Renewal of Vowels for marriage not valid in Catholic Church

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Dear Friends,

My heart is breaking as I write this post. I thank you in advance for reading
this entire story and trying to help me in my search for answers. My parents were married many decades ago upon learning they conceived their first child out of wedlock. In that day, my father was Catholic and my mother was not. I do not believe that my father at that time was regularly attending mass or penance. Nor were his father and mother who were consumed by alcoholism through the young lives of their children. My father had not returned to the church until some years later after my brother and I were old enough to begin receiving the sacraments, my father felt he should go back to church and take his children and raise them in the faith. However, he was confronted with the issue of his
marriage to my mother who did not want to become Catholic. My father took all of
us one evening on a family outing to another local Catholic church so that he could
speak to the priest there and ask him some questions about this. My parents
wanted to be married in the Catholic church, but the church not only refused them,
they told my father he could not even receive the sacrament of penance or holy
communion ever again. Despite this my father took my brother and to church,
worked with the local priest to have us baptised when we were 10 years old, then
made us also attend Sunday School so that we would be able to have our First
Sacrament of Reconciliation and our First Holy Communion. At that time, I was too
young to understand what was happening. I continued in my Catholic training until
my father lost desire to continue going to mass and neither my brother or I went through confirmation.
Fast forward to year 2011, my parents are celebrating a milestone marriage anniversary. Upon attending my daughters (their oldest granddaughter) wedding this year, my father felt once again inspired to renew his faith and return to the Catholic church and begin going to mass. In addition, he and my mother wanted to try once again to have a wedding type service to renew their vowels in the Catholic Church. The priest they are working with is well past retirement age, but still serving this parish. He assured my father since he hadnt attended any other Catholic church or any church at all, his membership remained active. The priest agreed at first to do their renewal of vowels. Upon initially interviewing my parents, he asked them explicit details about their current physical intimacy in their marriage among other questions. Highly uncomfortable, my parents answered him because they respected he must have needed this information. He told them he needed a few things, an original marriage certificate from the courthouse where they were married and they needed 2 people to meet with him, to testify to their character. This was completed. Now several months after their initial interview, my parents have been faithfully attending mass every week and excitedly planning this service. They have been so happy and excited to be a part of the Catholic church to and have this ceremony. This was very special tine for my family to be at the church all my aunts and my father.This past week my parents decided that since the last person went to meet with the priest to attest to their character, they should go and find out costs of having the service to pay for the church use and organist, etc. None of this had been communicated to them after all these months. The priest, after learning they wanted to invite all of their friends and townspeople, the priest became highly upset. He expressed with great anxiety and scolding that they were only being permitted a quiet small ceremony no more than a few guests, my mother was to wear a normal dress, not anything like a wedding gown, and there would be no wedding march. My parents explained they did have to order invitations, and are already printed. He wanted to know exactly what was worded on them and scolded them again. He then called a few of his people, and told my parents they are to do nothing more with the church for now until they hear from him. My parents are distraught. They didnt know they were doing anything wrong. The amount of judgment and lack of concern is very concerning to me. Even more concerning to me is that my father has received no instruction to renew his faith sacraments, he still has not gone to confession and does not receive communion; nor has my mother been asked to join the Catholic church. I am now concerned that not only is this ceremony not going to happen, but that my father will forever give up on the church and his faith in Christ:crying:. I am also alarmed by this priest. I understand he has protocol he must follow. But for heavens sakes, why not talk to my parents about these protocols, and help them understand? Also, if my father were to pass away, which is of concern to me that he is ill and may be dying, that I will not feel comfortable that this Catholic priest or the church has any concern for him and will deny to perform a funeral service for him, especially since there seems to be no concern to help him renew his walk of faith. I am praying with many tears over this. It seems absolutely wrong to me that they would be treated so harshly and without compassion. Please help me understand why this may be happening and is there anything I can do to help? I have considered making a request to meet with this priest to act as a mediator and try to smooth out the situation, but I fear by his emotional reactions that he may be unwilling to discuss to any positive resolution. My father has told me that if this priest refuses to do the service, he does not want to try to appeal to the Bishop, of which I recommended, he says that even if the bishop helped him, he
felt there would be daggers behind his back and he would rather leave the church.
Please help! :crying:
 
