Removing Jesus from the Monstrance and passing Him around during Adoration

[Claire_from_DE]

Perhaps this rule then is specific to our parish. Our pastor would have the authority to make that requirement, I presume. I know that each of us who is scheduled has been told that no one is to touch the monstrance. Also, as we end with Benediction, I was under the impression that that was something that could only be done by the priest or deacon.

Only a priest or deacon may give benediction, blessing the people with the Blessed Sacrament in the monstrance, but if there is no deacon or priest a lay person may repose the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle.

 

[FrDavid96]

Parrotgal,

This is an example of something that must be brought to the attention of the local bishop. You may want to consider writing him a brief letter, outlining what you observed. Don’t try to quote liturgical laws, and don’t offer your own opinion on whether it was right or wrong (even though it is wrong, let the bishop come to that conclusion on his own). Simply tell him what you observed, at what parish, and on what date(s). Let him handle it from there, yet this is certainly something that must be brought to his attention.

 

[DJgang]

Oh my gosh…there was absolutely no need to be so defensive. I was trying to calm your nerves a bit and help you feel better. Remember, we are allowed to receive Him in our hand at Mass.

Thats all.

You know what, you do bring up a valid point.

Am I distrubed at what happened with the OP? Yes.

Does it surprise me? No

Because…after all, we are allowed to touch the body of Christ when receiving … maybe this has sent mixed signals to people and they are justifying their own actions based on this…

I say let’s go back to not receiving in the hand and we may see more reverence, thus resulting in less abuses as mentioned in this thread.

Now…I think that is what you might have been trying to say, and I agree.

OP - write your bishop immediately! These teens do not need to be taught that this action is okay…

God bless, Dana

 

[FrDavid96]

You know what, you do bring up a valid point.

Am I distrubed at what happened with the OP? Yes.

Does it surprise me? No

Because…after all, we are allowed to touch the body of Christ when receiving … maybe this has sent mixed signals to people and they are justifying their own actions based on this…

I say let’s go back to not receiving in the hand and we may see more reverence, thus resulting in less abuses as mentioned in this thread.

Now…I think that is what you might have been trying to say, and I agree.

OP - write your bishop immediately! These teens do not need to be taught that this action is okay…

God bless, Dana

Amen to that!!!

 

[agapewolf]

Yes we are. And we are to consume forthwith. However, we are NOT EVER ALLOWED to hold onto Him for a while adore Him personally and then pass Him along down the line, so that everyone else can share in the experience, until He reaches the front again.

But I suppose that since this occurred at a Lifeteen event, and we all know that Lifeteen would never ever ever under any circumstances, sanction these sort of things, that you would try to find some way to how shall we say it, minimize the affront? Minimize the , how would you best term it ,

Outright blatant disrespect and sacrilige? Is that too strong a statement?

I am pleased that you would be disturbed. I really am. Its good to know that Lifeteen hasn’t completely fried and distorted your sense of the sacred nature of the Eucharist.

I am however very concerned though that you tried to find some way, any way, to minimize what happened and in essence find some way to justify it. Comparing this atrocity to the reception of Holy Communion is just plain non sensical and wrong.

I think your deep love for Lifeteen got the best of you on this one. I hope that you can realize that. Some things cannot be justified nor minimized.

Ever, no matter who does them.

There is nothing wrong with righteous anger.

And before you get all testy, I know what this Priest was trying to do. He was trying to get the kids to experience Christ in an up close and personal physical way, just as most Lifeteen events try to do in some way or another. To bring the mystery of faith closer to the kids. To make it more real for them. To get them involved.

I sat through that sort of thing for years because the DRE and RCIA director were big fans of Lifeteen.

The problem though is that by coming up with new and inventive ways to try to accomplish these noble goals, those responsible often cause great damage to the Body of Christ. They may have the best of intentions, but we know what is often said about good intentions.

You seem to be waiting to jump on me for anything…

Let’s see here: You’ve already contradicted yourself: something with good intentions, noble intentions, cannot be outright blatant disrespect

I never ever mentioned anything about Lifeteen, You brought it up. I was not trying to minimize anything, only trying to console someone. And again, Lifeteen would not sanction these things, as I have asked you to call them youself and you refuse. I have not tried to justify anything.

