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Laura_Ic
Guest
As long as the children are cared for and happy. There are many large families who lived in small homes and shared bedrooms and the children grew up to be successful.
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joandarc2008
Guest
I only have a couple of concerns here:
- Hygiene - enough said
- Are they all sleeping in the same room with the adults - if so this could be extremely inappropriate and have many issues for the children later. However, unless you are a trained Social Worker or Child Psychologist these are not questions you probably want to delve too deeply into.
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leonie
Guest
We try to help when we can. The dad of the family won’t let us see my relative and she’s not allowed to see us, but we are allowed to call and write.
The dad of the family can’t hold a job for very long, and he refuses to watch the kids, so the mother can work. She is very anxious, so I’m not sure she could work anyway. It’s frustrating because when a family member or a friend tries to help them, eventually, the dad sabotages it by lying. He’s not necessarily a bad guy, though. It’s more like he is limited in some life skills, education, and intellect. He’s like a 13 year old who doesn’t “get” how to function in the world. He screws something up and then lies to get out of it. And, just giving them money sometimes just makes the situation worse. Then, he doesn’t work at all–he mostly does odd jobs.
I understand why Jesus says that we will always have the poor among us.
But, I do think the kids are loved and well cared for. They just seem to live very primitively. Lately, they’ve been having problems with a neighbor and I was worried that the neighbor might report them to child protective services…The dad of the family seems to make a lot of enemies because of his bad social skills.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
I think I’d be more worried about the dad than the outhouse & woodstove.
No, seriously, we had a dear friend whose husband was a control freak & kept the family living in primitive conditions & isolated from relatives & friends.He read her mail & refused to allow her to even join a homeschooling group.The children were well fed (when he was working)& well cared for by the mom but the whole situation was pretty sad.
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bethndanny
Guest
All the children are under age six. Many, many, many families co sleep. It is quite common in many cultures in fact. It is also a relatively new invention to have children sleep away from their parents. Not to mention they may not even be in the same bed, just potentially the same room. This in and of itself would not be an issue, and I can’t imagine why it would be “extremely inappropriate”.
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Middleman
Guest
Eating junkfood regularly is also hazardous. Would you suggest removing fat children whose parents feed them improperly from their homes? No you wouldn’t.
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graceandglory
Guest
If you are worried, what are the charges? If they are fine, who made the threat to call CPS?
How do they get clean with no running water?
It should not be illegal to be poor. They have good nutrition, medical care, and no water? Good nutrition, really? but only a one room house?
I don’t think there is enough information here to say either way.
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Shin
Guest
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this situation in and of itself. It’s the way many people have lived, and continue to live.
CPS should not be involved because of this. At all.
It would be a great sin to take away children from their parents by misguided government intervention, if the local CPS has problems. Don’t participate in it. You don’t want that on your conscience.
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purplesunshine
Guest
In light of the information that a) you can’t see the children and b) the neighbor has seen them I’m not inclined to trust you wholly that you do know what’s going on.
Writing and phone calls don’t show you actual living conditions.
You don’t get to see these kids. If you have any indication that they are being neglected or harmed CPS should be called. Removal in most places isn’t emminant, but they try to work with the familes. My brother is a social worker who deals with families with young children. Removal is a last resort and they do everything to try and make the family work…ESPECALLY when they’re young. The cases where children are taken without warning usually involved grave physical abuse or (any type of) sexual abuse.
Writing and phone calls don’t show you actual living conditions.
You don’t get to see these kids. If you have any indication that they are being neglected or harmed CPS should be called. Removal in most places isn’t emminant, but they try to work with the familes. My brother is a social worker who deals with families with young children. Removal is a last resort and they do everything to try and make the family work…ESPECALLY when they’re young. The cases where children are taken without warning usually involved grave physical abuse or (any type of) sexual abuse.
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Shin
Guest
You should not call CPS when there is not reason to do so. CPS is not God, and CPS has in fact at times, intervened when it should not. There are horror stories.
Lack of running water, poverty, are not reasons to call CPS. So there is no reason. So you don’t. It takes a solid reason. No one has said anything about any signs of sexual abuse here at all. Just lack of running water.