Dear Friends,

I am also alarmed by this priest. I understand he has protocol he must follow. But for heavens sakes, why not talk to my parents about these protocols, and help them understand? Also, if my father were to pass away, which is of concern to me that he is ill and may be dying, that I will not feel comfortable that this Catholic priest or the church has any concern for him and will deny to perform a funeral service for him, especially since there seems to be no concern to help him renew his walk of faith. I am praying with many tears over this. It seems absolutely wrong to me that they would be treated so harshly and without compassion. Please help me understand why this may be happening and is there anything I can do to help? I have considered making a request to meet with this priest to act as a mediator and try to smooth out the situation, but I fear by his emotional reactions that he may be unwilling to discuss to any positive resolution. My father has told me that if this priest refuses to do the service, he does not want to try to appeal to the Bishop, of which I recommended, he says that even if the bishop helped him, he
felt there would be daggers behind his back and he would rather leave the church.
Please help! :crying:
I would say…go make an appointment with this priest…do not go as an attack…but as seeking to understand…you need to know for your faith and for your understanding. Do not let this be a stumbling block for you. And God Bless your father for bringing you up in the faith anyway.👍
 
I agree with Annabelle.

Just as an fyi to hopefully help you understand what was going on - the uncomfortable questions about intimacy were (probably) because if your parents were abstaining (or were to agree to from this point until their marriage was regularized), then, as I understand it, your father could go to Confession, then participate in the rest of the sacraments. If not, then your father at least, as a Catholic in an irregular (perhaps currently invalid, someone else could answer that I think) marriage, would be committing grave matter and perhaps mortal sin depending on his level of knowledge etc. It is likely that this is the sort of thing that the priest is worrying about.

I do not know if the priest’s desire to keep it small is standard in these situations, and I am somewhat surprised that the priest was less than charitable in communicating this desire to your parents. It may be that he was simply under a lot of stress, or he could simply be a grumpy guy. There is probably someone on the board here who could share their experiences, but if it is difficult to find out what’s going on and asking the priest your parents are dealing with does not give you the answers, you may be able to ask a priest at another parish to simply tell you how these things generally work.

It is likely that the priest does care about your father’s spiritual state (and the Church definitely does), it may just be that things currently aren’t clear.
 
I am no expert…but I have seen vow renewals during Mass. I myself am awaiting a convalidation, which will NOT be a wedding style sacrament. It’s simply my husband and children (and a few friends) after Mass.
 
As I read you post I understand that your parents were not married in the Catholic Church so, in their case, this is not a simple ‘renewal of vows’, it’s an actual marriage since, as far as the Church is concerned, they are not married. Some priests feel that to have a full-blown wedding is giving scandal by admitting that the couple has been living in sin for decades.

What I don’t understand is why a priest refused to marry them when you were children. Had either one been married before which would have been an impediment to their marriage in the Church? Even if your mother didn’t want to convert, it should not have prevented their marriage.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like maybe the OPs parents were married in a civil ceremony orginally, not in the church? (OOPS! Other poster beat me to this observation) Is it really a renewal of vows, or is it the sacrament of marriage? I know a couple who had a civil marriage for many years, including having several children. He was Catholic, she had never been baptised, but eventually she went through RCIA and became Catholic. After that, they had a marriage ceremony in the church one day after mass. It was not a big extravaganza and was fairly short in duration. Evryone was in “sunday best” attire, but no white dress or tux. Personally, if I were in that situation, I would probably want to have a short and modest church ceremony (afterall, it did take a while to pay attention to the Church’s rules, n’ est-ce pas?) - but I would also have a big reception afterward (because there is certainly an achievement in having a great family to celebrate). Maybe they save the sentimental stuff for the reception?
 
As I read you post I understand that your parents were not married in the Catholic Church so, in their case, this is not a simple ‘renewal of vows’, it’s an actual marriage since, as far as the Church is concerned, they are not married. Some priests feel that to have a full-blown wedding is giving scandal by admitting that the couple has been living in sin for decades.

