Removing Jesus from the Monstrance and passing Him around during Adoration

[BayernAnhaenger]

Our Parish has recently begun Lifeteen and I am a coremember, an “older” coremember. I am also new to the Parish and have been involved in youth ministry in the town where I used to live.

Last night before our Youth night ended we were able to have Exposition and Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. Our Pastor led the Exposition and while we didn’t have candles lit nor did we sing the Salutaris it was all good. Until…

Everyone was being quiet and respectful when Father went up to the Altar and took Jesus out of the Monstrance, still in the Pyx and told us the now we are able to hold Jesus. He then handed Jesus off and Jesus was passed to everyone in the group.

I am still having heart palpitations as I type this. I have had a sick stomach all day. When my turn came to hold Jesus, all I know I just had a foreboding sense of how that it was all wrong that He should not be passed around like a mere commodity.

When finally this debacle (to me at least, hey maybe I’m wrong?) over, Benediction began. We didn’t sing Tantum Ergo but went into the Divine Praises. By the time we were at “Blessed be his most Sacred Heart” everyone had finally figured out they were to repeat after Father.

Then the singing of Holy God We Praise Thy Name, which if you heard my singing voice would have certainly terrified you! Seeing that the Priest and I were the only ones singing…ack!

I love Adoration. But last night was so painful for me. My heart was breaking into a million pieces. I have searched the forums here to see if anyone else has experienced anything like this before. I have NEVER EVER known a priest to remove Jesus from the Monstrance and let His most Precious Body be passed around in this way.

Thoughts?

And honestly I am NOT making this up!

As a lot of posters have said, ask the priest about it, and then write the bishop. This is an abuse that is horrendous.

 

[edward_george]

Jst so no one misunderstands. A Lay person can begin and end Adoration, therefore handle the Monstrance and Lunette.

A layman may repose the Blessed Sacrament, but one must be a priest, deacon, or instituted acolyte in order to expose.

-ACEGC

 

[japhy]

A layman may repose the Blessed Sacrament, but one must be a priest, deacon, or instituted acolyte in order to expose.

Eucharistiae Sacramentum (1973) n. 91 says that even an EMHC may expose and repose the Blessed Sacrament; but the non-ordained can only do so if an ordinary minister is not available.

 

[palmas85]

By this logic then, I guess the Catholic church gives tacit internal approval for all the abuses that keep happening.

By this logic, then the whole Catholic church gives tacit internal approval of pedophiles.

Come now, you know this isn’t true. Your angst against the program is what is coloring your logic.

You did accuse me of not seeing “renegade supporters” when I never ever ever said that. You twisted my words when saying that I was minimizing what happened. I WAS NOT. So stop it.

B-gal, I never ever equated the reception of receiving in the hand with what happened at this event. Never. Again, for the umpteenth time**, I was trying to help the OP feel better**.

On the contrary Agape, I know it must be true. Lets not forget that more than a few Bishops worldwide do sanction abuses or at a bare minimum turn a blind eye to them and thus knowledge of them seldom gets any higher than the Diocese. When Rome finds out they do act quickly, As a matter of fact, if I’m not mistaken it was Rome that cracked the whip on Lifeteen wasn’t it?

Then there is the matter of size, over one billion as compared to what, a couple of hundred thousand. maybe? Easy for things to get lost in over a billion, not so easy in a relatively small organization like Lifeteen. So it is pretty much inconcievable to me that the head people over there at Lifeteen don’t know whats going on, unless they plain don’t want to.

Bringing up the whole pedophilia thing is a red herring and you know that and you should be ashamed for even bringing it up and trying to use it as a comparison.

Angst::ehh: by definition a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity

Not quite Agape. While I don’t see the value of the organization in most instances and feel that it does all to often lead to abuses in their never ending quest to reach to the youth in new and improved ways, I’m not really anxious about them, have no need to feel apprehensive and can’t think of a reason to be insecure.

They are really not that important in the scheme of things. I just hate to see a group that has historically flaunted the rules and committed grave acts of sacrilige against the Church be allowed as much leeway as they have. I also hate to see good people such as yourself blinded by the almost cult like devotion that they have for it. Most kids I know that have gone through it, many because that was the only way to get through CCD:thumbsup: , have pretty much gotten over it and moved on. But a few, well, lets just leave it at that.

