"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy" (Ex 20:8).

[Nicea325]

You know Richard, to apply this literally as you have here puts us spending eternity staring at the rotting carcases. Obviously, you’ve missed a few things in your interpretation. You are putting one day of the week, Saturday, above all others as the one acceptable day of worship and rest. Saturday is arbitary, the commandment sets forth the principle of resting on the “seventh” day. Thats not a name. Thats an ordinal number. Which day is the seventh depends on how you count them. The idea of going out of ones house to worship on this seventh day… that is not even in the commandment, it says to stay home and REST.

Christians rest in Jesus, not in a day. Sunday isn’t even considered a sabbath, its a feast day to gather and worship and give thanks, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus.
It fulfills the spirit of the commandment, to set aside one day in seven, but it doesn’t replace the old shadow that Christians are not bound to keep, there is no need. Christians can certainly rest and worship on Saturday if they want to, but there is no reason to condemn those who do not.

Marysroses

Amen! Well it is good to know a former SDA acknowledges the error of the SDA. Trust me, I once spent nearly 6 months discussing it with a SDA clearly showing him how SDA have it wrong. Unfortunately some rather adhere to misinterpretations of men or women (aka Ellen G. White) then to God.

 

[meltzerboy]

Ex20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Hi Publisher
I have reproduced here the fouth commandment. Could you show me where in this commandment there is anythig about “ritual observances” that point to Christ? It does talk about the creator God, which is Jesus, but nothing about His incarnation. How about Ex.31
13Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

14Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

15Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

16Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

18And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

The Lord says that this is a PERPETUAL covenant and that it is a sign between Him and the children of Israel. This is the sign talked about in Isaiah 66

18For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

A sign to the Gentiles that God’s people is the people that keep His commandments and not the commandments of men.

It goes on in Isaiah 66

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and the new earth and they will go out to view the carcasses of them that do not. Which one do you want to be a viewer or the viewed?

As a Jew, Richard, I agree with you on the point that Saturday is the eternal Sabbath. However, I certainly wouldn’t condemn any Christian for observing Sunday as the Lord’s Day instead of Saturday, or considering every day to be a Sabbath. I am curious regarding which branch of Protestantism you belong to which observes the Sabbath on Saturday, if not Seventh-Day Adventist.

 

[MarysRoses]

The following article highlights the absurdity of making an issue of sin worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday, as Adventists do…

bbc.co.uk/news/world-13334229

On December 29, Somoa will jump ahead one day and join Austrailia and New Zealand on the East side of the internaional Dateline. For Somoa in 2011, Friday December 30 will simply not exist. Go to bed on Thursday the 29th, wake up on Saturday the 31st.

I wonder what Adventists will do? Get up and go to church since its Saturday? But wait, That would only be the 6th day from Sunday, not the 7th!! Wait seven days and continue their cycle, oh migosh no, that would put them going to church on Sunday with all the apostate Sunday keeping Christians… what to do???

Some adventists are arguing to keep the ‘seventh’ day by the western hemisphere and to go church on Sunday. Some argue this will destroy their identiy and ‘witness’ regarding the Sabbath.

This just highlights the pitfalls of holding one day above another.

And I’ll answer Richards claim that Catholics also follow the dateline regarding Sunday.
Yes we do, but its an entirely different matter. We do not claim a biblical command to observe a particilar day. We follow the direction of our local bishop, as we do with all feasts and observances. The dateline is not an issue, other than as a matter of scheduling.

Marysroses

 

[John7]

Hebrews4
**8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Verse 8 is saying that “IF Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.” In other words JESUS DID NOT CHANGE THE SABBATH DAY.
**

you do mean Jesus ie, Joshua ben Nun right? You do realize that its not talking about Jesus Christ in this verse? Like in Acts 7.45. Only a KJV-onlyists would insist this verse is talking about Jesus Christ. No modern translation (not even the old YLT) translates Jesus as in Jesus Christ there. Its talking about Joshua ben Nun.

 

[mrasell]

The Exodus command specifies the 7th day of the week to be kept holy, that was the day God sanctified at Creation (Gen. 2:2-3).

Sunday was substituted for the Sabbath by the Catholic Church, this is affirmed in many Cathechisms, by Archbishops and at the Council of Trent.

