical one. Perhaps we should adopt their marriage philosophies.
If you wish to join the “church growing the most”. Then Allah be with you.
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