Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship

[fkjuliano]

A couple of days ago, I watched a video entitled “The Cost of Abortion.” It shows quite graphically late-term fetuses that have been aborted, really murdered babies to anyone with a conscience, and talks about the total number of abortions since this grotesque practice was enshrined as a constitutional right, which stands at around 50 million.

After watching, some tears rolled down and I asked God to forgive me for my part in the American abortion holocaust, namely for paying taxes, since Planned Parenthood is partly funded by the federal government, and for voting for “pro-choice” politicians in the past.

But I feel that is not enough. To justify myself before God, I feel I must cut all ties with the nation that allows this, which means formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular authority. That would prevent me from ever living in the U.S. again, and probably even visiting, which would make it hard for me to see my parents and siblings.

One thing I must be honest about is that since I was born in Brazil, I have dual citizenship, so taking this step would not render me stateless; I would simply revert to exclusive Brazilian citizenship. That makes at least one aspect of renunciation easier for me than it would be for most others, and I certainly do not mean to imply that anyone else is morally required to do this; I feel that this is right for me, and that is all.

Honestly speaking, I suppose I am not really looking for advice since my decision is definitive and a promise has been made to God, though all constructive comments are welcome. What I am really asking for is your prayers. For my part, as long as I am alive I will continue to pray for God to bring the abortion holocaust to an end and for Him to have mercy on the country where I have spent over 20 years of my life.

Humbly in Christ,

Fabio K. Juliano

 

[flyingfish]

A couple of days ago, I watched a video entitled “The Cost of Abortion.” It shows quite graphically late-term fetuses that have been aborted, really murdered babies to anyone with a conscience, and talks about the total number of abortions since this grotesque practice was enshrined as a constitutional right, which stands at around 50 million.

After watching, some tears rolled down and I asked God to forgive me for my part in the American abortion holocaust, namely for paying taxes, since Planned Parenthood is partly funded by the federal government, and for voting for “pro-choice” politicians in the past.

But I feel that is not enough. To justify myself before God, I feel I must cut all ties with the nation that allows this, which means formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular authority. That would prevent me from ever living in the U.S. again, and probably even visiting, which would make it hard for me to see my parents and siblings.

One thing I must be honest about is that since I was born in Brazil, I have dual citizenship, so taking this step would not render me stateless; I would simply revert to exclusive Brazilian citizenship. That makes at least one aspect of renunciation easier for me than it would be for most others, and I certainly do not mean to imply that anyone else is morally required to do this; I feel that this is right for me, and that is all.

Honestly speaking, I suppose I am not really looking for advice since my decision is definitive and a promise has been made to God, though all constructive comments are welcome. What I am really asking for is your prayers. For my part, as long as I am alive I will continue to pray for God to bring the abortion holocaust to an end and for Him to have mercy on the country where I have spent over 20 years of my life.

Humbly in Christ,

Fabio K. Juliano

Alternatively, you could see it as your duty to remain in the US and add your pro-life vote to the other pro-life votes in the hope of changing the law in America in the future.

 

[puzzleannie]

A One thing I must be honest about is that since I was born in Brazil, I have dual citizenship, so taking this step would not render me stateless; I would simply revert to exclusive Brazilian citizenship. That makes at least one aspect of renunciation easier for me than it would be for most others,o

And what is the law in Brazil? hopefully their tax money does not support this holocaust. and for anyone else who feels so moved, what country would you move to and how do you find one that first will accept you, and that also does not murder children with taxpayer money? and does that country contribute to UN organizations that promote abortin?

It is not an easy question.

 

[markomalley]

To justify myself before God, I feel I must cut all ties with the nation that allows this, which means formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular authority. That would prevent me from ever living in the U.S. again, and probably even visiting, which would make it hard for me to see my parents and siblings.

Since you feel it is your duty to have no part of a nation that allows this, as part of your self-justification before God, you are not going far enough.

