Renaming Ascension Sunday

[japhy]

There is only one thing that I am trying to “invent” and that is a new name to replace the label “acension”. I do not believe that a name/label developed from a third century world view and cosmology helps lead people into the “Salvific Mysteries” that I do celebrate and treasure.

What on earth do you mean? Are you saying the early Church called it the “ascension” because they mistakenly believed Jesus actually rose up from the very earth and disappeared from their sight in a cloud as he ascended to heaven? This doesn’t mean they believe heaven to be just on the other side of the clouds; that’s certainly not what the Church believes. But the Church does believe Jesus ascended from the earth and was taken from sight. Heaven is “up”.

If a litergy is not about people’s needs what is it about? If the language used does not lead people into the meaning of the litergy whose needs are being met?

Ah, here’s the problem. The liturgy is not about “people’s needs”. It’s about the public worship of God by the Church. The Eastern Church doesn’t use the term “Mass”, they call their worship the “Divine Liturgy”, literally “the work of God”. It’s not about us, it’s about God. God’s “needs” are being met: we are rendering Him the worship He is due!

The “Ascension” clearly states what Jesus did on the 40th day after his Resurrection. You do believe Jesus actually was raised from the dead in a flesh and blood (albeit glorified) body, don’t you?!

Oh well, I think change will happen since we are members of a living church (Thursday to Sunday change) but I morn for those who will miss the true meaning of Christ in the world and our role in his continued mission because of language and labels that fail to communicate.

Ah, the “Thursday to Sunday” change. So much for 40 days from Easter to Ascension and 10 days from Ascension to Pentecost (the birth of the novena). It’s not a universal change. My diocese celebrates the Ascension on its proper day, Thursday.

 

[Catholic90]

benedictgal;3695762:

There is only one thing that I am trying to “invent” and that is a new name to replace the label “acension”. I do not believe that a name/label developed from a third century world view and cosmology helps lead people into the “Salvific Mysteries” that I do celebrate and treasure. If a litergy is not about people’s needs what is it about? **It is about GOD. **

If the language used does not lead people into the meaning of the litergy whose needs are being met? Ascension - Jesus ascended to heaven. What is difficult about this? Oh well, I think change will happen since we are members of a living church (Thursday to Sunday change) but I morn for those who will miss the true meaning of Christ in the world and our role in his continued mission because of language and labels that fail to communicate. The “true meaning”…Jesus rose and ascended to heaven, to a real place. I don’t get what you don’t get…? Do you not believe Jesus actually ascended? The label “Ascension” is very clear. Ascension Sunday celebrates when Jesus really ascended to heaven. What is not to get?

 

[benedictgal]

Catholic 90, I think that there is a problem with the quote button, because I didn’t write what you quoted. You are quoting what the OP said.

The big problem in all of this is that there is a misguided effort to rename, rebrand something that the Church has believed in since the time of the Apostles. The Gospels use the term “ascended.” In fact, on Easter Sunday, Jesus tells Mary Magdalene not to touch him as he has not yet ascended to His God and her God (as St. John records in his Gospel).

Unfortunately, we live in a time where we think that we can market or brand something better to make things “more attractive”. This is the wrong approach when it comes to the Faith. Jesus’ ascension is part of the Creed. What is so hard to understand? Whether the OP wants to admit this or not, I suspect that there is some serious misunderstanding when it comes to this tenent of the Faith. We have no authority to change what the Church has believed in for nearly 2,000 years.

 

[Catholic90]

Catholic 90, I think that there is a problem with the quote button, because I didn’t write what you quoted. You are quoting what the OP said.

You are right…how strange… …not sure what happened…

The above quote is from JNewfield.

 

[JNewfield]

Heaven is a place. So is hell. The great thing about Catholicism is that what was true in the 3rd Century is still true now.

Aside from you, I have never met anyone who could not understand the concept of the ascension. Christ rose to heaven, body and soul, in a visible and physical manner before a crowd of five hundred people. Did they simply invent the story, or perhaps suffer a mass hallucination from some bad falafel?

I am not interested in a “is”-“is not” argument but if you are intereseted in where I am coming from you consider that “Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist.” (see http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM.

I believe something wonderful and important happened on Ascension day and that people of that time described it in terms that meant something to them but that today lose their impact by directing people away from Christ presence in the world and our role in the continuation of His mission. Remember, the only thing I am suggesting is a “name change” from “Ascension Sunday” to ???.

 

[benedictgal]

I am not interested in a “is”-“is not” argument but if you are intereseted in where I am coming from you consider that “Pope John Paul II pointed out that the essential characteristic of heaven, hell or purgatory is that they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places, as commonly perceived and represented in human language. This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist.” (see http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM.

I believe something wonderful and important happened on Ascension day and that people of that time described it in terms that meant something to them but that today lose their impact by directing people away from Christ presence in the world and our role in the continuation of His mission. Remember, the only thing I am suggesting is a “name change” from “Ascension Sunday” to ???.

However, in this case, Ascension is the language of the Church. She has used this term from the very beginning. Again, I believe that you have a serious misunderstanding of something that has been ingrained in the Church for two millenia. The Church cannot change something just because you feel that it needs to be branded or marketed better. This is a serious problem. Far from directing people away from Christ’s presence in the world, the Ascension reminds us that Christ has gone to prepare a place for us so that where He is, we may be.

 

[Diaconia]

The text handed down by the sacred authors (in this case Luke) should not be “improved upon” with other language or terms.

Our Holy Father John Paul II would be the LAST person in heaven to support re-naming the scriptural testimony of the apostles. (Benedict XVI would be the last person on earth, by the way.)