Your statement of Lifeteen frying my brain is not appropriate. Lifeteen has only encouraged and assisted in my reverence and appreciation for the Eucharist, as I have given my witness many times before. You ignoring that and continuing the jabs just makes you look bad.

 

[Methodi]

Our Parish has recently begun Lifeteen and I am a coremember, an “older” coremember. I am also new to the Parish and have been involved in youth ministry in the town where I used to live.

Last night before our Youth night ended we were able to have Exposition and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Our Pastor led the Exposition and while we didn’t have candles lit nor did we sing the Salutaris it was all good. Until…

Everyone was being quiet and respectful when Father went up to the Altar and took Jesus out of the Monstrance, still in the Pyx and told us the now we are able to hold Jesus. He then handed Jesus off and Jesus was passed to everyone in the group.

I am still having heart palpitations as I type this. I have had a sick stomach all day. When my turn came to hold Jesus, all I know I just had a foreboding sense of how that it was all wrong that He should not be passed around like a mere commodity.

When finally this debacle (to me at least, hey maybe I’m wrong?) over, Benediction began. We didn’t sing Tantum Ergo but went into the Divine Praises. By the time we were at “Blessed be his most Sacred Heart” everyone had finally figured out they were to repeat after Father.

Then the singing of Holy God We Praise Thy Name, which if you heard my singing voice would have certainly terrified you! Seeing that the Priest and I were the only ones singing…ack!

I love Adoration. But last night was so painful for me. My heart was breaking into a million pieces. I have searched the forums here to see if anyone else has experienced anything like this before. I have NEVER EVER known a priest to remove Jesus from the Monstrance and let His most Precious Body be passed around in this way.

Thoughts?

And honestly I am NOT making this up!

We hold the Host in our hands, In a way I really dont see anything wrong with what he did, Jesus belongs to us all . I think its Ok That the worshipers who were there got a chance to Hold him, Just my opinion. A lot in the Church is changing U know

 

[DJgang]

Amen to that!!!

Hey, not bad for a brand spanking new convert huh?

Thanks Father, I appreciate your Amen…

 

[rjs1]

Once again we see an example of a lack of AWE before our Almighty God.

Certainly God is love. Certainly we can regard Him as a loving Father and Jesus as our loving Brother.

BUT! None of these truths diminish the fact that God is God. Throughout Scripture we are shown how we must bow down before our God in love and awe.

We have no right whatsoever to break Church rules, centuries of liturgical correctness, in order to get a “warm, fuzzy” feeling by handling the Blessed Sacrament.

What the priest did was wrong and against the Church’s rules. I note also you said there were no candles. Why not??!! What does this priest really believe about the Blessed Sacrament?

How lucky and blessed we are that Jesus gave Himself to us in the Blessed Sacrament. How dare we take advantage if this giving by treating our Lord and our God with anything less than the respect He deserves.

 

[palmas85]

You seem to be waiting to jump on me for anything…

Let’s see here: You’ve already contradicted yourself: something with good intentions, noble intentions, cannot be outright blatant disrespect

I never ever mentioned anything about Lifeteen, You brought it up. I was not trying to minimize anything, only trying to console someone. And again, Lifeteen would not sanction these things, as I have asked you to call them youself and you refuse. I have not tried to justify anything.

Your statement of Lifeteen frying my brain is not appropriate. Lifeteen has only encouraged and assisted in my reverence and appreciation for the Eucharist, as I have given my witness many times before. You ignoring that and continuing the jabs just makes you look bad.

Good intentions can and often do result in disrespect. Gross disrespect. If you cannot see that then you have a serious problem. I’ll give you a very good example from real life.

Several years ago, the Queen of England was visiting Australia. OK so far. She was being introduced to the crowd by the PM of Australia. Great. Then he did something that set England on edge and deeply insulted and actually humiliated the Queen. Know what it was? He touched her on her back with his hand. Thats it. He meant no harm, had good intentions and thought he was just being polite and friendly as we are in the US and presumably Australia. However, this action was deeply insulting to the Queen and the English by and large.

So yes, one can have very good intentions and still cause blatant outright disrespect.

