Removal of "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance

[fpawlak]

As I understand it, the Pledge was written so children could take place in part of the 1893 World Fair and Exposition in Chicago. Katharine Lee Bates visited that Exposition on her way to Colorado to teach summer courses at Colorado College in Colorado Springs. She and some of the other teachers made the trek to the top of Pike’s Peak that summer and Katharine wrote the poem “America, the Beautiful.” The fourth verse of that poem refers to alabaster cities, a reference to the buildings she saw at the Exposition.

Personally, I feel uncomfortable pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth, even a symbol of my country. Let my allegiance be to God’s perfect and holy will, rather than some human construct. Our whole school says the pledge together every morning, and it just makes me really uneasy each time.

Gertie

Then consider a pledge that every GI had to take during the Vietnam War. Having once taken that pledge, the exact words now escape me, but it was to defend this country even at the cost of my life.

Here is another view on the origin of the pledge.

homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfc_pledge.html

 

[bengal_fan]

well, considering it wasn’t added until the eisenhower administration… i would think even strict constructionists would say the founding fathers did not intend for it to be in the pledge.

to an atheist, they do not live in a nation “under God”. it does not represent their pledge because it forces them to adopt a religious idea which is directly against the constitution.

take it out. we as Christians know we are under God (whether we are in america or some where else on earth). we just look silly when we fight over a small phrase instead of fighting for the souls of men, women, and children who are being corrupted by sin and death. we look silly when we fight for a phrase when people go hungry every night. why do we give a rip what the pledge says? we should only be pledging our allegiance to God anyway… not to a flag. what happens if you pledge your allegiance to a flag and then that “flag” leads you in a direction contrary to God (say… like a war that does not fit the just war category according to every major Christian denomination besides the southern baptist convention)? you have now, as a Christian, made two vows. you are going to have to break one. i hope we all choose the right one to break. better to only take one pledge of allegiance.

 

[rlg94086]

well, considering it wasn’t added until the eisenhower administration… i would think even strict constructionists would say the founding fathers did not intend for it to be in the pledge.

Again…since the pledge wasn’t written until the Harrison administration…I would think that any historian would have to say that we don’t know what the founding fathers would have included in the pledge. For all we know, they would have been completely against any sort of pledge.

The only reason the founders were brought into this discussion was because the words of the Declaration, which is the founding document of our country, declare that our rights come from our Creator.

 

[Colmcille]

Okay…but technically, we don’t sing “God Bless America” at our sporting events…we sing the *Star Spangled Banner. *Although, it would be nice if we sung the last verse every once in a while :

EDIT ADD…I just tried singing that verse out loud and my 9th grader joined in. I was shocked that she knew the words , but I guess they sang the whole thing last year in choir. Well, that public school better be shut down! How dare they mention God!

Katherine Lee Bates’ America The Beautiful is my favorite, especially the second verse, and in particular the phrases “…confirm thy soul with self control, thy liberty with law.”
Self control, self restraint seem to be out of fashion nowadays and sometimes just an ancient concept that is downright discouraged. Colmcille (Sometimes I’m the worst offender I know.)

 

[Gertabelle]

Here is an interesting little article on the history of the pledge.

history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

…consider a pledge that every GI had to take during the Vietnam War. Having once taken that pledge, the exact words now escape me, but it was to defend this country even at the cost of my life.

Here is another view on the origin of the pledge.

homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/1st_floor/flag/1bfc_pledge.html

Thank you for the great websites. I read through them, and I stand by my original feelings of discomfort saying it. My allegiance is to God. If HE asks me to lay down my life, so be it. But I don’t lay it down for my country at my own choice, but by God’s choice. The difference may not seem like much, but it is everything for me. So my allegiance is still to God’s Holy Will.

Gertie

 

[fpawlak]

Thank you for the great websites. I read through them, and I stand by my original feelings of discomfort saying it. My allegiance is to God. If HE asks me to lay down my life, so be it. But I don’t lay it down for my country at my own choice, but by God’s choice. The difference may not seem like much, but it is everything for me. So my allegiance is still to God’s Holy Will.

Gertie

In a sense it is always God’s will when we should die. But the question does remain, is it always God’s will or choice that we should lay down our life for our country. Is it always God’s will when someone does something evil to us, such as take our life or possessions? Or in the case of an unjust war where our life is taken from us?

 

[Gertabelle]

In a sense it is always God’s will when we should die. But the question does remain, is it always God’s will or choice that we should lay down our life for our country. Is it always God’s will when someone does something evil to us, such as take our life or possessions? Or in the case of an unjust war where our life is taken from us?

Sounds like a fabulous topic for a new thread!

Gertie

 

[john1863]

This is purely personal opinion, but I suspect that many of the founders would have been horrified by a pledge that is recited by masses everyday to government. They may have seen it as running contrary to the rights of man to individual thought and conscience.

John

 

[fpawlak]

Sounds like a fabulous topic for a new thread!

Gertie

Perhaps it is, but one that must be dealt with, using extreme care. When examining this kind of thing, Theodicy lies just ahead. That is a very sticky area to venture into. I have been there!!

But thanks for the compliment.
Frank

 

[rlg94086]

This is purely personal opinion, but I suspect that many of the founders would have been horrified by a pledge that is recited by masses everyday to government.

Possibly.

john1863:

They may have seen it as running contrary to the rights of man to individual thought and conscience.

John

I’m not sure if that would be the reason though, and it might have depended on the founding father. I would say that it would probably have garnered more support from the Federalist Party (Adams, Hamilton) who favored a strong central government and less from the Democratic-Repulican Party (Jefferson, Madison) who were opposed to the same.

As the historical links show, the pledge came into being partly due to the Civil War…apparently the idea of national cohesiveness sounded better after so many people died.

 

[rlg94086]

Perhaps it is, but one that must be dealt with, using extreme care. When examining this kind of thing, Theodicy lies just ahead. That is a very sticky area to venture into. I have been there!!

But thanks for the compliment.
Frank

Oh…I think I read Theodicy…and The Iliad.

 

[Karmastrike]

More then 85% of Americans BELIEVE in a higher being. It doesn’t say what God in the pledge. To suit the Atheists would be like sending a kid to a Catholic school, and be preached about Islam.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9703/undergod01ox5.jpg

This is a cheap, cheap attempt to make God into a MASCOT! Offensive in the extreme!