“Q. Which day is the Sabbath?
“A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
“Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
“A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.”
(Peter Geiermann, The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (Rockford, IL: Tan Books and Publishers, 1977), p. 50)

At the council of Trent Gaspare de Fosso archbishop of Reggio said that the authority of the church was illustrated by the fact that “(for He says He has come to fulfil the law, not to destroy it), but they have been changed by the authority of the church.”
(Gaspare [Ricciulli] de Fosso, Address in the 17th Session of the Council of Trent, Jan, 18, 1562, in Mansi, Sacrorum Conciliorum, vol 33, cols. 529, 530. translated into English)

Protestant do not accept that the Church or Pope can modify God’s law. Some say it has been abolished, others that we should observe the 7th day.

Catholic theologians have long known that there is no Biblical basis for Sunday worship. Eck in debate with Luther said Luther had no Scripture to support Sunday.

Although Acts 20:7 is often quoted, this text is very unsound, as it was a one off meeting that went on all night because Paul was leaving the next day. In any case in Acts 2 it says they broke break daily. In addition to that the Jewish day begins on Saturday night, so the 1st day of the week begins on Saturday evening. Then Paul continued his journey on Sunday morning.

About 1400 AD Petrus de Ancharano asserted that “the pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts in the place of God upon earth, with the fullest power of binding and loosing his sheep”
(Lucius Ferriris, “Papa,” art. 2, Prompta Bibliotheca (Venetiis [Venice]: Caspa Storti, 1772), vol. 6, p. 29, translated into English)

 

[Berachiah]

It is not practical to make a day higher than the rest. I don’t agree with that. I think for that matter the Samoans (see MarysRose post #23) would be very hard done by.

 

[KathleenGee]

The SDA’s do not know the reality of Christ the Savior and Redeemer of the world…and His ongoing mission.

Christ is the Eternal Word, the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

I noticed that they usually quote the Old Testament, but draw little from the New.

 

[mrasell]

The SDA’s do not know the reality of Christ the Savior and Redeemer of the world…and His ongoing mission.

Christ is the Eternal Word, the fulfillment of the Old Testament.

I noticed that they usually quote the Old Testament, but draw little from the New.

The Catholic Church has always taught the need to keep the 10 Commandments, as do most if not all Protestant Churches. I don’t know of any denomination which claims we are free to break the 10 Commandments.

The Apostle John spoke clearly when he said:
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. " 1 John 2:4

We cannot claim to know God and break His commandments.

When it comes to the Sabbath, there are various views:
Catholic: the church changed the Sabbath to Sunday
Presbyterian: Jesus and the Apostles changed the Sabbath to Sunday
Lutheran and others: The Sabbath was abolished at the cross
SDA and others: The Sabbath was not abolished or transferred

Clearly these views are not compatible with each other, if the Sabbath was abolished it cannot also be transferred to another day.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

As a Jew, Richard, I agree with you on the point that Saturday is the eternal Sabbath. However, I certainly wouldn’t condemn any Christian for observing Sunday as the Lord’s Day instead of Saturday, or considering every day to be a Sabbath. I am curious regarding which branch of Protestantism you belong to which observes the Sabbath on Saturday, if not Seventh-Day Adventist.

Mark 2
27And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

If the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath, doesn’t that make the Sabbath the Lord’s day?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

The following article highlights the absurdity of making an issue of sin worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday, as Adventists do…

bbc.co.uk/news/world-13334229

On December 29, Somoa will jump ahead one day and join Austrailia and New Zealand on the East side of the internaional Dateline. For Somoa in 2011, Friday December 30 will simply not exist. Go to bed on Thursday the 29th, wake up on Saturday the 31st.

I wonder what Adventists will do? Get up and go to church since its Saturday? But wait, That would only be the 6th day from Sunday, not the 7th!! Wait seven days and continue their cycle, oh migosh no, that would put them going to church on Sunday with all the apostate Sunday keeping Christians… what to do???

Some adventists are arguing to keep the ‘seventh’ day by the western hemisphere and to go church on Sunday. Some argue this will destroy their identiy and ‘witness’ regarding the Sabbath.

This just highlights the pitfalls of holding one day above another.

