Remarriage, confession, and receiving the Eucharist

[KitSileya]

A long post - sorry, but this has bothered me since yesterday.

After Mass yesterday, I ended up having a cup of coffee with a friend. She’s a cradle Catholic from Asia, while I am a convert. She’s in love with guy who’s not Catholic, and who she thinks is divorced. As we were talking, the conversation turned to this guy, and how she would marry him if he was interested, and I said that in the eyes of the Church, she couldn’t marry him if he were divorced. He’d have to see if his first marriage is valid, and if it wasn’t, he’d never been married at all, as there is no divorce in the Church. Either you are married, and you stay married until one of you dies, or you were never married at all. And that in order for there to be a valid marriage, both have to be consenting adults, free from pressure, be aware of the ‘sacramentality’ of marriage, and not have a living ‘former’ spouse. Both have to promise before witnesses to be faithful to each other unto death, and then the couple give each other the sacrament the first time they consummate the marriage. And that because this is a sacrament that comes from the spouses and is not given by a priest, even non-Catholics can have a valid sacramental marriage. She said that she’d heard of people who’d divorced because of adultery, how a Catholic priest had told a relative of hers after his wife had married her lover that he could marry again. I reiterated that then either the priest was wrong, or the situation related worngly, as there was no divorce in the Church.

Then she said that she could marry in the Protestant church he belongs to, at which point I said that, yes she could contract a legal marriage there, but not in the eyes of the Church and that in order to receive Communion, she would have to go to confession, and if she could not repent living in sin, with the intent of not doing it again, her sins would not be absolved,a nd she could not go to the Lord’s table with the proper intention (as per John, ch6) and that she would be ‘eating herself to judgement.’ She started to quibble about Confession, about how she didn’t see the need to go to a priest to confess her sins, when she could just confess them to God, and I said the priest is in God’s stead when he absolves our sins, but that if we don’t confess to a priest, we don’t receive the sacrament. I think our communication broke down a little here (English isn’t her first language) as she grasped onto what I said about the priest being in God’s stead and how she could go directly to God to confess.

I then tried to explain about the words and actions that are needed to make up a sacrament, about how for example, you cannot baptize someone in the name of the father etc and then use cocoa instead of water (she thought that was silly - as long as it was wet and the words were said, should it be valid?)

I must say I was shocked at how little this cradle Catholic knew about her own Church. She disputed with me on the belief that the Church held the truth, that since we are Catholics, more is expected of us - our rejection of the Church’s teachings is more devastating because we are given more of the truth. A heathen who’s never heard of Jesus cannot be faulted for not believing in him, but we, who are members of His Church have stated that we believe the Church holds the truth when we were confirmed, and if we go against that, our souls are in jeopardy. She seemed to hold to the belief that it’s God who decides, and that the Church is too presumptuous when it judges like that, and that I was to be pitied to be so bound by the Church’s teachings (!),

I’m not sure where to start on this - I guess I want confirmation that what I said is indeed orthodox, the bible verses the Church bases its teachings on, and commiseration?

 

[Sillara]

Yes, you are correct. There are a few minor issues, like the point at which the couple gives each other the Sacrament (at the swearing of their oath; it is made indissoluble the first time they consummate their union), and the requirement of knowing about the “sacramentality” of marriage for it to be valid. Even that is not necessary. You were even more right than you had supposed because contracting a valid marriage is not quite so difficult as you had stated.

You are correct about what you told her about receiving Communion in a state of unrepentant sin, about confessing to the priest, and about . . . well, everything.

Unfortunately, people do not like to be told that things they want to do are wrong. They resent it, and they try to justify their actions. Nothing they can say or do, however, makes them right.

Hang in there!

The sanctity of marriage is one of my burdens in life. I want to tell people about it as often as I can. Don’t give up!

 

[JanetF]

IMHO, cradle catholics born in the 60’s, were exposed to catholic lite, myself included. It was went I went to college and took theology courses (required at a Jesuit institution) that I learned about the history of the Catholic church. I’m still learning of course, but even my mother admits that my catechism was not what she would have hoped. She was raised in a large city and went to catholic school, including university, whereas in my small town it was public school and saturday catechism for 1 hr. My father was not catholic, so although she raised us in the faith, the support system in my hometown was not supportive.

Today although my daughter goes to public school, and her religion classes are once a week as well, I spend a lot of time discussing my faith with her. Luckily I AM married to a catholic, so she gets exposure from daddy as well.

 

[KitSileya]

Thank you, Sillara. I had a feeling that I was right on most of it. I think part of her defensiveness came from her irritation with me, tho’. I have a pretty good memory, and have read a lot of stuff, so I can sound pretty besserwisser when I’m on a roll (not to mention, it makes it pretty impossible to get someone to play Trivial Pursuit with me more than once ). In addition, I think she had the attitude that she didn’t like someone telling her she was wrong when it came to the faith she has grown up in - especially not someone who ‘came late to the party’, so to speak.

We saw each other on the church steps after service today, and said hello, but she said she wanted some time alone to walk around and meditate after the service, which I totally understand. I just hope that her decision wasn’t also colored by negative feelings towards me. I’ve been discerning my vocation as a Lay Dominican, and have been extra sensitive to the apologetic part of that vocation - but I’d make a terrible preacher if I alienate everyone I try to get to the faith!

JanetF, I hear you on the cathecism classes. The swing back towards the center that Pope benedict XVI has instituted is really after my own heart. We have rules, and those aren’t relative - nor are they always comfortable, even for the ultra-devout. I believe we do need to teach people what the teachings of the Church is - and that doing that will bring many people to the Church, and back to it. People like having clear rules, really. This wishy-washy ‘do as you like’ was what I couldn’t abide in the Protestant church I left behind, and I think many are getting tired of it in society in general, too.

 

[DebChris]

My parish bulletin includes “dear Padre” questions (www.liguori.org). Several months ago, one of the letters asked why converts seemed to know more about the Catholic faith then he did, as a cradle Catholic. In answering the question, the author pointed to what we learn as children versus what we learn as adults. Adult catechism will naturally have more substance than what is presented to a young child.
It is true that the Sacrament of Matrimony is indissoluble. Unlike other Sacraments, it is the couple who give the Sacrament to one another while the priest serves as witness.The marriage must be consumated to be considered valid.

 

[Phemie]

My parish bulletin includes “dear Padre” questions (www.liguori.org). Several months ago, one of the letters asked why converts seemed to know more about the Catholic faith then he did, as a cradle Catholic. In answering the question, the author pointed to what we learn as children versus what we learn as adults. Adult catechism will naturally have more substance than what is presented to a young child.
It is true that the Sacrament of Matrimony is indissoluble. Unlike other Sacraments, it is the couple who give the Sacrament to one another while the priest serves as witness.The marriage must be consumated to be considered valid.

No, it need not be consummated to be considered valid, although it can be dissolved if not consummated.

 

[Sillara]

Thank you, Sillara. I’ve been discerning my vocation as a Lay Dominican, and have been extra sensitive to the apologetic part of that vocation - but I’d make a terrible preacher if I alienate everyone I try to get to the faith!

I’ve been doing the same thing! My husband and I start formation on Wednesday!