And I’ll ask again, how were you trying to make the poster feel better with your analogy? It didn’t even make sense, let alone come across as comforting.

 

[agapewolf]

How dare you say that I have a cult like devotion. This is not true. All I do is defend against the absolutely ridiculous claims that people such as yourself put forth. Making corrections against falsehoods is not a “cult like devotion”. Again, stop it. stop it stop it.

You say its not that big of a deal in the scheme of things, but you enjoy so much in antagonizing me with such rude comments like that.

I am not ashamed of myself for bringing up the pedophile priests…I said it myself, IT WASN’T TRUE that the church supported such a thing, and it IS the same comparison to a world wide organization such as Lifeteen. In fact, even more so since Lifeteen doesn’t have quite the network that the church does.

Again, you state a falsehood that most that have gone through it have “gotten over it”. As I have stated repeatedly to you before, yet you refuse to believe, we’ve got thousands in just my area alone positively affected by it. Our seminary is packed, many of the seminarians from the program…orthodox at that.

You have no facts here, just slams. Stop it.

 

[palmas85]

How dare you say that I have a cult like devotion. This is not true. All I do is defend against the absolutely ridiculous claims that people such as yourself put forth. Making corrections against falsehoods is not a “cult like devotion”. Again, stop it. stop it stop it.

You say its not that big of a deal in the scheme of things, but you enjoy so much in antagonizing me with such rude comments like that.

I am not ashamed of myself for bringing up the pedophile priests…I said it myself, IT WASN’T TRUE that the church supported such a thing, and it IS the same comparison to a world wide organization such as Lifeteen. In fact, even more so since Lifeteen doesn’t have quite the network that the church does.

Again, you state a falsehood that most that have gone through it have “gotten over it”. As I have stated repeatedly to you before, yet you refuse to believe, we’ve got thousands in just my area alone positively affected by it. Our seminary is packed, many of the seminarians from the program…orthodox at that.

You have no facts here, just slams. Stop it.

You know Agape, misquoting what I say, really makes you look bad and everyone can see it. I didn’t say most of the kids got over it, I said most of the ones I KNEW got over it

Big difference.

You know what Agape, you whine a lot. You have no defense for the things I say so all you do is mis-quote me, scream at me and cry for me to stop it.

I think you need to grow up just a little bit.

And since you refused to answer again, just how were you trying to make the poster feel better by saying what you did?

I notice that you ignored that one in your assault in me…

 

[agapewolf]

You know Agape, misquoting what I say, really makes you look bad and everyone can see it. I didn’t say most of the kids got over it, I said most of the ones I KNEW got over it

Big difference.

You know what Agape, you whine a lot. You have no defense for the things I say so all you do is mis-quote me, scream at me and cry for me to stop it.

I think you need to grow up just a little bit.

And since you refused to answer again, just how were you trying to make the poster feel better by saying what you did?

I notice that you ignored that one in your assault in me…

This is so tiresome.

I didn’t see the “I know”. I’m sorry for that one. It was unintentional.

But your continuous hashing insults and derogatory comments do nothing but make you look bad. Simply responding to your quite lovely “comments” to my behavior in defense of myself is not whining.

I haven’t assaulted you, I HAVE defended quite well, I haven’t “screamed” at you. Your continuous atrocious accusations are not welcome. Again, stop it.

It is quite obvious what I was trying to help with the OP, as I have already repeatedly explained before. Scroll up.

 

[palmas85]

This is so tiresome.

I didn’t see the “I know”. I’m sorry for that one. It was unintentional.

But your continuous hashing insults and derogatory comments do nothing but make you look bad. Simply responding to your quite lovely “comments” to my behavior in defense of myself is not whining.

I haven’t assaulted you, I HAVE defended quite well, I haven’t “screamed” at you. Your continuous atrocious accusations are not welcome. Again, stop it.

It is quite obvious what I was trying to help with the OP, as I have already repeatedly explained before. Scroll up.

Yes it is tiresome. Your defense of something quite undefensible is tiresome.

It seems that in your personal attacks on me you often misread or skim over vital parts of the posts. This one wasn’t the first I assure you.

But in your zeal to rise and defend this group at every turn you pretty much seem to see only what you want to anyway.

 

[ethelzguy]

Thank you for your responses. I agree, with the posts that it may have been good intention gone bad.