Which happens. Plenty. My well froze this winter. I used bottled water in the meantime. I have no children. If I did, it would not be reason to call CPS. Anymore than a small room would be.
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purplesunshine
Guest
All the OP orignally stated is that these children live in a small home, (which is OK) without running water (which is do-able). Neither of thses are cause for concern. Infact there’s a third point the OP made which I found insulting…she acted as if wood stoves were a cause for concern.
What is concerning is that you have a highly irresponsible parent who is isolating his wife (a grown adult) from family and friends. You have a neighbor who “has it out” and wants to call CPS. You have a family member who can only send mail and call the family in question. She cannot see these children. I have no doubt the mom in question loves her children very much. But somehow I believe that a neighbor…anyone…who can actually see and interact with these children have a better vantage point. What the OP knows is that there is a family in trouble.
As I stated before CPS’ intent is not to remove children. It, however, happens. They are an organization made up of humans. Yes there are horror stories. No, its not a crime to be poor. But in this case intervention may be needed…not by what was in the original post but in the information that’s followed. CPS is not the big evil organization its made up to be…and it seems this family is in real need of help. CPS ideally will hook them up with things like parenting classes (good for immature dad) and ensure they have food and health care. As I said above they’re not in the business of yanking children out of their homes and typically don’t unless there is grave iminatant physical danger. No running water is not a danger. Feces on the floor is. But again, we have NO IDEA of weither they live happily like Little House on the Prairie or if they are suffering horribly. And its not for us to decide.
The biggest problem right now is that none of us, not even the OP, know how these children are truly living. And the OP may be better off discussing what she knows with a case worker who can direct her to make a report or not.
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Shin
Guest
Having a wood stove is not reason to call CPS.
If the OP is concerned, let the OP go visit and help out.
CPS is not the solution to every problem, the authority to go to when one has a casual concern to check out a family. You do that yourself. You take responsibility. You help out yourself you don’t foist it off on some strangers who you do not know who have authority to do harm as well as help.
Worried the stove isn’t vented? When you don’t even know if it is or not? Go check it out, and pay for the fix if it isn’t. You help out.
Calling CPS is a serious thing to do, that can cause harm to the family as well as solve problems.
This OP can become permanently estranged from these family members for calling CPS.
Parents rightly feel threatened by this. It’s the threat to take away their children.
So you do not do it unless there is a reason.
So far, there is not one expressed. I am concerned by the view that for the slightest reason, or for wrong reasons, one should simply call them to come by and check on a family. That’s not how it often works. Once you call, the workers may intervene, when no intervention is necessary.
Often an accusation is enough for them to take a child from a home, before even verifying the accusation.
If there’s something wrong with what I’ve said, I’d like to hear it. I think we both have the desire for the best for that family and to take due care.
Here, I Googled, a site of stories about CPS.
If the OP is concerned, let the OP go visit and help out.
CPS is not the solution to every problem, the authority to go to when one has a casual concern to check out a family. You do that yourself. You take responsibility. You help out yourself you don’t foist it off on some strangers who you do not know who have authority to do harm as well as help.
Worried the stove isn’t vented? When you don’t even know if it is or not? Go check it out, and pay for the fix if it isn’t. You help out.
Calling CPS is a serious thing to do, that can cause harm to the family as well as solve problems.
This OP can become permanently estranged from these family members for calling CPS.
Parents rightly feel threatened by this. It’s the threat to take away their children.
So you do not do it unless there is a reason.
So far, there is not one expressed. I am concerned by the view that for the slightest reason, or for wrong reasons, one should simply call them to come by and check on a family. That’s not how it often works. Once you call, the workers may intervene, when no intervention is necessary.
Often an accusation is enough for them to take a child from a home, before even verifying the accusation.
If there’s something wrong with what I’ve said, I’d like to hear it. I think we both have the desire for the best for that family and to take due care.
Here, I Googled, a site of stories about CPS.
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NoxSineStellae
Guest
I think everyone’s in agreement on that.
The OP stated she isn’t allowed to do this. The father of the family forbids his wife to see her relatives.
I agree in general, but in this case, the OP can’t because the father/husband will not allow people to see the family in person, even their relatives who wish to help.