And just how did you think you were consoling the poster? By pointing out that we can receive in the hand? Precious little consolation in that one.

And yes, I know that publicly Lifeteen disavows all of these types of things. I have read their letters and been to their web site. They do condemn them.

Publicly.

Yet, these sort of things continue to go on. In many places. So what is it, those involved at the grassroots level ignore what Lifeteen has directed and blithly do as they wish or does Lifeteen have a public stance and a different private internal stance on things?

It can really only be one or the other.

Oh and it was the poster who said it was Lifeteen event. I never said that you did and I figured you had read the original post and knew that Lifeteen was once again on the cutting edge of whatever it is that they do.

You yourself said that you were disturbed by the event. Why? If it was meaningless and explainable , then why be disturbed?. In fact why not run right over there and participate?

I know you won’t do that because you know it was wrong and they were wrong to do it. You just can’t bring yourself to admit that Lifeteen or some possibly renegade supporters have some serious issues and take some serious liberties with what they do.

And that Agape saddens me, because that makes it look like your loyalty to that group is more important than loyalty to the faith.

 

[Methodi]

Good intentions can and often do result in disrespect. Gross disrespect. If you cannot see that then you have a serious problem. I’ll give you a very good example from real life.

Several years ago, the Queen of England was visiting Australia. OK so far. She was being introduced to the crowd by the PM of Australia. Great. Then he did something that set England on edge and deeply insulted and actually humiliated the Queen. Know what it was? He touched her on her back with his hand. Thats it. He meant no harm, had good intentions and thought he was just being polite and friendly as we are in the US and presumably Australia. However, this action was deeply insulting to the Queen and the English by and large.

So yes, one can have very good intentions and still cause blatant outright disrespect.

And just how did you think you were consoling the poster? By pointing out that we can receive in the hand? Precious little consolation in that one.

And yes, I know that publicly Lifeteen disavows all of these types of things. I have read their letters and been to their web site. They do condemn them.

Publicly.

Yet, these sort of things continue to go on. In many places. So what is it, those involved at the grassroots level ignore what Lifeteen has directed and blithly do as they wish or does Lifeteen have a public stance and a different private internal stance on things?

It can really only be one or the other.

Oh and it was the poster who said it was Lifeteen event. I never said that you did and I figured you had read the original post and knew that Lifeteen was once again on the cutting edge of whatever it is that they do.

You yourself said that you were disturbed by the event. Why? If it was meaningless and explainable , then why be disturbed?. In fact why not run right over there and participate?

I know you won’t do that because you know it was wrong and they were wrong to do it. You just can’t bring yourself to admit that Lifeteen or some possibly renegade supporters have some serious issues and take some serious liberties with what they do.

And that Agape saddens me, because that makes it look like your loyalty to that group is more important than loyalty to the faith.

Yes, its like some catholics wont attend a mass being said by a priest they dont like or a mass exodus from a church when they dont like the new pastor. Do many catholics know what its about, sometimes I wonder

 

[Danny_OC]

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions

Don’t let this slide

 

[agapewolf]

Yet, these sort of things continue to go on. In many places. So what is it, those involved at the grassroots level ignore what Lifeteen has directed and blithly do as they wish or does Lifeteen have a public stance and a different private internal stance on things?

It can really only be one or the other.

You just can’t bring yourself to admit that Lifeteen or some possibly renegade supporters have some serious issues and take some serious liberties with what they do.

And that Agape saddens me, because that makes it look like your loyalty to that group is more important than loyalty to the faith.

oh geez…again they do condemn the actions. internally as well. I have never ever said there aren’t “renegade supporters” there has to be in order for this to go on. Do not ever ever put words in my mouth or twist them again.

My loyalty to the group is NOT ever more important than the loyalty of the faith. Do not ever accuse me of such a thing.

The only way LT can do anything is if they find out its going on. Call them and tell them its going on.

 

[benedictgal]

This is as much as Redemptionis Sacramentum says about Worship of the Eucharist outside of Mass:

137.] Exposition of the Most Holy Eucharist must always be carried out in accordance with the prescriptions of the liturgical books.

Looking at the ritual books, there is nothing, absolutely nothing that allows for the kind of activity that the OP reported to occur during exposition.