If you truly wish to justify yourself before God, you also need to repay any type of material benefit you received from the US:

• If you received any education in the US, you should repay the amount that was spent on your education for the years that you were educated in this country
• If you benefited from any earnings that your parents had while in the US, you should repay that amount as well (as well as any earnings you got that had any connection to the US)
• If you ever traveled on a highway in the US or used an airport in this country, you should repay the proportionate cost of those facilities, as well
• If you have ever been treated by a doctor educated in the US, were hospitalized in the US, were treated with supplies or drugs either made in the US, developed in the US, or developed by a company with significant interests in the US (likewise, were tested by technology built by or developed in the US), you must provide reparations for the benefit you received there, as well (probably it would be appropriate for you to engage in several months of fasting and physical penance)

And so on. You need to be complete with your repayment for any benefit you’ve received, otherwise you will not be able to justify yourself.

Of course, you would not want to pay back the amount to the US, as that would just provide more material contributions to supporting abortions. I would imagine that a priest in Brazil would be able to identify an apostolate for the poor that would be able to make good use of your reparation.

In the future, you must also renounce anything American. Soft drinks, television, clothing designed by an American, automobiles built in, designed by, or that use technology that is American, as well. Don’t forget the Internet: an American invention. After all, you would not want any of your money to go to future abortions, either.

One thing you may not have considered: America is not the only place. You need to, before renouncing the Internet, review the abortion policies from any country with which you may have a commercial interest. Most European countries have pretty liberal abortion laws as do most former Soviet states. And you’d better not forget about China, with their one-child policy that has resulted in an unbelievable number of abortions. Japan allows abortion. Even India has a problem. You may even wish to check your other Latin American countries. If you truly want to justify yourself before God, you’d better not provide any material support to those other countries, as well.

If you wish to justify yourself before God as not supporting abortion, you’d better not provide any support to anyplace that allows and supports it: not just America.

That’s if you want to justify yourself before God.

Or you could do as many others here have done and let Christ justify you before God and accept that justification. In which case, your obligation is to try to live the Gospel through the Sacraments, preach the good news, and to try to convince society of the error of their ways, trusting God with the souls of those babies who were slaughtered at the altar of Moloch.

Of course, if you take the latter course, you would have to humiliate yourself to accept the righteousness that comes from God. Not nearly as self-satisfying as being able to proclaim your own **self-**righteousness, but at least it is doable.

But it’s your choice completely. And I would certainly not want to try to convince you from taking the course that you’ve chosen for yourself. I just want to make sure you understand all that you’ll have to do if you truly wish to take that course.

Have a nice day!

 

[kage_ar]

When you remove your ability to vote or to run for office, you will take your dog out of the fight.

I, for one, will fight for life every moment of my life.

 

[fkjuliano]

Since you feel it is your duty to have no part of a nation that allows this, as part of your self-justification before God, you are not going far enough.

If you truly wish to justify yourself before God, you also need to repay any type of material benefit you received from the US:

• If you received any education in the US, you should repay the amount that was spent on your education for the years that you were educated in this country
• If you benefited from any earnings that your parents had while in the US, you should repay that amount as well (as well as any earnings you got that had any connection to the US)
• If you ever traveled on a highway in the US or used an airport in this country, you should repay the proportionate cost of those facilities, as well
• If you have ever been treated by a doctor educated in the US, were hospitalized in the US, were treated with supplies or drugs either made in the US, developed in the US, or developed by a company with significant interests in the US (likewise, were tested by technology built by or developed in the US), you must provide reparations for the benefit you received there, as well (probably it would be appropriate for you to engage in several months of fasting and physical penance)

And so on. You need to be complete with your repayment for any benefit you’ve received, otherwise you will not be able to justify yourself.

Of course, you would not want to pay back the amount to the US, as that would just provide more material contributions to supporting abortions. I would imagine that a priest in Brazil would be able to identify an apostolate for the poor that would be able to make good use of your reparation.

