Repentance and Forgiveness

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RickyJ

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I have a question about the teachings of St Alphonsus Liguori. He has been quoted as saying that persistent mortal sinners, exasperate the Lord so much that he no longer calls them to repent and leaves them to die in their sins. This seems to fly in the face of Divine Mercy, which states that no sin or sinner, no matter how serious or scarlet the sin would not be forgiven. Do you have any comment on this?
Thanks
 
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RickyJ said:
I have a question about the teachings of St Alphonsus Liguori. He has been quoted as saying that persistent mortal sinners, exasperate the Lord so much that he no longer calls them to repent and leaves them to die in their sins. This seems to fly in the face of Divine Mercy, which states that no sin or sinner, no matter how serious or scarlet the sin would not be forgiven. Do you have any comment on this?
Thanks
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This is absolutely false. God NEVER abandons us. Only we can abandon him.

You are making this assertion so the onus is on you to provide the documentary support for this claim.

It is not enough to say I heard, or somebody said, or he has been quoted.
 
I am not making an assertion. I am quoting a statement by Father Riperger on youtube in his recent post Spiritual Theology Series. I don’t have documentary proof I am asking a question based on what he said, not looking for criticism for having asked it
 
I know of a Priest, and I’m sure there are many -
who are exasperated - at hearing the same sins committed by people -
now - we get to the word ‘repent’ !
It means - to turn from.
People don’t.

The Old Testament - is FILLED with prophets - trying to warn others !
But - all for not. Thus invading armies - and horrors - and lamentations.
God wont destroy the world again by rainstorms -
but the wages of sin - especially persistent sin - is death.

Imagine the state of soul of such a person - like Dorian Grey.
 
RickyJ said:
I am not making an assertion. I am quoting a statement by Father Riperger on youtube in his recent post Spiritual Theology Series. I don’t have documentary proof I am asking a question based on what he said, not looking for criticism for having asked it
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We don’t know he said that or in what context he said that (if he did). Please provide his post.
 
this is not true. God continues to forive as long as we continue to ask, in confession.
 
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that youtube personality has some questionable and closely scrutinised goings on
 
I suspect it is this:

“God according to the words of Scripture, “Thou hast ordered all things in measure, and number, and weight” (Wis. 11:21) has fixed for each person the number of the days of his life, and the degrees of health and talent which He will give him, so He has also determined for each the number of sins which He will pardon; and when this number is completed, He will pardon no more.”

This was his conclusion based on Wisdom 11:21 by concluding that if all things are ordered in measure, number, and weight it also applies to sins. However that is a false conclusion and if he had cared to look at verse 23 which says "But you have mercy on all, because you can do all things; and you overlook the sins of men that they may repent."

The bottom line is that God loves everyone and will never abandon anyone. All sinners are called to repent and no matter how many sins a person commits God will forgive if the sinner sincerely repents.
 
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16 Therefore pray not thou for this people,
neither lift up cry - nor prayer for them,
neither make intercession to me:
for I will not hear thee.

From Book of Jeremiah
 
According to this site,On the Number of Sins Beyond Which God Pardons No More - Sermon by St. Alphonsus, in a sermon the saint wrote
"I intend to show in this discourse that when sins reach a certain number, God pardons no more. "

The saint continues " Should the Devil in reply, say: fear not, God is merciful; answer him by saying: What certainty or what probability have I that, if I return again to sin, God will show me mercy or grant me pardon?"

He ends the sermon with " You have sinned, trusting rashly in the divine mercy: the punishment of your guilt shall fall suddenly upon you, and you shall not know from whence it comes. What do you say? What resolution do you make? If, after this sermon, you do not firmly resolve to give yourself to God, I weep over you and regard you as lost."

I can see how someone could make the claim posited in the OP having glanced at this homily.

I do not agree with the premise, however, that a truly repentant soul cannot be forgiven. God’s mercy is infinite.
 
My impression from the quote is that the warning is against those who would say, “Oh I can just go ahead and sin and then at the last minute trust in God’s mercy”. God might not be receptive to that sort of attitude since we are always supposed to be working to overcome sin.

In any event, we have no way of knowing what the “certain number” might be or if God sets a different number for different people.

Just more of the old “hellfire and damnation” type preaching from an era when many people might only go to Confession or receive Eucharist a couple of times in their entire lives.
 
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

Romans 3:23.

For if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead you will be saved

For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation

Romans 10:9-10
 
The only unforgivable sin is the sin against the Holy Spirit. That is directly in Scripture. It is unforgivable because you are technically refusing God to work within you with His grace. Remember that the Saints were not infalliable. They may have been holy and wonderful examples, but they definitely were not excluded from saying things that weren’t quite hitting the mark. Don’t worry too much about it. Trust Christ’s words of Divine Mercy. I suggest reading St. Faustina’s Diary on Christ’s mercy if you are that worried about it. You should be able to find it in a document online. Just google it. God bless!
 
“For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,”

Is this what you’re talking about?
 
RickyJ said:
This seems to fly in the face of Divine Mercy,
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If your talking about st faustina divine mercy message, there’s always been a question mark and debate over it, as it was condemned by the vatican for a long time. It was only JPII who believed it and lifted it from being condemned, so its like who do you believe? the many popes who condemned it or JPII
 
thistle said:
God NEVER abandons us.
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Hitler? Stalin? serial murderers and pedophiles?
Its hard to believe God waits patiently for such people to turn their life around.
It is not for me to judge such people. Yes of course you are right. I shouldn’t. I should be focussing on my own sins and lack of a humble, repentant attitude.
 
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simonjosiah1 said:
If your talking about st faustina divine mercy message, there’s always been a question mark and debate over it, as it was condemned by the vatican for a long time. It was only JPII who believed it and lifted it from being condemned, so its like who do you believe? the many popes who condemned it or JPII
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The DM devotion, writings, and revelations were suppressed because of the poor re-write and translations of Faustina’s original work. When her original work was re-examined and properly translated the suppressions were removed.
 
goodcatholic said:
Hitler? Stalin? serial murderers and pedophiles?
Its hard to believe God waits patiently for such people to turn their life around.
It is not for me to judge such people. Yes of course you are right. I shouldn’t. I should be focussing on my own sins and lack of a humble, repentant attitude.
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I repeat. God NEVER abandons anyone. Only we can abandon him.
 
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