This section is taken from a ritual prescribed for use in the Diocese of San Diego:

II. Exposition outside of Mass
After the people have assembled, a song may be sung while the presider comes to the altar. The presider or another ordained minister puts on a humeral veil and brings the Blessed Sacrament from the place of reservation. He may be accompanied by altar servers or the faithful with lighted candles. The ciborium or monstrance is placed on the table of the altar which is covered with a cloth. (When the altar of exposition is also the place of eucharistic reservation, the minister opens the tabernacle and genuflects before removing the Blessed Sacrament.) For exposition in the monstrance, incense is used. For exposition in the ciborium, incense may be used. When incense is used, the censer bearer, holding the incense boat, goes to the presider. The presider puts incense into the censer. Kneeling before the Blessed Sacrament, he takes the censer and incenses the Blessed Sacrament. After a period of silent prayer, he rises, genuflects and departs.

ADORATION
During the exposition there should be prayers, songs and readings to direct the attention of the faithful to the worship of Christ the Lord. To encourage a prayerful spirit, there should be readings from Sacred Scripture with a homily or brief exhortations to develop a better understanding of the eucharistic mystery. It is also desirable for the people to respond to the word of God by singing and to spend some periods of time in sacred silence.

BENEDICTION
Toward the end of the exposition the presider goes to the altar, genuflects and kneels. Then a hymn or other eucharistic song is sung. Meanwhile the presider places incense into the censer and while kneeling, incenses the Blessed Sacrament. Then the presider rises and sings or says one of the required prayers (Cf. attached page). After the prayer the presider puts on the humeral veil, goes to the Blessed Sacrament, genuflects, and takes the monstrance or ciborium with both hands covered by the veil. Facing the people he makes the sign of the cross over them with the monstrance or ciborium, in silence.

REPOSITION (the return of the Blessed Sacrament to the tabernacle)
After the blessing, the presider may replace the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle, genuflect and remove the humeral veil; or he may place the monstrance or ciborium back on the altar, genuflect and remove the humeral veil either to have another minister replace the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle or to pray the Divine Praises (optional) after which the presider himself or another minister replaces the Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle. The people may sing a concluding song as the presider leaves.

This is pretty much standard operating procedure for the Universal Church.

Now, having re-read this thread, I still have grave concerns about what the OP reported, especially since this stems from the context of a LifeTeen event. Unfortunately, in my opinion, while this movement has borne, according to its supporters, some fruit, there are a lot of thorns imbedded within the bushes. What the OP reported is one such case. One can vigorously defend a movement, but, when the movement starts engaging in practices that are contrary to the “prescriptions of the liturgical books” whether these pertain to the Mass or Exposition, then that raises a huge and glaring red flag.

The other huge problem is a serious lack of catechesis. The OP gave us a very good example of this:

Originally Posted by parrotgal
When finally this debacle (to me at least, hey maybe I’m wrong?) over, Benediction began. We didn’t sing Tantum Ergo but went into the Divine Praises. By the time we were at “Blessed be his most Sacred Heart” everyone had finally figured out they were to repeat after Father.

Then the singing of Holy God We Praise Thy Name, which if you heard my singing voice would have certainly terrified you! Seeing that the Priest and I were the only ones singing…ack!

I love Adoration. But last night was so painful for me. My heart was breaking into a million pieces. I have searched the forums here to see if anyone else has experienced anything like this before. I have NEVER EVER known a priest to remove Jesus from the Monstrance and let His most Precious Body be passed around in this way.

Thoughts?

And honestly I am NOT making this up!

Pastorally, the priest should have prepared the participants for the Benediction and reviewed the prayers, maybe even go over the songs. The leaders should have explained to the teens that this is a different form of liturgy, worship of the Blessed Sacrament outside of Mass. From reading the OP, I gather that this probably didn’t happen. I understand that LifeTeen has its particular agenda for these Youth Nights, but, surely, you can deviate from the program to go over catechesis and instruct the kids (who are supposed to be the future of the Church) what Benediction and Adoration really mean.

 

[benedictgal]

I conducted some further research and found this from the website of the Diocese of Pittsburgh:

II-Adoration of the Most Blessed Sacrament
II.A. Adoration of the Most Holy Eucharist in the tabernacle is strongly encouraged in all places where the Blessed Sacrament is legitimately reserved.