Nonetheless I am very disturbed by this event. I feel that somehow Jesus was desecrated although that may be to strong of a word, but another word doesn’t come to mind to me right now.

God Bless
Peace

While it may have been quite disturbing, I think “desecration” is a bit strong of a description.

Do you know for a fact that it was a consecrated host? I can clearly see the awe that the priest may have been intending to inspire. But there may also be facts we don’t know.

 

[ethelzguy]

Yes, but, what the OP witnessed is something that is not supposed to happen. Benediction has its own set of rituals and what occurred that night was a serious abuse.

Did the event occur within the ritual of Benediction? If not, what other rules may or may not apply?

If an actual Benediction/Exposition was interrupted, that is one thing, but if it was outside of that event, what ARE the rules?

 

[ethelzguy]

That is correct. Your pastor is responsible for the Blessed Sacrament in his parish. If he feels no one but him or the deacon should handle the Blessed Sacrament in his parish, that is his decision to make. I assume that he does not use EMHC’s either? Benediction is reserved only to the priest, I believe.

I have seen Deacons do this.

 

[ethelzguy]

However, we are NOT EVER ALLOWED to hold onto Him for a while adore Him personally and then pass Him along down the line, so that everyone else can share in the experience, until He reaches the front again.

Is this something that you can unequivocally document? It would certainly help clear things up.

 

[FrDavid96]

I have seen Deacons do this.

See canon 943.

The minister of Exposition & Benediction is a priest or deacon only. A layperson may expose & repose the Blessed Sacrament, but is specifically forbidden to act as the minister of Benediction.

It’s also within the competence of the local bishop to provide norms for Exposition/Benediction within the canon and liturgical laws.

In addition (not specifically in canon 943 but certainly elsewhere)
An extraordinary minister (acolyte or properly deputed layperson) may function ONLY in cases of true necessity, and when a proper minister of Communion (priest or deacon) is not available.

 

[agapewolf]

Yes it is tiresome. Your defense of something quite undefensible is tiresome.

It seems that in your personal attacks on me you often misread or skim over vital parts of the posts. This one wasn’t the first I assure you.

But in your zeal to rise and defend this group at every turn you pretty much seem to see only what you want to anyway.

There were absolutely NO personal attacks on you. You have got to be kidding me. Time for you to “point them out”. But if you read your past posts to me, they are all over the place I simply have defended myself against them.

I haven’t defended the action either.

 

[Mortal_Man]

Originally Posted by Br. Rich SFO
That is correct. Your pastor is responsible for the Blessed Sacrament in his parish. If he feels no one but him or the deacon should handle the Blessed Sacrament in his parish, that is his decision to make. I assume that he does not use EMHC’s either? Benediction is reserved only to the priest, I believe.

Benediction itself is reserved to those in major orders: Deacons, Priests, Bishops. However, lay men that a bishop has installed into the ministry of Acolyte (the old “minor order” of sub-deacon) can expose and repose the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[parrotgal]

While it may have been quite disturbing, I think “desecration” is a bit strong of a description.

Do you know for a fact that it was a consecrated host? I can clearly see the awe that the priest may have been intending to inspire. But there may also be facts we don’t know.

Well Ethelzguy since we donot worship or adore pieces of bread in the monstrance of course what kind of question is this? What other facts do you need to know? I was there. Ask away. What facts do you want? So you don’t like the word desecration? Give me another word then. I had asked another poster for another word earlier in the these posts, or did you miss that?

Do I sound angry. Well I am. After reading all these posts and the turn some of them have taken. Attacking Lifteteen as the problem that this Priest has in what he did, when our program is so new, I can’t see how the “whole of Lifeteen” could be responsible for what happened. Now the goings back and forth between Agape and Palmas and now somehow pedophilia in the Catholic Church is brought into the fold. I am just sick. I am dismayed to say at the very least that the “good intentions” have brought me to feel this way.

I apologize to the whole of everyone here. Nothing can change what happened on that Sunday night. Thankyou to those of you who took the time to look up and post the different rules and liturgical rites for adoration. That was most helpful, and confirmed most of which I already knew. And all the other kind words of encouragement and understanding. I pray no one will ever endure this in Adoration as it was devastating on so many levels.

God Bless
Peace

 

[benedictgal]

Parrotgal:

I apologize for the turn this thread has taken. You’ve been through enough as it is.