What I don’t understand is why a priest refused to marry them when you were children. Had either one been married before which would have been an impediment to their marriage in the Church? Even if your mother didn’t want to convert, it should not have prevented their marriage.
This would be correct, your parents are convalidating the marriage. I’m not certain of the priest issues. It should be simple, (2) witness statements for each that they have no other marriages, a copy of the civil certificate, a copy of your father’s baptismal certificate, and a dispinsation from the Bishop if your mother is not Catholic, a nuptiual inventory, all as if they were never married, since in the eyes of the church they are not.
Now sometime all this might take some time, and the priest could be worried that it’s not all done yet.
It should be a celebration after all these years that they are getting things right with the church again.
 
Your parents are married legally (they church recognizes this fact and, of course, all the children are considered legitimate by the church), however, they never received the Sacrament of Matrimony. This is a serious thing for a Catholic. Objectively, they have been living in a state of mortal sin. This does not necessarily mean that they are guilty of sin if they were not aware that they were in disobedience to Christ and the Church.

Unless one of your parents were previously married to someone else, there’s no reason they can’t now be married in the church. I wonder if the interviews with two people who know your parents was to be sure that neither of them was married previously. If your mother was previously married, she would have to go through the annulment process to see if she is free to marry your dad in the church.

At present your parents are in an irregular marriage due to “lack of form” since your father, who was Catholic, didn’t follow church law requiring him to get permission to marry a non-Catholic and to be married before a priest.

The fact that your mother isn’t Catholic is not a problem; the priest would just have to get the bishop’s permission, which is routinely given. The type of permission would depend on if your mother is a baptized Christian or was never baptized. The priest can’t arrange to marry them until he receives the permission.

They can now have a Catholic marriage ceremony if they wish.

Your mother does not have to become a Catholic at this time to get married in the church. She was not required to become a Catholic in the past either, just to agree to raise the children Catholic. The priest they consulted in the past was wrong about that.

However, since this would be a real wedding, not a vow renewal but the Sacrament of Matrimony which they haven’t already received, there might be a time of preparation required. This varies from diocese to diocese and is usually six months to a year but could be greatly reduced due to the age or state of health of your parents. However, the date should not be set until this is discussed. And it’s too early to print invitations until the date is set.

If your father is ill and in danger of death, the process may be able to be speeded up.

If your father should die, he could be buried with a Catholic ceremony and in a Catholic cemetary, even as things now stand.

Since your parents are not presently in a sacramental marriage, the priest might ask them to refrain from sexual intimacy until the wedding. They probably didn’t realize it but having sex with someone you are not validly married to is a mortal sin and the priest would want to protect them from that.

Your parents may have misunderstood the priest’s remark not to have anything more to do with the church for the moment. They should certainly continue to attend Mass. Your father can certainly go to confession before the marriage situation is set right. He would then be able to receive Communion if he and your mother are willing to refrain from sex until they receive the sacrament of Matrimony. If this is agreeable to your parents, your father should make an appointment with a priest (not necessarily the one he has a problem with) for the sacrament of Reconciliation asap. To prepare for this, he should look over his life up until this time before he goes to confession but the priest will also help him with this. The priest won’t expect him to know how to do it after all these years.

I would recommend that both your parents ask to take part in the RCIA program during the coming year, whether before or after the wedding. Even though your father is Catholic and even if your mother isn’t going to become Catholic, this would give them a good idea of what the Catholic Church teaches.

You talk about the priest having ‘protocol to follow’, it is much more than that. He has the responsibility of determining if your parents are free to receive the sacrament of matrimony. At first he thought this was a simple vow renewal and now he finds himself in deeper water and he wants to be sure everything is done right. You said he is past retirement age; he may be unsure of what procedure he should follow and need to seek advice. Also, he may be concerned with the possibility of giving scandal or embarrassing your parents but making it obvious that here is a couple in the church who aren’t validly married.

I don’t think there’s a church law that requires this to be a small ceremony or limits what your mother should wear. There’s no reason all your close friends and family should not be invited to rejoice with your parents when they receive this sacrament.

I hope this information helps you and your parents in some way.
 
Your parents are married legally (they church recognizes this fact and, of course, all the children are considered legitimate by the church), however, they never received the Sacrament of Matrimony.
Legally, the children are legitimate; where the Church is concerned, they will become legitimate at the time the marriage is convalidated.

Since we don’t know if the OP’s mother is baptized we don’t know if they will be receiving a sacrament or not. We only know that they will have a valid marriage if they have a convalidation.
 
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