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I used the example of the thief on the cross because he was not water baptized. You said he was saved because of “baptism of desire” which is completely unbiblical. The reason he was saved is because of Romans 10:9.

Luk 23:42-3
And he said unto Jesus, (1.) Lord, (2.) remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, (3.) To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt (1.) confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and (2.) shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, (3.) thou shalt be saved.
But the thief couldn’t possibly have believed that God HAD raised Jesus from the dead, it hadn’t happened yet. None of the prophets of before Christ’s time who were shown the coming of the Messiah and believed that he would be raised from the dead were saved immediately - we don’t know for a fact that any of them were saved, why the thief?
 
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Eden:
Acts 22:16

arise, and be baptized, and wash away **your sins **(the Greek word is “apolouo” which means actual cleansing which removes sins), calling on the name of the Lord.
Will you address the use of the Greek word “apolouo” (actual cleansing removing sins) in Acts 22:16?
 
I used the example of the thief on the cross because he was not water baptized. You said he was saved because of “baptism of desire” which is completely unbiblical. The reason he was saved is because of Romans 10:9.

Luk 23:42-3
And he said unto Jesus, (1.) Lord, (2.) remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, (3.) To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt (1.) confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and (2.) shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, (3.) thou shalt be saved.
You have not illustrated how a “baptism of desire” is unbiblical. If someone were on their way to church to be baptized, but died in an accident on the way, this is baptism of desire. They desired to be baptized, but didn’t make it.

St. Paul in Hebrews 6:2 speaks of the doctrines of baptism in the plural (doctrinae baptismatum), implying the possibility of more than one form - the sacrament of course being one by its nature as in ‘one faith, one baptism.’

By the way, the “good thief” in Catholicism is also known as “St. Dismas”.
 
apolouo: to wash off or away

foreignword.com/Tools/dictsrch_aff.asp?menu=N&query=wash&src=BP&go=Translate&trg=CQ

This is a a literal removal or an infusion of cleansing, not an imputation or covering.

“Apolouo” in the Bible:

Acts 22:16

‘And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

1 Corinthians 6:11

And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.

And here the word is “loutron” (a ritual washing with water). St. Paul is writing about the “washing of regeneration” which is “poured out on us”, referring to water baptism.

Titus 3:5

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

www.scripturecatholic.com
 
Does your water baptism wash away this “wounded nature inclined to sin”?
Actually, a better word would be “regeneration”. Baptism does wash away sins, but the HS also regenerates the heart, so that a person is no longer a slave to sin.

I think maybe there is more to the role of baptism in God’s plan than you are giving credit:

1 Peter 3:18-21
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit; 19 in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience

Acts 22:16 – Ananias tells Saul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins.”

Titus 3:5-6 – Paul writes about the “washing of regeneration,” which is “poured out on us” in reference to water baptism. “Washing” (loutron) generally refers to a ritual washing with water.

Heb. 10:22 – “Having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.”

Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of an empty ritual.

Baptism brings about salvation, not just a symbolism of our
salvation.

Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after believing in Jesus?

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - people believe in Jesus, and then immediately are baptized. If accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is all one needs to do to be saved, then why does everyone in the early Church immediately seek baptism?

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. This text demonstrates the salvific efficacy of water baptism, even for those who decide to give their lives to Christ.

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins,” even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul’s acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.

Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias’ phrase “wash away” comes from the Greek word “apolouo.” “Apolouo” means an actual cleansing which removes sin. It is not a symbolic covering up of sin. Even though Jesus chose Paul directly in a heavenly revelation, Paul had to be baptized to have his sins washed away.

Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life.

1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.

Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ. Putting on Christ is not just symbolic. Christ actually dwells within our soul.

Col. 2:12 - in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ. It is a supernatural reality, not just a symbolic ritual. The Scriptures never refer to baptism as empty ritual.
What does this verse mean to you?

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
This is a good question. We all bear the consequence of the sin of Adam, though only Adam and Eve bear the guilt of their sin. We are under condemnation because of the fall. Christ reverses the effects of the fall by providing a way out. You know yourself that, although Christ’s work on the cross is efficacious to justify all, the free gift of righteousness does NOT come upon all men unto justification. It only comes to those that choose it.👍
You’re supposed to flock to Jesus for salvation. If you turn to Him faith, you’ve become a born-again believer and joined His Church.
You are right, that we are to come to Jesus for salvation. However, Jesus teaches that one must be born again from above, by water and the spirit. This (baptism) is what makes people members of His church.
 
What does this verse mean to you?

Rom 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.
This is a good question. We all bear the consequence of the sin of Adam, though only Adam and Eve bear the guilt of their sin. We are under condemnation because of the fall. Christ reverses the effects of the fall by providing a way out. You know yourself that, although Christ’s work on the cross is efficacious to justify all, the free gift of righteousness does NOT come upon all men unto justification. It only comes to those that choose it.
 
You mean everyone in the RCC. Christ’s baptism is that of the Holy Spirit. John’s baptism was of water.

Act 9:17
And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

Act 9:18
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

Luk 3:16
John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Act 11:16
Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said,** John indeed baptized with water**; BUT ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
I think we are all in agreement that Christ’s baptism is one that occurs with the Holy Spirit. This is not to be separated from water baptism.

Acts 22:16

16 Kaí nún tí mélleis Anastás báptisai kaí apólousai tás hamartías sou epikalesámenos tó ónoma autoú
from Interlinear Transliterated Bible

apolousai is washing with water. Paul was “washed with water, calling upon the Lord”. At this moment, the HS regenerates the heart of the repentent believer.

I am curious how you think that Jesus taught His Apostles to baptize? How was the baptism they did different from that of John?

He commands in the great commission that they teach everything he has commanded and baptize…:

Matt 28:19

19 Poreuthéntes oún matheeteúsate pánta tá éthnee baptízontes autoús eis tó ónoma toú Patrós kaí toú Huioú kaí toú Hagíou Pneúmatos
from Interlinear Transliterated Bible
Eden, was the purpose of John’s baptism to wash away sins? In other words, did John ever wash away sins through water baptism?
I have always wondered about the difference between the two Baptisms. Since the HS had not yet been given, I don’t think that regeneration could occur. Clearly there was a difference, because when Paul found a group of believers who only had the baptism of John, he had to lay hands on them so they could receive the HS. It is like they only got half of the sacrament, they had repentant faith, but had not rec’d the sealing of the HS.
 
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