The reason why the issue of LifeTeen came up is because there are problems with the movement, some of which has been addressed by Rome. Even though, if I read you correctly, you are using LifeTeen as a model, there are a whole lot of weeds that have infested whatever wheat there is. Liturgical abuses within the Mass have popped up and have been discussed in these threads.

What you described was the first instance that I had heard of something like this happpening within the context of Eucharistic Adoration. What you described was serious and warrants action from the bishop.

Adoration, Exposition and Benediction are important means of worshipping our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. However, we need to stay within the confines and guidelines provided by the Church. The Blessed Sacrament is the greatest Treasure the Church possesses because He is Her Bridegroom and she takes great pains to ensure His safety, protection, respect and honor. That is why sections in Canon Law are devoted to the proper handling of the Blessed Sacrament. That is why the Church is very strict in her liturgical norms and rubrics as to what can and cannot be done.

Just because the group worshipping and in adoration happens to be composed of teenagers, that does not give the priest the right to amend the ritual and do with as he pleases, simply to create a more intimate contact between the kids and Jesus. That has already happened at Mass, assuming, of course, that the teens were properly disposed and received Holy Communion.

Now regarding passionate defense of movements, I have seen this not only in these threads, but even in face-to-face contact with folks who belong to the Neocatechumenal Way, the Cursillo Movement (of which I am a member) and the Charismatic Movement. Some have gone to the point that they have made the movement more important than the Universal Church. These movements are supposed to help the faithful deepen their relationship with Christ and His Church, not start up their own rituals, setting themselves apart from everyone else (as has been the case with the Neocatechumenal Way and LifeTeen, to some extent). Sadly, there are those who will defend whatever practices these movements employ because of their devotion to the group, even though such actions are contrary to the liturgical norms prescribed by the Church. Some times, it is best to take a step back and objectively look at the picture. I have had to do this with the Cursillo Movement to the point that I have had to appeal to the Spiritual Director that the liturgical practices employed by the movement at the local level are not appropriate. And, I belong to this movement, mind you.

Pope Benedict had to take direct measures with the Neocatechumenal Way and restrict them in their quasi-liturgical practices. Such a purging needed to occur before the Holy See gave the movement final approval. Rome also intervened and instructed LifeTeen that its members are to no longer assemble in front of the altar nor are they supposed to have a rock party atmosphere before Mass begins. Whether or not this has been fixed is unknown, as these threads are full of reports that the practices are still ongoing.

What I have noted is something that we have to be very careful in approaching both the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Worship of the Holy Eucharist outside of Mass. St. Paul tells us to test all things. In the case of what you experienced, the situation failed the exam miserably and has probably done more harm than good.

Pax Vobiscum.

 

[parrotgal]

Just because the group worshipping and in adoration happens to be composed of teenagers, that does not give the priest the right to amend the ritual and do with as he pleases, simply to create a more intimate contact between the kids and Jesus. That has already happened at Mass, assuming, of course, that the teens were properly disposed and received Holy Communion.

Pax Vobiscum.

Thank you
God Bless
Peace

 

[ethelzguy]

Well Ethelzguy since we donot worship or adore pieces of bread in the monstrance of course what kind of question is this? What other facts do you need to know? I was there. Ask away. What facts do you want?

I am asking if this occured DURING Benediction/Exposition/Adoration? I have read the OP and can’t quite be sure of your timeline of events.

Or, did it occur as a seperate instance, OUTSIDE of the usual Benediction/Exposition/Adoration ritual.

If it was OUTSIDE of those actual events, I would be interested to see specific Church documentation that states that the Blessed Sacrement is not to be otherwise handled in such a way.

I agree, that if it was “passed around” DURING B/E/A, that would be a major problem, but if it wasn’t, then we may have a horse of a different color.

 

[japhy]

If it was OUTSIDE of those actual events, I would be interested to see specific Church documentation that states that the Blessed Sacrement is not to be otherwise handled in such a way.

I am willing to bet that there is nothing written from the Church which says that outside of Adoration, it is not permitted to take the luna with the Blessed Sacrament in it out of the monstrance and pass it around from person to person.

I would also be willing to bet that formation as to why that is not permitted anyway should be given to seminarians.

I would also be willing to bet that (at least in recent years) most of them received no such formation.