Again, she said she can’t. They’re only allowed to communicate through telephone and letters.
Of course, she could show up at their doorstep and deal with the fallout from the father (and hope he doesn’t take it out on the wife and kids later). That is an option, to show up after being told you’re not allowed, and start fixing things, assessing the children, etc.
I view a husband/father forbidding his wife in person contact with her relatives to be a reason for concern. There is much that does not come through in calls/letters, and calls and letters can be easily monitered. The OP says the husband is a liar who refuses to watch his own children (note I’m not saying anything about his inability to hold a job, that can be beyond his control, and is not a sin/crime).
This does not sound like a family working together, united and happy, that is just having a hard time. If mom is “so anxious she probably can’t work anyway” you can bet the kids are picking up on that too.
I’m not saying CPS should be called, but since the relatives aren’t ALLOWED to help, it sounds like SOMEONE needs to reach out to the wife and put her in touch with resources she can take advantage of for her and her children that she may not be aware of.
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Shin
Guest
I don’t know how I missed that part of the thread about the dad not letting people see the relatives. My apologies.
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iamrefreshed
Guest
That’s very sad that family cannot visit. This is a problem that only the wife can address. I hate the word ‘allowed’ when it comes to actions that a wife would take! No husband has the right to ‘allow’ or not ‘allow’ his wife to visit her family. This is just uncalled for.
Pray for this woman to get the strength to get her marriage to a point of equality.
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puzzleannie
Guest
purple is right, the physical living conditions of the home are not the main issue, the behavior of the husband and father is the issue. If you have reason so suspect real abuse and neglect, and do not report, you are contributing to the situation. If you have no reason to suspect this, not. If a neighbor, teacher or some other concerned adult who is closer to the situation has reason to report they will do so, and there is not much you can do about it.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
Yes, the isolation issues were the part of the post that troubled me, too.
We still know folks who live out in the sticks, burn wood & carry water from the spring in milk jugs. But they don’t have someone telling them who can or can’t visit.That was the creepy part, not the woodstove or the outhouse.
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purplesunshine
Guest
Not to mention that severe adult isolation almost always goes hand in hand with some form of abuse. In fact, I don’t think I’ve seen or read or known about any case where an adult was forcibly isolated that there wasn’t abuse. The whole concept is troubling. In our spiritual life one of the greatest tricks of the devil is to isolate…and in our physical lives forced isolation is a great harm.
Because of the tidbit about isolation I wouldn’t be surprised if the OP comes back and lets us know there is MUCH more going on than just poverty.
Note: this is different than a family who chooses to get away from modern distractions. Because its their choice made together. And often, they still don’t forbid people from coming to see them, nor do they neglect relatives unless they believe them to be undue influence. In the OP’s case it seems as if she’s giving the husband something (money, clothes, food??? I don’t know) so he gives the wife enough permission to accept gifts (for his own benefit) without loosing his total control over her.
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leonie
Guest
I wasn’t planning to call CPS.
It was just preying on my mind.
I was just worried. My relative told me that a neighbor recently make a false report that caused their medicaid to be pulled, so I thought it might be likely that a call to cps might be next.
I’m not sure if I would be allowed or considered to keep the children if they were removed from the home. But, based on the comments here, I don’t think they would be removed.
My relative goes along with everything her husband says. She wouldn’t even let me come and visit her for a day. It’s a 2 hour drive for me. Not that I know where they live. We aren’t given their actual address. We send things to my relative’s father in law’s house. It was just recently that my relative let it slip that their living conditions were so poor…
It was just preying on my mind.
I was just worried. My relative told me that a neighbor recently make a false report that caused their medicaid to be pulled, so I thought it might be likely that a call to cps might be next.
I’m not sure if I would be allowed or considered to keep the children if they were removed from the home. But, based on the comments here, I don’t think they would be removed.
My relative goes along with everything her husband says. She wouldn’t even let me come and visit her for a day. It’s a 2 hour drive for me. Not that I know where they live. We aren’t given their actual address. We send things to my relative’s father in law’s house. It was just recently that my relative let it slip that their living conditions were so poor…
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Shin
Guest
You have my prayers, and more I am sure.
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