And I’ll answer Richards claim that Catholics also follow the dateline regarding Sunday.
Yes we do, but its an entirely different matter. We do not claim a biblical command to observe a particilar day. We follow the direction of our local bishop, as we do with all feasts and observances. The dateline is not an issue, other than as a matter of scheduling.

 

[KathleenGee]

Richard,

I don’t think your religion has really approached Jesus Christ in His fullness…I do not see redemption in your posts…only judgment…and you appear to reflect the spin anti-Catholic tracts churn out.

It has taken me a long time to finally see through your attachments and rejection of our beliefs by twisting them to fit your bias.

Scripture is very clear about the role of Peter. And you are using some dictionary vs what Catholics truly believe…we tell you over and over and you keep coming back with your own definitions.

Not objective.

If you truly believed in Jesus Christ, you would not be hung up on a certain day of the week. We have come to worship Christ on the 8th day…and we hold the Lord’s Day as one of rest and contemplation of the Lord in thanksgiving.

What is bound on earth is now bound in heaven…because of Christ and His words to Peter…

I would back off from a belief system that validates itself by knocking down my faith and its history of believers.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

you do mean Jesus ie, Joshua ben Nun right? You do realize that its not talking about Jesus Christ in this verse? Like in Acts 7.45. Only a KJV-onlyists would insist this verse is talking about Jesus Christ. No modern translation (not even the old YLT) translates Jesus as in Jesus Christ there. Its talking about Joshua ben Nun.

You’re right. This from my commentary

The line of reasoning in chs. 3 and 4, which centers in the word “rest,” is essentially as follows:

1. God originally intended that Moses should lead Israel into the Canaan “rest,” but neither Moses nor the generation that left Egypt entered Canaan.
2. Joshua, however, did lead the next generation into Canaan but because of their unbelief he could not lead them into God’s spiritual “rest.”
3. In the days of David, God renewed the invitation to enter into His spiritual “rest” (see Vol. IV, p. 31). But it was obvious, by NT times, that Israel as a nation had not entered into God’s “rest.”
4. Nevertheless, God’s invitation and promise had not lapsed by default, for when God determines upon a certain objective He will, ultimately, achieve it despite human failures (see on ch. 4:3, 4).
5. Accordingly, since God’s people have not as yet entered into His “rest,” it is certain that “there remaineth … a rest to the people of God” (ch. 4:9).
6. If Christians will “come boldly unto the throne of grace” (ch. 4:16), where Christ ministers as “the Apostle and High Priest of our profession” (ch. 3:1; cf. ch. 4:14, 15), they will find One who can “be touched with the feeling of” their “infirmities” (ch. 4:15), and will “obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need” (v. 16). In so doing they will enter into God’s spiritual “rest,” the “rest” of soul He has provided for repentant sinners. Thus, explains the writer, the experience into which Israel had failed to enter in centuries gone by becomes the privilege of the sincere Christian today (ch. 3:13, 15).
7. “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. … Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief” (ch. 4:1, 11). Faith is the key to entering into God’s “rest” (ch. 4:2; cf. chs. 3:18, 19; 4:6; 11), and we should “take heed” lest there be in us “an evil heart of unbelief” (ch. 3:12).
   Under the Levitical priesthood men were to perform certain “works” designed to help them understand and appreciate the plan of salvation in Christ Jesus. But under the ministration of Christ as high priest men are to go directly to Christ without the mediation of a human priest. They are to find “rest” in Christ, without the “works” required by the ceremonial system, or any other system. In chs. 3 and 4 the writer pleads with his Jewish Christian brethren to cease from these profitless “works” and to enter into the “rest” of simple faith in the atoning merits and ministry of our great High Priest in heaven. Compare Isa. 30:15; Jer. 6:16; Matt. 11:29.

Nichol, Francis D.: The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, Volume 7. Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1978; 2002, S. 414

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Thanks, Publisher…the Catholic Church calls it the Eighth Day…

And in the Lord…every day has its rest in Him…

God only created 7 days Gen 1&2

 

[KathleenGee]

And Christ could have risen on the 7th…to show God’s power over death.

Why didn’t He according to your insistence?

 

[KathleenGee]

You have to look at Christ to understand the fullness of Scriptures.