II.B. This adoration may be perpetual, with due regard for security and for the normal liturgical and pastoral life of the community.

II.C. Adoration of the Most Holy Eucharist outside the tabernacle (i.e., Eucharistic exposition) must follow the norms set forth in the policies that follow (III, IV, and V).

III- Exposition of the Most Blessed Sacrament for Brief Periods
III.A. In all churches and oratories where the Most Holy Eucharist is legitimately reserved, exposition of the Most Holy Eucharist in the pyx, ciborium, or monstrance for a brief period of time (that is, for less than a day) is encouraged if suitable numbers of the faithful can be present.

III.B. Opportunities for such exposition should be planned throughout the year, especially in relation to special feasts and seasons of the liturgical calendar, and may occur monthly or even weekly.

Exposition for several hours (but not more than a day) may occur monthly or even as often as once a week.
Exposition for a holy hour may occur more frequently.
Exposition for longer periods must observe Policy IV, below.
III.C. During the exposition, the norms of the Roman Ritual, Holy Communion and Worship of the Eucharist Outside Mass, Chapter III, must be observed regarding the object and content of public prayer. The period should include sufficient time for silent reflection, as well as for prayers, songs, and readings, including a homily or brief exhortation to lead the faithful to the worship of Christ the Lord.

III.D. Exposition may not take place during the celebration of Mass in the same church (unless in a separate chapel).

III.D.1. If the period of exposition both precedes and follows the Mass, a simple reposition of the Most Blessed Sacrament in the tabernacle takes place before the Mass begins. This is permitted up to twice in the same day.

III.E. No exposition of the Most Holy Eucharist is permitted during the Easter Triduum, that is, from immediately before the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper on Holy Thursday until after the Mass of the Easter Vigil on Holy Saturday. This includes the period of adoration immediately following the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper. This norm applies even in those communities authorized to observe perpetual exposition of most Holy Eucharist.

III.F. Exposition held simply for the giving of benediction is prohibited.

IV-Exposition of the Most Blessed Sacrament for Longer Periods
IV.A. In each parish and religious house, it is recommended that there be an annual solemn exposition of the Most Blessed Sacrament for a more extended period of time (from one to three days), but only if a suitable gathering of the faithful is foreseen.

IV.A.1 If uninterrupted exposition is not possible because of too few worshippers, the Blessed Sacrament may be replaced in the tabernacle during periods that have been scheduled and announced beforehand—but not more than twice a day.

IV.B. Any public prayer during the period of exposition must observe the directives found in Policy III.C., above.

IV.C. When Mass is to be celebrated in the same church, the exposition must be interrupted as indicated in Policy III. D., above.

IV.D. Where pastoral circumstances recommend it, such an extended period of exposition may be scheduled up to four times during the year.

In this directive, the Ordinary does not indicate that anything remotely similar to what the OP reported is to be done. In fact, the ritual is very structured and detailed.

I realize that I probably sounded somewhat harsh in my previous post, however, the Blessed Sacrament is the Church’s greatest and most Sacred Treasure and Our Lord is not some object to be treated as we please. We already have close and intimate contact with Our Lord when we eat His Body and drink His Blood in Holy Communion. He unites Himself to us and becomes a part of us. As Pope Benedict shockingly told the WYD faithful in Cologne, he wants to “kiss us”. That is intimate contact enough. We should not and must not pass Him around during Benediction or any time, for that matter.

 

[benedictgal]

I tried to edit my post, but, my time expired. The reason why I quoted the section was to give the OP additional resources should she decide to write to the bishop. The following comes from the guidelines issued by the USCCB in 1992-these are excerpts:

During the exposition there should be prayers, songs, and readings to direct the attention of the faithful to the worship of Christ the Lord. To encourage a prayerful spirit, there
should be readings from Scripture . . . #15, OSEHE

The ordinary minister for exposition of the Eucharist is a priest or deacon. At the end of the period of adoration, before reposition, he blesses the people with the sacrament.