Our Lord ascended to heaven of his own free will and with his own power. He didn’t shape-shift, “beam-himself-up” or anything of the sort.

He purposefully ascended forty days after Easter Sunday. I thank God I serve in an archdiocese where we maintain the correct, scriptural feast of our Lord’s ascension.

God bless,

PS: Perhaps we could pray that the minds of other bishops would be shape-shifted into restoring the observance of Ascension Thursday to it’s proper day – but that’s a discussion for another day!

 

[PacoG]

I believe something wonderful and important happened on Ascension day and that people of that time described it in terms that meant something to them but that today lose their impact by directing people away from Christ presence in the world and our role in the continuation of His mission. Remember, the only thing I am suggesting is a “name change” from “Ascension Sunday” to ???.

First, the purpose of the liturgy is not our needs. This is not about us. It’s about God.

Second, the purpose of the entire Palm Sunday to Pentecost story arch (to borrow a phrase from television) is to bring our attention to what Christ did for us: His passion and death (Palm Sunday, Holy Thursday and Good Friday), His glorious resurrection (Easter Sunday, the Octave and the Easter Season), His Divine Love for us (Divine Mercy Sunday and Good Shepherd Sunday), His Ascension into Glory (The Feast of the Ascension) and then closing out the entire story line, the birthday of the Church (Pentecost). The only part of the entire salvation story line that is about us are Good Friday (when are sins put Our Lord on the Cross) and Pentecost (when the Church receives the ability to act on the Great Commission).

Your ridiculous proposal to rename Ascension Thursday/Sunday breaks from the theme of the season…Christ’s triumph over sin and death. It detracts from the celebration of the Christ’s glory.

Third, (someone help me on this one) I seem to remember that there is a Sunday when the Great Commission is celebrated. It’s called Mission Sunday. I seem to remember that it is in October. That’s your day if you are so hung up on “Shapeshifter Sunday.” Don’t mess with the Pascual Season.

Finally, there are two days in November where the Church prays for its members. Those are All Saints Day (when the Church celebrates the Church Triumphant) and All Souls Day (when the Church prays primarily for the Church Suffering and to a lesser extent, the Church Militant).

 

[Catholic90]

This language of place is, according to the Pope, inadequate to describe the realities involved, since it is tied to the temporal order in which this world and we exist." (see http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2HEAVN.HTM.

I believe something wonderful and important happened on Ascension day and that people of that time described it in terms that meant something to them but that today lose their impact by directing people away from Christ presence in the world and our role in the continuation of His mission. Remember, the only thing I am suggesting is a “name change” from “Ascension Sunday” to ???.

Well, of course our language is inadequate to describe heaven! (As is our language to describe God, btw!)The something wonderful that happened on Ascension was that Jesus literally ascended into the heavens. How does today’s celebration of Ascension lose its impact? For whom?? No name change is needed. Leave it alone.

 

[PacoG]

There is only one thing that I am trying to “invent” and that is a new name to replace the label “acension”. I do not believe that a name/label developed from a third century world view and cosmology helps lead people into the “Salvific Mysteries” that I do celebrate and treasure. If a litergy is not about people’s needs what is it about? If the language used does not lead people into the meaning of the litergy whose needs are being met? Oh well, I think change will happen since we are members of a living church (Thursday to Sunday change) but I morn for those who will miss the true meaning of Christ in the world and our role in his continued mission because of language and labels that fail to communicate.

I think Eucharistic Prayer III best says the importance of the Ascension in-and-of-itself: “Father, calling to mind the death your Son endured for our salvation, His glorious resurrection and ascension into heaven.” In other words, by it being mentioned in the Eucharist Prayer, the Ascension event is important. The Ascension is a biblical event that is part of the mystery of our salvation. That is what we celebrate: Our Lord’s ascension into Glory and his taking of his place at God’s right hand and his return to Heaven to prepare of a place for us. Once again, the focus is on what God the Son has done for us. The Great Commission is a secondary part of the Ascension event.

I honestly don’t think that a tradition that is as old as the Church, a tradition that celebrates a event that is so important that it is one of the recitations included in both the Apostles and Nicene creeds (“He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father”) should be changed because your priest put a new spin on the event in his homily.

We are Catholics. Our church relies on tradition. Tradition that is based on truth. We don’t swing and sway with fashion of the day.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I believe something wonderful and important happened on Ascension day and that people of that time described it in terms that meant something to them but that today lose their impact by directing people away from Christ presence in the world and our role in the continuation of His mission. Remember, the only thing I am suggesting is a “name change” from “Ascension Sunday” to ???.

So Christ didn’t really ascend, but something else happened and the crowd of witnesses decided to make up a great tale about Jesus flying away? What else could have happened? When something has been consistently held for twenty centuries as true and literal, the burden of proof is on you.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

… they are states of being of a spirit (angel/demon) or human soul, rather than places…

True, they are not places as defined in our physical world, but in the spiritual sense, they are as much places as can be defined in a context outside time and space.

I believe something wonderful and important happened on Ascension day and that people of that time described it in terms that meant something to them but that today lose their impact by directing people away from Christ presence in the world and our role in the continuation of His mission. Remember, the only thing I am suggesting is a “name change” from “Ascension Sunday” to ???.

What else could have happened? Did He ride off in a white Cadillac? No blasphemy intended, but what else could Christ have done? Were the 'Q" redactors (quelle or Star Trek, take your pick) trying to conceal the secret trapdoor He escaped through? Jesus is God and can leave by whatever means He chooses, including transgressing the laws of physics (who made those?). He is not a shape-shifting North Carolina plat-eye.