In the future, you must also renounce anything American. Soft drinks, television, clothing designed by an American, automobiles built in, designed by, or that use technology that is American, as well. Don’t forget the Internet: an American invention. After all, you would not want any of your money to go to future abortions, either.

One thing you may not have considered: America is not the only place. You need to, before renouncing the Internet, review the abortion policies from any country with which you may have a commercial interest. Most European countries have pretty liberal abortion laws as do most former Soviet states. And you’d better not forget about China, with their one-child policy that has resulted in an unbelievable number of abortions. Japan allows abortion. Even India has a problem. You may even wish to check your other Latin American countries. If you truly want to justify yourself before God, you’d better not provide any material support to those other countries, as well.

If you wish to justify yourself before God as not supporting abortion, you’d better not provide any support to anyplace that allows and supports it: not just America.

That’s if you want to justify yourself before God.

Or you could do as many others here have done and let Christ justify you before God and accept that justification. In which case, your obligation is to try to live the Gospel through the Sacraments, preach the good news, and to try to convince society of the error of their ways, trusting God with the souls of those babies who were slaughtered at the altar of Moloch.

Of course, if you take the latter course, you would have to humiliate yourself to accept the righteousness that comes from God. Not nearly as self-satisfying as being able to proclaim your own **self-**righteousness, but at least it is doable.

But it’s your choice completely. And I would certainly not want to try to convince you from taking the course that you’ve chosen for yourself. I just want to make sure you understand all that you’ll have to do if you truly wish to take that course.

Have a nice day!

Thank you for your suggestions, but I fail to see the logic in them. I do not believe I have any obligation whatever to justify myself before the United States. My payment of taxes already did that. In fact, I consider that the United States would be morally obligated to refund that portion of my tax payments that was used for abortions, if I had not voted for “pro-choice” politicians in the past, as stated.

 

[Pat_Payne]

But I feel that is not enough. To justify myself before God, I feel I must cut all ties with the nation that allows this, which means formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship before a U.S. consular authority.

This sounds a lot like “I can’t change anything, so I’m taking my ball and going home.” I entertained thoughts of that for about a day once Obamacare became a fait accompli, but soon dismissed it, realizing that not only are TPTB not going to give a tinker’s dam about me leaving, that’s one less voice in opposition to them, making it that much easier for them to get what they want.
I’m sure, however, Planned Parenthood will cheer your decision, and would like most of us on these boards to take the same action.

That would prevent me from ever living in the U.S. again, and probably even visiting, which would make it hard for me to see my parents and siblings.

Renunciation of your citizenship does not forbid you to re-enter the United States, it merely strips you of all rights, priviliges and responsibilities (outside of any pre-existing obligation you may have in terms of tax [either through pre-existing tax debts, or if you own a business in the US] or military [if you’ve been drafted or enlisted, you can’t renounce to get out of combat duty, they’ll just keep you a private for your entire hitch then deport you]) of being a United States citizen.
"United States Department of State:

Even if they were not stateless, they would still be required to obtain a visa to travel to the United States, or show that they are eligible for admission pursuant to the terms of the Visa Waiver Pilot Program (VWPP). If found ineligible for a visa or the VWPP to come to the U.S., a renunciant, under certain circumstances, could be barred from entering the United States.

There is no flat-out ban on renunciants re-entering the US, according to that… you can enter like any normal tourist or other resident alien, so long as you have nothing that would automatically bar the Brazillian Goverment from issuing, or the US Government from honoring, a valid visa. If you take this action, nothing prevents you, realistically, from seeing your family and friends again.

Honestly speaking, I suppose I am not really looking for advice since my decision is definitive and a promise has been made to God, though all constructive comments are welcome. What I am really asking for is your prayers. For my part, as long as I am alive I will continue to pray for God to bring the abortion holocaust to an end and for Him to have mercy on the country where I have spent over 20 years of my life.