Now, I have seen in some of the posts in this thread where some will make the argument that we are allowed to receive Holy Communion in the hand. However, this differs sharply from what the OP related. When a communicant receives Holy Communion in the hand, the communicant must immediately consume the Sacred Host. Communicants do not hold the Body of Christ in their hands and then pass Our Lord around in a manner similar to what the OP described. Receiving Holy Communion in the hand is 180-degrees different from what the OP described.

I understand that one of the posters made that distinction, but, for clarification’s sake, I wanted to make that clear. The two are not the same, not by a long-shot and to even make that comparison doesn’t make sense.

 

[palmas85]

oh geez…again they do condemn the actions. internally as well. I have never ever said there aren’t “renegade supporters” there has to be in order for this to go on. Do not ever ever put words in my mouth or twist them again.

My loyalty to the group is NOT ever more important than the loyalty of the faith. Do not ever accuse me of such a thing.

The only way LT can do anything is if they find out its going on. Call them and tell them its going on.

What words did I put in your mouth? Point them out, please. I made a statement and I stand by it. Either Lifeteen gives tacit internal approval for these abuses to go on or a good percentage of the rank and file don’t pay any attention to what the leadership says. Pure and simple. And to be blunt, I really don’t think the leadership of Lifeteen is so blind that they don’t know whats going on.

I didn’t accuse you anything. I just said your continued unwavering support, seemingly for whatever this group does is disturbing considering some of the things that have transpired. Thats all. It makes it look as if what is really important to you is the group.

As far as me notifying them of these things, why don’t you? After all, you are a supporter and I would imagine that you want these kind of things to stop.

Don’t you?

 

[parrotgal]

Hello Everyone
I appreciate everyone’s comments and especially yours benedictgal and while I haven’t read all of the quoted texts (you can be sure I will), I want to make my own comments while they are fresh on my mind.
First of all I want to clear up all of the going back and forth between some of the forum members on the discussion of the fact it was “Lifeteen”. Yes, our program is called “Lifeteen”, and we are using it as our model to get our youth program going, but as I stated, the program is new. What I didn’t say was how new. We have only been meeting for 8 weeks, with one week being a social ice breaker and another going to a concert. I don’t believe “Lifeteen the program” is the factor in being the big driving force as to what happened as much as Lifeteen the concept.
To sum up my feelings which many of you put so eloquently, Fr was trying to connect with the youth in an up close personal manner. What he did was blatantly wrong. Period. End of story. There is no a gray area. And the reading I have done (and thank you again benedictgal:thumbsup: )so far backs up what my heart already felt.
Secondly please keep me in your prayers as I am still discerning what steps to take if any in this matter. I am having a very difficult time on many levels with this, one being the mere fact I brought this to a public forum.
God Bless
Peace

 

[Alethiaphile]

That is one of the most theologically perverse things I have ever heard of. Having said that, I think it is a foreseeable consequence on the (in my opinion) overemphasis in the contemproary western church of extraliturgical “Eucharistic Adoration”. In my opinion, the Catholic Church would be well-served to go back to "“Take, eat… Take, drink”

 

[GailMac]

Dear OP - Do not go there again and participate in his private ritual.

Peace,

Gail

 

[agapewolf]

What words did I put in your mouth? Point them out, please. I made a statement and I stand by it. Either Lifeteen gives tacit internal approval for these abuses to go on or a good percentage of the rank and file don’t pay any attention to what the leadership says. Pure and simple. And to be blunt, I really don’t think the leadership of Lifeteen is so blind that they don’t know whats going on.

I didn’t accuse you anything. I just said your continued unwavering support, seemingly for whatever this group does is disturbing considering some of the things that have transpired. Thats all. It makes it look as if what is really important to you is the group.

By this logic then, I guess the Catholic church gives tacit internal approval for all the abuses that keep happening.

By this logic, then the whole Catholic church gives tacit internal approval of pedophiles.

Come now, you know this isn’t true. Your angst against the program is what is coloring your logic.

You did accuse me of not seeing “renegade supporters” when I never ever ever said that. You twisted my words when saying that I was minimizing what happened. I WAS NOT. So stop it.

B-gal, I never ever equated the reception of receiving in the hand with what happened at this event. Never. Again, for the umpteenth time, I was trying to help the OP feel better.