Instead you are looking at the Old Testament, and not Christ. So your religion is not Christ based.

 

[KathleenGee]

Because your religion is not based on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as Catholicism is, yours is a mixture of restorationist interpretation of the Old Testament, and using your understanding of the Old Testament, not Christ through the Holy Spirit and the traditions the apostles gave us in understanding faith, it can’t be authentically Christian.

Otherwise, part of your construct would not need to be anti other forms of Christianity—after the fact.

Your religion is based on a certain day of the week. Watch out for phariseeism.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

You know Richard, to apply this literally as you have here puts us spending eternity staring at the rotting carcases.

No it doesn’t. Isaiah puts this in to show us the importance of keeping the commandments of God rather than the commandments of men. Also that the Sabbath will be kept in the new heaven and earth.

Obviously, you’ve missed a few things in your interpretation. You are putting one day of the week, Saturday, above all others as the one acceptable day of worship and rest. Saturday is arbitary, the commandment sets forth the principle of resting on the “seventh” day. Thats not a name. Thats an ordinal number. Which day is the seventh depends on how you count them. The idea of going out of ones house to worship on this seventh day… that is not even in the commandment, it says to stay home and REST.

Actually I’m not “putting one day of the week, Saturday, above all others as the one acceptable day of worship and rest.” God is to be worshiped every day, but He set aside one day where we can have a special fellowship with Him. Saturday is not arbitrary. The seventh day is the Sabbath day. Ex.20:10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God. It denotes a specific day that God has designated for His holy day. Not me.

Christians rest in Jesus, not in a day. Sunday isn’t even considered a sabbath, its a feast day to gather and worship and give thanks, celebrating the resurrection of Jesus.

So what day do you consider the Sabbath?

It fulfills the spirit of the commandment, to set aside one day in seven, but it doesn’t replace the old shadow that Christians are not bound to keep, there is no need. Christians can certainly rest and worship on Saturday if they want to, but there is no reason to condemn those who do not.

Marysroses

Above you said that “Sunday isn’t even considered a sabbath”. Now you say “It fulfills the spirit of the commandment”. So do you think that this commandment of man has replaced God’s commandment to keep the seventh day Sabbath or not? There is no shadow in the fourth commandment. It is a memorial of creation. Ex.20:11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. I condemn no one. That’s not my job. James2: 10For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

It is not practical to make a day higher than the rest. I don’t agree with that. I think for that matter the Samoans (see MarysRose post #23) would be very hard done by.

What do you mean by “It is not practical to make a day higher than the rest”

See post #30

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard,

I don’t think your religion has really approached Jesus Christ in His fullness…I do not see redemption in your posts…only judgment…

Jn.14
15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

and you appear to reflect the spin anti-Catholic tracts churn out.

Why, because I disagree with you?

It has taken me a long time to finally see through your attachments and rejection of our beliefs by twisting them to fit your bias.

How so?

Scripture is very clear about the role of Peter. And you are using some dictionary vs what Catholics truly believe…we tell you over and over and you keep coming back with your own definitions.

Not objective.

So your opinion is “objective” but mine isn’t. I don’t think that’s being very objective.

If you truly believed in Jesus Christ, you would not be hung up on a certain day of the week.

It is because I believe in Jesus Christ that I am “hung up on a certain day of the week.”

We have come to worship Christ on the 8th day…

This 8th day business your invention. God only created 7 days Gen 1&2. I think that I already posted this to you.

and we hold the Lord’s Day as one of rest and contemplation of the Lord in thanksgiving.

This is good you should do this, but substituting your eighth day for God’ holy Sabbath is not allowed.

What is bound on earth is now bound in heaven…because of Christ and His words to Peter…

This is a complete misunderstanding of Matt 16 Peter and all the apostle and you and I are given the power to bind or loose souls to the heavenly kingdom by the heys to the kingdom, which are Jesus’ words.

Jn.6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I would back off from a belief system that validates itself by knocking down my faith and its history of believers.

How do you think that I am knocking down your faith by telling you the truth?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

And Christ could have risen on the 7th…to show God’s power over death.

Why didn’t He according to your insistence?

Because He rested in the grave. Even in death Christ kept the commandments.