Then vote! Advocate! Write! Volunteer! Do something to change the structure! Don’t just go and sulk like Achilles, enraged at Agamemnon for stealing his favorite slave girl, or the consul Bibulus, who retreated to his home and issued pronouncements of bad omens every day after his co-consul, Julius Caesar, humiliated him in the Forum over a law of Caesar’s he opposed, or King Saul, who brooded in his tent and was finally upstaged by David! You have a mind, you have a pen, you have a soul, all of which I can see are well-honed. Use them!

 

[fkjuliano]

And what is the law in Brazil? hopefully their tax money does not support this holocaust. and for anyone else who feels so moved, what country would you move to and how do you find one that first will accept you, and that also does not murder children with taxpayer money? and does that country contribute to UN organizations that promote abortin?

It is not an easy question.

Abortions are unlawful in Brazil except in case of rape or when there is no alternative to save the life of the mother. Like many here, I believe even the first exception is unjustifiable, and the second one extremely limited, but I believe there is a qualitative difference because at least killing unborn babies is not enshrined as a fundamental right.

There are illegal abortions as well, and even though criminal penalties in general are lax in Brazil, essentially the law is enforced. In fact, there was a recent case in which an abortionist from the city of Campo Grande, having been indicted for multiple counts of abortion, was facing 30 years, the maximum sentence imposed by Brazilian courts. She took Judas’ way out and is now probably keeping him company.

 

[markomalley]

Thank you for your suggestions, but I fail to see the logic in them. I do not believe I have any obligation whatever to justify myself before the United States. My payment of taxes already did that. In fact, I consider that the United States would be morally obligated to refund that portion of my tax payments that was used for abortions, if I had not voted for “pro-choice” politicians in the past, as stated.

Actually, I am pointing out your obligations to justify yourself before God, not before the USA.

Sorry if that wasn’t clear with my prior post.

 

[ljubim]

I have considered the same. I am of Polish heritage and so I would go there, of course after becoming fluent. (There are just a few more exceptions than in Brazil, but it’s the only country in Europe with a future, basically.)

You don’t need to make all those crazy re-payments .

I’ve mentioned this to people and they’ve said, but you are the kind of person we need here! But what if this isn’t the kind of country I want to raise innocent children in? There’s a lot to say for staying to fight the fight yourself, but you cannot subject children to this fight, because unless they live like cloistered nuns in your house, they will see things that shouldn’t be seen so early even in line at the grocery store.

An allusion to my personal life: since God’s led me recently to being more devout, I’ve begun to get less spiritual fulfillment in my parish, and more in the Latin Mass. For a while I had thought it was God’s will for me to remain and keep Him company there, which I can only take for so long before being caught up in sadness and discomfort. So during the Mass today (a Latin one - a long drive!) I felt like God was telling me not to be afraid to come back very often - that this is my place in the world. This sounds similar to what you’re going through, and just as we can say that a traditional Mass isn’t for every devout Catholic, so staying in America is not for every good person either. There’s a time when it just gets to be too much.

God Bless you for toughing it out for so long. :hug1: You’re in my prayers!

 

[Dale_M]

One thing I must be honest about is that since I was born in Brazil, I have dual citizenship, so taking this step would not render me stateless; I would simply revert to exclusive Brazilian citizenship. That makes at least one aspect of renunciation easier for me than it would be for most others, and I certainly do not mean to imply that anyone else is morally required to do this; I feel that this is right for me, and that is all.

Fabio, you are expressing a sentiment which occasionally generates threads here at CAF. Although it is not my feeling, many people have voiced an interest in moving from the US to a country which is more in line with Catholic teaching. I’m not sure how serious the participants in these threads are… it may just be pipe dreaming. Language and employment are frequent barriers, as well as immigration laws.

However, you have the ability to act and seem determined to do so. I am sorry to see you leave, but wish you the very best.

 

[kage_ar]

Abortions are unlawful in Brazil except in case of rape or when there is no alternative to save the life of the mother.

Between those two loopholes, anyone who wants an abortion can get one in Brazil as well as the US. No difference. All the woman has to do is cry “rape” or “I will kill myself/be depressed” and there is a dead baby.